Hyper extension and anti flamatory gel.

[CharlieChuck]

So since loosing weight and slowly gaining my flexibility back (I got my front splits over Halloween) I have now noticed that I have very hyper extended knees. Like when my knees are locked back there is a very definite curve running from my hip to my foot and now I'm starting to notice pain on the outside of my knees, mainly my right.

 

Should I be holding back and stopping locking my knees back and opt for straighter legs or should I be doing something else instead? I was meant to speak to my instructor (Neil is an absolute darling, he is amazing.)about it today but I completely forgot.

 

Any advice?

 

Also I've been using bunheads muscle and joint gel and it is amazing but I'm running low and £15 for a small 10ml bottle is pretty expensive. Can anyone recommend an alternative?

[lyn]

Hm never tried gel for knee pain. But have years' worth of chronic pain and wayward ligaments to attest to the injurious potential of hyperextension! Though if the pain is on the outside of your knees.. do you also have varus knees/bowlegs? To help with hyperextension, like you mention, avoid keeping your knees  fully straight on a day to day basis, like just standing around or what not -- small thing but goes a long way. I keep my straight knees for ballet class only, but even then don't fully lock them.. make sure the rest of you is well pulled up so the force doesn't go to your knees.

 

congrats on the splits! Don't know if you're trying for a >180 split now, but if you were doing it by putting your front foot up on a pillow/block or something that wouldn't be good for your knees

[taxi4ballet]

My dd has slightly hyperextended knees, and has always been told not to pull back and lock them, but to pull up instead.

[Anon2]

My two told the same as Taxi dd. In fact it was a ballet teacher who taught my ds how to control his hyper mobile knees and ankles. He had been seeing a physio from a young age as joints so unstable he couldn't manage stairs etc. Physio was impressed with the stability he gained through ballet lessons with a good teacher. Still hyper mobile but now controlled, pain free and apart from orthotics splint free too.

I would say you need to ask teacher to look at your lines and help you to find the correct position.

[Anjuli_Bai]

One should never push back into a hyper extended knee.  The dynamic pull is upward through the thigh and into the hip.  Never lock back into the knee.

 

Pushing back on a hyper extended knee will not only weaken the joint, but will also displace your balance which is usually especially noticeable in turns.  

 

The knee is a vulnerable joint, being both weight bearing as well as highly mobile.  In addition it is a flange joint which is less stable that the ball and socket construction.  

 

The answer to the problem of pain is not a gel - but eliminating the problem.  A gel is a topical application and doesn't address the underlying cause.

[CharlieChuck]

Hm never tried gel for knee pain. But have years' worth of chronic pain and wayward ligaments to attest to the injurious potential of hyperextension! Though if the pain is on the outside of your knees.. do you also have varus knees/bowlegs? To help with hyperextension, like you mention, avoid keeping your knees  fully straight on a day to day basis, like just standing around or what not -- small thing but goes a long way. I keep my straight knees for ballet class only, but even then don't fully lock them.. make sure the rest of you is well pulled up so the force doesn't go to your knees.

 

congrats on the splits! Don't know if you're trying for a >180 split now, but if you were doing it by putting your front foot up on a pillow/block or something that wouldn't be good for your knees

 

Bunheads muscle and joint gel is amazing but it's expensive, I would try it as it's anti-flammatory. Dance direct does it but it's £15 for 10ml. 

 

It's practically drilled into me to pull up so it's natural to me. 

 

My next goal is to get my basic side split, I don't have them yet and then I'll work on my over split. Thank you for your advice. 

[CharlieChuck]

One should never push back into a hyper extended knee.  The dynamic pull is upward through the thigh and into the hip.  Never lock back into the knee.

 

Pushing back on a hyper extended knee will not only weaken the joint, but will also displace your balance which is usually especially noticeable in turns.  

 

The knee is a vulnerable joint, being both weight bearing as well as highly mobile.  In addition it is a flange joint which is less stable that the ball and socket construction.  

 

The answer to the problem of pain is not a gel - but eliminating the problem.  A gel is a topical application and doesn't address the underlying cause.

Thank you for you advice I shall keep this in mind

[Stitch]

I agree with all of the above cautions that should be observed for those with hyper-extendable knees.

That said, however, I think that this condition can actually be aesthetically pleasing as  the knee joint tends to "disappear" at extension.
In contrast to your condition, some dancers can't fully straighten their knee and their line appears weak.

Treat your anomaly like a gift - but be careful with it.  Beauty is rare and delicate - it's supposed to be.

[taxi4ballet]

Be careful with stretching into oversplits too - as you could be straining the knee joints too far back. My dd isn't allowed to do them (not that she needs to do much stretching anyway )!

[Anjuli_Bai]

I don't see the point of over splits.  

[CharlieChuck]

Be careful with stretching into oversplits too - as you could be straining the knee joints too far back. My dd isn't allowed to do them (not that she needs to do much stretching anyway )!

 

If, and when, I get to it it'll be only in the pressence of my tutor or a professional as to me personally it is not something that should be done on your own. Too many things can go wrong, especially that which you have listed. Some people, like your DD, will most likely just have it naturally. I bet her lines are gorgeous. 

[CharlieChuck]

I don't see the point of over splits.  

 

I think it really comes down on whether the dancer needs it. Some who aren't that flexible would probably require that extra bit more but when I see a dancer in an over split grand jete it doesn't look as nice as a grande jete with both legs at the same height. Does that make sense?

 

Like this here  is far nicer looking to me than this or this but I suppose that is just me. 

[Fiz]

I agree with you. The line of the other two is hideous.

[CharlieChuck]

I agree with you. The line of the other two is hideous.

 

I find nowadays people are loosing sight of what is naturally beautiful. It's why I'm not really a big fan of Russian style's, they try too hard and sacrifice their lines for height etc etc and most of the time it just looks horrible. Like take the high attitude for example, I just find that too much. As lovely as it is, it just makes me cringe. The classics are the nicest to me, it's why I prefer the R.A.D style over all the others. 

[sarahw]

I agree. I think the line between dancing and gymnastics is being blurred here. I am a big gym fan but I feel the artistry of dancing is lost with over stretches. Fine for gym but not for dancing.

[taxi4ballet]

I agree too, in a grand jete the dancer is describing an arc in the air, and oversplits kind of spoil the effect for me. Not that I would ever be able to do one!

[CharlieChuck]

I agree. I think the line between dancing and gymnastics is being blurred here. I am a big gym fan but I feel the artistry of dancing is lost with over stretches. Fine for gym but not for dancing.

 

I agree, I have always been amazed by Gymnastics and people always believe that they can do what Ballet dancers do but I have two Gymanstic friends who although are very supple cannot do pointe work because they lack the strength required. Both industry's are competitive and both Russian and the Chinese battle for the most flexible dancers but they forget Ballet and Gymnastics are two different areas and although may seem it, they are far from the same. Both have such amazing beauty but they are becoming far too alike. There is a girl on youtube I follow who is a gymnast but she does ballet as well and in one of her videos she explained that you need a different type of core strength, you need to be supple and limber for Gymnastics but elegant and strong for Ballet and I fully believe people are forgetting the difference between the two. 

[CharlieChuck]

I agree too, in a grand jete the dancer is describing an arc in the air, and oversplits kind of spoil the effect for me. Not that I would ever be able to do one!

 

The only time I will ever like when a dancer exaggerates her lines is in Swan Lake, I feel that is what Odette should be, or that is what I have perceived anyway. But in anything else I do not think it is necessary especially in Ballet's like Romeo and Juliet, Giselle and Coppelia. When I see a dancer playing Aurora that requires insatiable amounts of strong pointe work, I do not want to see crazy flexibility. It ruins it for me. I watched one version of Giselle once and you know the Act where the Corps hops along the stage in Arabesque, well their working leg was held higher than the 90 degree that I feel is perfect for that part and it ruined it for me and that was the part that made me fall in love with Ballet. 

[Anjuli_Bai]

 

you need to be supple and limber for Gymnastics but elegant and strong for Ballet and I fully believe people are forgetting the difference between the two. 

 

 

This has been going on for quite a while now, so I think there are many people who don't know there is supposed to be a difference.

[CharlieChuck]

This has been going on for quite a while now, so I think there are many people who don't know there is supposed to be a difference.

 

It just goes to show how ill informed people are, it makes me laugh when those who claim to know everything about Ballet believe Gymnastics and Ballet are the same when they're not. Like my back is very flexible but for the life of my I cannot do that Gymnastics move called the Scorpion, I cannot do cartwheels or back flips. Yet my two Gym friends can do that as easy as I can grab my foot by my ankle and lift it up to my shoulder. It just goes to show.