Anna C Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 One of dd's Associate Teachers once said "We don't teach "performance". We teach technique until it's so ingrained in the muscle memory that it then frees the mind up to concentrate on the artistry. The "performance" follows naturally." I found that so interesting. By "performance", I don't think of a fixed smile, or a toothy grin - I think of it as someone sharing a love of ballet with the audience, even if the audience is made up of one person. It's having the solid technique and the maturity to open up and really *dance*, rather than just doing the steps. If that love of ballet is there - and it isn't always there - I believe it can be brought out and shared when the student is ready. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I think taxi4ballet has a point. Like many schools I have watching weeks where parents come to watch the class. This works well for juniors, but I found that once the pupils start to hit adolescence, around 12 or 13, either they don't tell their parents or else they somehow have an illness that day. So in the end I stopped it for more advanced classes. Luckily I have many opportunities for performances so the parents do get to see their offspring dance regularly, just not in class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophieschoice Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 I don't watch the classes all the time - we are only invited once every now and then. I totally agree that I am too involved and need to take a step back. That is one of the reasons why I wanted to post, to get some objectivity from you all! No offence taken. Because of my heart being very protective of my DD I am extra worried about doing the wrong thing. I don't want to lead her to make any decisions just because they are what I want her to do. I have to be careful of what I say as she could take my opinion on board which isn't right. I will wait and see how she does for the next few months I think. We don't have to make any decisions until its time for her to re-enrol after Christmas. Thanks again for your valuable input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngatheart Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Spohieschoice, you need to (very subtly!) try & find out whether your DD is actually losing interest in ballet as suggested by Aileen above, or whether the problem is down to "fear of failure" i.e. "if I don't try to prepare for any more ballet exams, I won't find myself in this horrible situation of being told I'm not good enough any more". How you deal with the situation should be different depending on which of these situations it is. If it is that she has truly lost interest, you need to respect her decision & let go, however hard that is. It may not be for ever - sometimes you have to give something up before you realise how much you miss it & start remembering how much you used to enjoy it. However if she does still love the dancing itself, but just feels too upset by the current stressful situation, it may be time to look at speaking to the teacher or even changing schools. From what you say, there seems to be a "culture" among the girls of being afraid of corrections, which would very much concern me. It is possible that the teacher is unaware of this and would be upset if she realised, or it may be that she is well aware & just expects them all to toughen up! Both types of "shouty" teachers exist. However if it is the latter, this school doesn't sound a good place for your DD to be. Re the performance - if she really is serious about addressing the problem, the most important thing is for her start trying things outside her usual comfort zone. (A small step at a time, not "in at the deep end" BTW!) However it is interesting that she is talking about preferring sport intensives - i.e. something with no element of performance. This could be seen as a retreat from the problem into something "safer" for her, which could either be a temporary thing to try and replenish her confdence or an indication that she doesn't want to, or believe she can, work on developing her performance skills. Again you will only find out which by talking to her. But please please please don't "project" your wants and dreams onto her - you should be helping her explore her own feelings about where she wants to go with her dancing (or if she wants to quit), without any fear that you will be angry with her, disappointed in her, or that you will disregard what she is saying & try to force her down a path that is wrong for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 youngatheart, be fair: sophieschoice is acutely aware that she may have too much influence over her daughter's decisions regarding ballet. Her daughter has obviously not got to the stroppy stage yet when her mother doesn't know anything! I think that sophieschoice comes across as very caring and sensitive to her daughter's feelings but perhaps a bit of a worrier - which many of us are, including me. Parenting is tough and it's always hard to know when to intervene on behalf of one's child and when to tell your child, in the nicest possible way, that s/he needs to 'suck it up' or get on with it, or whatever. I'm actually one for sucking it up (as some of you will have gathered) but if there was ever any bullying I'd be up at the school in a flash, and I tell my daughter to drop any friends who don't make her feel good about herself or seem to take pleasure in her disappointments. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well, I have to disagree with the teacher who says: " "We don't teach "performance". We teach technique until it's so ingrained in the muscle memory that it then frees the mind up to concentrate on the artistry. The "performance" follows naturally." I think technique is performance and performance is technique. They go hand in hand. While it is true that technique does become ingrained and thus the years of training gives the dancer the necessary strength and skills to control what ensues.....performance is never absent from the classroom. Hence, "dancing the barre" is a worthy and necessary goal from day one. Taught that way, the student sees performance and technique as one entity - not two separate things.. If, according to that teacher, one should wait until technique is ingrained before performance qualities are addressed (naturally or not) - how long would that be? Since it takes approximately 8 to 10 years to produce a technically vocationally proficient dancer - should performance qualities be ignored until that time? The audience lives in that mirror. The mirror is not there for the sole purpose of the dancer to see what she/he is doing - but to allow that "audience" to see the dancer. It is not just a mirror - but a window. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 How true Anjuli ! And I must point out that the RAD marking system includes marks for Presentation, (which includes expression and quality), Musicality (including both keeping time and also response to music) and Use of Space. Dancing is very definitely not just about technique and you can't hope to suddenly become a "performer" overnight once you've mastered the footwork. Also, the quality of the movement as a response to the music is actually what completes the technique. For example, you can't perform a waltz step properly technique wise if you don't understand its quality. I like to ask my pianist to play the waltz music staccato (which she finds very difficult to do!) and my pupils always cringe at how awful it sounds. Oh, I point out, but that's how you all dance it! Nuff said......... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 If, according to that teacher, one should wait until technique is ingrained before performance qualities are addressed (naturally or not) - how long would that be? Since it takes approximately 8 to 10 years to produce a technically vocationally proficient dancer - should performance qualities be ignored until that time? How familiar this sounds - my dd had just such a teacher for the best part of ten years - ingrained technique, step by step, each dance a series of exercises put together. Fortunately for the last couple of years she has been at another school... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 DD (almost 11) has had no instruction on 'performance' (apart from smiling) until private lessons this year. She is a naturally reserved child, and was a bit disappointed at 'only' getting 80% in her Grade 3 exam as she worked so hard on her technique. Now that her private lesson teacher (an RAD examiner) has talked to her about performance, and explained that even the examiner is looking for emotional engagement, we both suspect that her mark was affected by her 'restrained' approach to dancing. I'm not sure when this would be discussed if she was just in normal classes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I understand what you're saying, Anjuli, and I don't mean to imply that the teacher simply taught the steps, because she certainly didn't. But at that stage - IIRC dd was 11 or 12 - the teacher was more concerned with line, consistent turnout, posture, and using the body correctly than she was with smiling, for example. Steps and barre were always danced, however. As dd progressed, that teacher then encouraged more and more engagement with the audience, whether that was mirror or parents. She just felt that at 11 and 12, technique and line needed to be drummed in. Everyone is different but her teaching style worked so well for my daughter. Horses for courses, I suppose. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sophieschoice - if its any consolation - at 12 neither of my DDs enjoyed drama and neither of them went for school productions. They were just not interested and the interest has to come from them. Elder DD ended up taking GCSE and A level drama but has always preferred dancing on a stage than having to talk - still her idea of a nightmare. She went to vocational school at 16 so being shy and not doing any of these things did her no harm. She was in IF for about 20 months before she took the exam but stayed at the request of the teacher for another year afterwards (though she was doing intermediate as well) and she did not get bored, although I would have expected her to. Both of mine had private lessons for IF and grade 6 and I am sure they helped more with the confidence and performance side. Despite being at the small school for 10 years, the one on one time helped with the teacher/pupil relationship and talking though each section of the grade helped them understand how slight subtlety in movement, expression etc helped their performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngatheart Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) youngatheart, be fair: Sorry - in no way did I mean to be in any way unfair or insensitve. I am really surprised that people have perceived my post in such a way, as it was sincerely intended as a thorough & objective analysis of the situation from a complete outsider (as requested in the original post). The main point was simply that the correct diagnosis of the problem is required before any attempt at solving it should be attempted. The right remedy for the wrong problem could be very counter-productive in a case like this. Edited October 17, 2014 by youngatheart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardancer Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I feel so sorry for you both my heart goes out to you both.I do feel having a teacher who shouts and does not push your dd is having a negative affect. Maybe she is bored and needs challenging my dd was told she was not ready for grade 6 so I changed schools the teacher put her straight in intermediate she loved it, it was more challenging and she has never looked back. The teacher is fantastic and never shouts infact I think there is more laughing. Listen to your instincts you no your dd best.best wishes to you both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBallerina Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have just started RAD grade 6 and I'm finding it a big step up from grade 5! Our teacher says that it is the hardest grade there is and that once you've done 6, grades 7+8 aren't too hard. My older sister did grade 6 and is studying grade 7 and says its a lot easier. A lot of favouritism at my dance school too, you just have to work really hard to get good and be noticed. Learn excersises you need to know at home and pick things up quickly. I know this was posted a while ago but hope is helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 My daughter has also just started Grade 6 ballet and is finding it hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circe Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Have you got the syllabus DVD badballerina? No substitute for good training but the dvds can really help to consolidate what you are learning in class. You can pick them up via ebay or direct from RAD shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBallerina Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hi, nope I haven't got a syllabus DVD but there are videos on youtube where I'm learning the steps so that my teacher can give me corrections in class and I can focus on technique. We aren't doing the exam until February so I still have enough time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just be careful on youtube, students will not always perform the exercises correctly - in fact some teachers make mistakes teaching the settings (usually by accident) so you're best to refer to the RAD video. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBallerina Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yes! I found that out the hard way although there are videos of the DVD (getting for Xmas) so just waiting til then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's obviously nice to get good exam results in any walk of life, but it's not the be all and end all. My GDD has grade 6 (distinction) and is starting her intermediate and she is only just 12, but I reckon it doesn't matter what you have on paper, it's the on the day auditions that matter. Some of you forum members with far more knowledge and experience than I'll ever have may correct me if I'm wrong, but a piece of paper, ( although something to be proud of ) might not neccessarily convince any panel when it comes to audition time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Grade 6 is most difficult to learn. Stick at it and you will sail through the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Not grade 6, grade 4 but for some reason intermediate next. Edited November 12, 2014 by Vonrothbart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sozo Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I recently took my grade 6 exam and I didn't find that I hit a wall. I really enjoyed it! It is a lot more 'dancey' that the old grades 1-5. If you don't like charecter like me, that's also a lot more fun! I also don't think that your daughters shyness will affect how she does in her exam, shy dancers often do just as well. Also, there were a lot of girls in my class who took the exam who normally get merits . They got just as high merits as normal. We also took the exam in less time than most schools, only a year since we started so it did feel a little rushed! But still in our class of 7, three of us got distinction and the other 4 got merit. Personally I think your teacher was being very mean, as far as I can see there is nothing to stop you taking the exam and doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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