First Position: Ballet Documentary

[aileen]

Spanner, your DD probably has some more growing to do. Surely a child only reaches skeletal maturity when s/he has stopped growing.

[Anna C]

Gawd, she's already taller than me when she's en pointe!!

[aileen]

Doesn't standing on pointe add about 6 inches to a dancer's height?!

[tomuchtallent]

when i look at girls today and compare them to when i was younger they look alot more mature and older than their age.They seem taller and bigger,maybe it has something to do with life style changes over the years,but by 13 some of the girls these days look so much older.

[aileen]

My son attends a co-ed secondary school. I laughed at the informal class photograph that was taken a few weeks before the children started their new school. Many of the girls were a head taller than the majority of the boys and looked a good 2 years older as well. Some of these 11 year old girls looked like young woman. To me, many girls are a couple of years ahead (both physically and in terms of sophistication) compared to my generation so that an 11 year old today is like a 13 year old from the 1970s. Actually, on the radio today I heard an item on puberty during which it was said that in the last 15 years girls had started to develop a year earlier (9 and a half instead of 10 and a half) although periods were not starting earlier. Interestingly, there had not been similar changes in boys.

[Anjuli_Bai]

As I recall, the bones of the skull and heel are still fusing and ossifying into the 20's. I know I grew several inches after puberty. And wisdom teeth come in after puberty.

[CeliB]

When DS fractured two metatarsals this Christmas the consultant was particularly antsy because the fracture was on the growth plate of the bones. His concern was that if the growth plate fused this would arrest the growth of the bone leading to stunted metatarsals and hence maldevelopment of the foot- which he considered a disaster for a dancer. DS was at that point 14 and 4 months. Although clearly a fracture is major damage, the vulnerability of the growth plates of the foot bones is quite interesting....

[dancerbabe82]

True skeletal maturity doesn't happen until the early 20's... As for being on pointe in the UK 'later than other countries' - pointe work progresses much more rapidly once a dancer has secure strength in their technique. Theoretically a dancer who doesn't start pointe until age 14 could be at the same level as a dancer who started pointe at 10 by the time they're both 15, just because the older girl has much more strength and technique and can make the progression much more effectively. Conversely I've seen many young girls being put on pointe too early tottering around like giraffes, having lost all control of their centre and turnout....

[Fiz]

I've seen those that can't even straighten their knees, dancerbabe82

[tomuchtallent]

just wondering,at vocational school if there are dancers that are more advanced than others in pointe in the same year group, do they give them harder work to do or do they all do the same?

[Anon2]

All doing same pointe work but some in year group obviously more secure on pointe than others. Don't think this is related to the age they went onto pointe but more to do with their strength/turnout as Dancerbabe said, plus sudden growth spurts that sends their centre of balance off for a time.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Jane

[dancerbabe82]

As a 'school' trained teacher as well as as 'normal' dance teacher, I imagine that at vocational schools they have to give modified exercises to more able and less able students within one year group - Ofsted inspect vocational schools too and look for this in lessons.

[Anjuli_Bai]

Having taught ballet for many years in public school (USA meaning of the term - high school and middle school) as well as in a college, a university and private studio/ballet schools - there is a difference in how ballet is taught.

 

In the "official" setting of a school district, college, or university, the curriculum for the semester is written out - official- graded. The teacher works from a written out structured requirement. This works for subjects like literature, math, history, etc. It doesn't work as well for a subject like ballet because progress is so dependent on the physical variabilities of each student. The course objective might be to accomplish a certain proficiency - but an individual dancer might not be quite ready for it- or conversely way beyond it in one modality but not quite there in another. The student not quite ready for pointe this year - may be a marvelous candidate next year.

 

At one college in which I taught ballet was a three year course and after the third year students would continue to sign up for the third year repeatedly as long as they were enrolled in the college. This makes sense to a dancer - you keep going to class every day - you are never "finished." But the planned curriculum at the college automatically assumed that anyone repeating that third year was doing so because he/she had not progressed (finished) with the subject and thus automatically was given a "failed" grade.

 

In a private school/studio the teacher is much more able to construct the class work to precisely fit the needs of the students. The student having difficulty with accomplishing a double pirouette is given the time to work on it - and doesn't have to conform to a pre-written semester curriculum objective.

 

The structured setting of a pre-set curriculum is not able to handle these physical variables and is even less able to grade subjective areas such as grace, charm, artistic value, etc.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Anjuli_Bai

[Jellybeans]

As a 'school' trained teacher as well as as 'normal' dance teacher, I imagine that at vocational schools they have to give modified exercises to more able and less able students within one year group - Ofsted inspect vocational schools too and look for this in lessons.

 

I think that the vocational training is probably looked at differently! It is my understanding that they will all be taught at the same level because there is little advantage in learning anything ahead of anyone else. At vocational school they go back to basics in everything when they start and build from there.

[dancerbabe82]

I'd love to know what the OfSTED criteria is for the inspection of vocational ballet schools!

 

Some of the things they look for in academic lessons could theoretically translate into ballet classes (e.g. working towards a clear learning outcome/focus for each lesson, the use of continuous/regular self and peer assessment). As a ballet teacher I've sometimes taughted non-syllabus classes to 'seniors' and will adapt exercises to accomodate inter foundation, inter and adv students all in one group (eg battement fondu a terre, en l'air and en l'air en demi pointe) - this is what OfSTED would call 'differentiation' - thats kind of what I was getting at but I also know that they start at basics in year 7 so it does interest me whether they do differentiate in the ballet lessons?!

[Anon2]

When we have been invited to watch class all the students are expected to do the same exercises. Only those who are on off dance or on restricted dance don't complete the full complement of exercises. I think if the teacher gave exercises of differing levels to the students it would cause a lot of extra friction within in the class.

[tomuchtallent]

What about if a teacher wanted a single pirouette and 2 students could do very good doubles or triples?does this count?

[Anjuli_Bai]

What about if a teacher wanted a single pirouette and 2 students could do very good doubles or triples?does this count?

 

Doing a fine single pirouette is as difficult as one with multiple rotations.

 

I have a documentary of Baryshnikov in China. I remember one part especially when he was demonstrating in a ballet class (men's company class). He did a pirouette with ten rotations. One of the dancers asked what at first would seem to be a strange question - but actually the question is of great merit: "Can you do a single pirouette?"

 

Baryshnikov appreciated the question - and the intent behind it...and demonstrated a beautiful slow single pirouette that spiraled into a soft sustained ending and was actually much more memorable that one with ten rotations.

 

In class the student is trained to produce the dance/exercise sequence exactly as called for in the choreography given by the teacher. However, day to day class work also encourages experimentation and expansion of the learning base. But in a situation in which parents are invited to observe or the class is in a more formal setting - then the choreographic structure as given is exactly what must be produced.

[Legseleven]

I would hope that if a single pirouette is requested of a class in which all or most of the students can perform doubles or more, then the students would perform the requested single pirouette. The teacher clearly has a reason for specifying a single pirouette and that is precisely what should be performed.

[spooky]

When my dd was a JA/MA I do remember there being different versions of the pilates-type exercises for each of the different year groups in the same class and in MAs (mixed year 8/9) the year 9's had to do some barre exercises on demi-pointe while the year 8's stayed flat. Have also heard many teachers say with pirouettes - double/triple if you can manage it. This seems like a type of differentiation to me. Also what about the pointe class at our local dance school where those not yet ready to go en-pointe still attend but do the exercises on demi-pointe.

[alison]

I just watched this last night, and watched it with great interest, while maybe being a little appalled.  I was pretty shocked that dancers as young as 9 should be able to compete in an international competition of this kind (I'd expected perhaps 15 to be the lower age limit), and also to see the Israeli girl - Gaya? - performing on pointe at the age of, I think 11.  I thought she performed very well, and might have a bright future ahead.  Ditto Miko was one who really communicated to me in a couple of her pieces.

 

I found the amount of concentration on stretching rather shocking: surely it'll end up damaging ligaments and things, won't it?  But one of the worst things for me was seeing younger dancers what Clement Crisp has referred to before now as "o'er-parted": trying to dance "grown-up" solos with little understanding of the demands of the role, let alone how technique and musicality can add to it (unlike most of you on DD, I don't actually spend much time watching ballet students dance, so I never know whether my expectations are set too high by watching the professionals do it).  Is this common in ballet competitions?  Something else that disturbed me was that, given that presumably the dancers all brought their recorded music with them, many of them didn't seem alert to the nuances in the music - flourishes not timed to hit a certain note, and so on.  How many times can they have rehearsed to that same piece of music?  Are they not really listening to it?

 

And another thing: I'd always understood that one of the greatest benefits of taking part in these sort of competitions, regardless of your results, was the chance to get coaching from professional dancers and teachers.  We saw no sign of that here, and I don't know whether that was simply because the filmmaker decided not to concentrate on that aspect, or whether YAGP doesn't offer it at all.

 

I am of course, generally, concerned about the sort of pressures heaped on the dancers: "your future career depends on this", "lifting the family out of poverty", all those sorts of things, which can lead to the dancers dancing more out of duty than out of love.  When I think of all the obviously slower-achievers in the ballet world I've seen over the years, I wonder whether those types of dancer might not ultimately do better in the long run.

[victoriapage]

Actually I think most of them go for the chance to be seen by a large group of professionals all at once, who could help you later if so inclined. Rather than go to see them etc.

Edited September 17, 2013 by victoriapage

[pas de chat]

I have also seen this documentary, DD wanted it for her Easter pressie so we ordered it from the US on Amazon.   After purchasing it I then read an article about it and thought oops this isn't for DD.  We watched it together in the end and DD didn't like it.  She thought it was quite sad and uninspiring.  I completely agreed with her but the documentary is certainly worth a peek!  I believe the boy from South America graduated from RBS US and now has a contract with ENB.  Miko has moved to Europe and does all the usual high profile competitions - not sure the others.

[Dance*is*life]

I saw Michaela DePrince dancing with Dance Theatre of Harlem a few months ago.  She was very good. 

[toursenlair]

I saw Michaela DePrince dancing with Dance Theatre of Harlem a few months ago.  She was very good. 

She has just joined Dutch National Ballet's Junior Company