wildflowers Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Wow! Well done thequays - shall look forward to that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Thanks the quays, I would so like to see this film even with the -toddlers and tiaras- slant I think it should be good and I so enjoyed "Jig" time for a good ballet based documentary I think... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin64 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I did watch the first position trailer on youtube but did anyone else click on the related film of a 9 year old Lada Sartakova winning 2nd place at the YAGP 2012 in Paris with a solo en pointe? Sorry I couldn't get a link to work but good gracious...9 years old!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Good gracious! She puts some of the "I am a ballet dancer and and I wish to show off on Britain's Got Talent" types to shame! it really narks me when that happens, because there are plenty of other ballet outlets in the country for them. What on earth was the girl who won like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Lada is the little girl who was put en pointe at five or six, if I remember rightly. Goodness only knows what state her feet will be in later in life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin64 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Spanner, Is it usual for girls this young to be en pointe in some countries then or is this little girl a child protegee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I know some teachers (in many countries) put girls en pointe earlier than I would be happy with - around 9 or so - but I've never known anyone be put en pointe as young as Lada. She is at school in Russia and her teachers have put many videos of her on Youtube. She definitely seems to be their chosen pupil but I do worry about her long term health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 She is amazing though and looks very happy. She leaves most 9 year olds standing even if she was in flats. I believe that the Japanese put their children en point earlier than us Westeners. The question is do these countries ballet dancers get the jobs as they are so advanced, or more is the question no wonder the Royal Ballet 6th form snap them up. Why wouldn't they, as they are amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 i wonder what an x-ray of her feet would look like... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybeans Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Some of these videos definitely have the wow factor but, when you break them down, the technique is not wonderful. For their age, yes, they are amazing but I wonder how they will progress when they pick up bad habits by doing too much too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I remember reading somewhere that the earlier you start on pointe, the earlier you have to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Amazing or not, I can see no good reason to put a 5 or 6 year old en pointe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I find videos like that quite disconcerting.. No matter how talented a child is, I really can't believe that they are physically mature enough for pointe work at such a young age. I'm surprised that YAGP allows children this young to compete en pointe and I don't think it shows the competition in a good light. In this country, children are not allowed to compete en pointe in dance festivals until they are 13. (At least that's been the rule in all the festivals we've ever been to, and I know that's the rule for the All England finals.) I presume this is for the safety and well being of the children. I'm surprised that when even small local competitions take this stance an internationally reknowned competition like YAGP does not have similar rules. I suppose it's possible that there are some differences in the age at which people of different nationalities reach skeletal maturity, but I struggle to believe that that difference is a large one. Yes, the little girl in the video does look happy, but what does that mean? Children (and adults!) enjoy all sorts of things but just because something makes us happy doesn't mean it's right, or good for us. A child of that age is, in my opinion, highly unlikely to be able to understand the potential long term effects of pointework at such an early age, and I doubt she is making a truly informed decision. I think organisers of competitions at all levels should be protecting children and discouraging this type of practice by refusing to accept entries from very young children en pointe. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Lada is the little girl who was put en pointe at five or six, if I remember rightly. Goodness only knows what state her feet will be in later in life. Yes,Spanner.I remember seeing videos of her on You tube too at that age.The vast majority of people were commenting how fantastic she was, etc. Which of course, was true. I commented that personally i think it is irresponsible of any reputable dance school to permit someone so young to be doing pointe work,no matter how talented, or how ever much both child and maybe parents wanted it. The school blocked me from making any further comments about their Youtube channel. Speaks volumes to me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I do think she is good, but I agree with the other posters.It is criminally irresponsible to put a child that young on pointe. If she'd done it in flats I am sure it would have been just as good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I agree to put any child en point is irrisponsible. As mentioned children cannot make these kind of decisions. But I did think that little girl was very good, appeared happy and would have done just aswell on flats. Being honest though there are so many aspects to ballet such as turn out, standing on tip toes that the body definately was not designed to do. My daughter complains regularly abouts bits and parts of her body aching at only 15yrs, what will she be like at 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybeans Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Some of these videos definitely have the wow factor but, when you break them down, the technique is not wonderful. For their age, yes, they are amazing but I wonder how they will progress when they pick up bad habits by doing too much too soon. In my post above, I was trying to offer a different perspective. To me, it goes without saying that children should not be en pointe and this topic has been debated over and over. Although it looks amazing because of her age, I, personally, did not think that Lada was that good because she has obviously picked up bad habits from doing too much too soon. My point was that I wonder if she will be able to compensate for those as she progresses or if they will become ingrained and hold her back. Probably had she concentrated on dancing in flats then she would be amazing. Regardless of the effect on her feet, Perhaps her talent has been wasted by going en pointe too soon. Only time will tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophika9899 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I so agree with you spannerandpony. Yes, she's impressive but I didn't find her that good either. She has the right "look" and figure and she's a delightful performer but she looks as if she's spent too much time learning the steps in order to perform and not enough at the barre doing the bog standard, sometimes mundane routines that all kids have to do which form the basis from which to build ballet technique. If you look on you tube you will also see her perform a Black Swan solo. She's 9 for gods sake! She doesn't have the emotional maturity for those sort of roles . She should be performing more "childish" roles - dolls, fairies or whatever. It's not so much that she shouldnt be on pointe(and I agree, she shouldn't ) it's more that she's been pushed way ahead of what is right for a child that age. I don't wish this on her but I believe she'll be utterly sick of ballet by the time she's fifteen. I really hope not and I hope she finds a teacher who will advise her to stop all the performing and go back to being a little girl and to practising. Sorry to sound like a total killjoy/fuddy duddy but I feel almost sorry for her. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin64 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Do you think that her teachers only teach her and not have regular classes with other students? It does seem strange that teachers would go against what is considered safe and best practice to put her en pointe. But as has been said why does a competition like YAGP allow it? They would be giving it the seal of approval by awarding prizes which then sets a precedent. It does seem like a huge amount of pressure on such a young girl. Everything is so extreme nowadays it feels like there is no room for good or hard working but only for these extremes..how young or thin or bendy a dancer is or how obsessively pushy are the parents or teachers!! oh dear I am really having doubts whether DD can get anywhere with such fierce competition. And yes I know that this sort of thing is not the norm but DD is getting to the age/stage at thinking about the future and I am feeling a bit disheartened today. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 My dds new ballet teacher who is Russian agreed that 9 is to young and she likes to start at 12ish but she took her students afew months ago to a competition in Paris and the 10 year olds were on pointe! She said if any of the students want to go next year she feels that she would have to start them younger to stand a chance! I have to say that 9/10 over here seems to be the average age from what i have seen.I think its to early but talking to the international community it seems that most countries start about the same age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The French mum of a girl at dd's school says she went on pointe at 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I just can't see that the average 9 year old's bones are hard or strong enough for pointe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 A lot of the bones will still be cartilaginous and won't have formed proper attachment to ligaments (according to doctor brother-in-law). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't think you can say a single age when it's acceptable to go on pointe. It is down to the individual child's readiness. My DD and a couple of her friends who were serious about ballet and did 4 lessons a week + associates went on pointe at age 10. However they did specific metatarsal exercises to ensure they had the strength in their feet and only started with 10 minutes a week. Some of the other girls who weren't so into ballet and did only one lesson a week, didn't go on pointe until they were strong enough at 13 or 14. It is very common to put girls on pointe at around 5 or 6 in Japan/China etc.Some of them cope very well and have long successful careers and can be found in top ballet companies around the world including UK. Certainly they stand out when they join schools like RBS/Elmhurst against the UK students and this is often seen as 'unfair', but I wonder what the reaction would be if the UK started putting 5 year olds on pointe? suspect we don't hear about all the ones who don't cope very well. I think there should be an age limit for performing on pointe in competitions and am disappointed that such a prestigious international competition as YAGP would allow a nine year old to go on pointe - sends completely the wrong message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I find it quite interesting that the Prix de Lausanne (the only ballet competition that I had ever heard of before my 'ballet mother' days) has age categories 15-16 and 17-18. No over developed pre-pubescents need apply... I would be fascinated to know if there are any statistics about what the very young YAGP winners go on to achieve in later life... Personally I thought that the 9 year old looked rather shaky and 'flappy' (I don't know how else to describe it but it was like a lack of coherence and grounded-ness) compared with the older 14+ dancers. Like it was only by chance that she didn't at some point fall lose her balance and fall over.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Quite hard to decide when the are ready - much easier to decide when they're not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 A lot of the bones will still be cartilaginous and won't have formed proper attachment to ligaments (according to doctor brother-in-law). What else is there to say? It's not about the readiness of technique or strengthening the muscles of the feet or even a particular teacher's opinion - it's about the growth and cohesion of the bones - of the very foundation - the hardness of the bones. One can't argue with the maturation of the skeleton. And that doesn't change whether one comes from China, Japan, Britain or the USA. Yes, there are those who venture onto pointe at an early age with no apparent harm. But the harm can show up many years later. Who - as a parent or a teacher - wants to take that chance? Is such a chance worth it if the child as a woman ends up with years of arthritis, bunions, hammer toes, etc. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 This reminds me of Margot Fonteyn. Not that she started pointe work too early,because i don`t think she did. But the fact she carried on dancing until her 60`s. After so many years of doing pointe work her feet were crippled with arthritis and she needed daily injections. So,what on earth are young people`s feet going to be like if they start pointe work so young? Not that they will still be doing it in their sixties,of course. But starting it so young can surely not be good for the health of their feet,long term if they turn professional,and dance en pointe until,maybe in their early forties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Not just the feet that they have to worry about though. With the athleticism required in ballet today, it's the whole skeleton. I doubt any ballet dancer starting out now will still be dancing fully at 40, let alone 60, unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I find the idea of 5 and 6 year old girls going on pointe grotesque, however keen, talented, mature etc they are. I feel differently about 9 and 10 year olds, though. Girls physically mature earlier these days and some 9/10 year olds will be doing quite a lot of ballet. By international standards girls in the UK seem to start pointe work quite late and I feel that this must put them at a disadvantage when they are auditioning for 6th form places. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Margot Fonteyn literally couldn't walk in her last years. From above: "Girls physically mature earlier these days " Physical maturity - such as on onset of puberty is not skeletal maturity. I doubt that has changed over many millenium. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I thought that skeletal maturity WAS linked to the onset of puberty. It has always been my understanding that girls do not grow very much after they have reached puberty and in the UK the average age of puberty (by that I mean girls starting their periods) is now 10. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't think so; my dd has had a massive growth spurt since January, a full year after she started pointe at 12, yet she is now 13 and a half with no sign of starting her periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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