Stitch Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 The "bulge" never crosses my mind when I'm watching ballet ... That's right. But when you're a 10 year old non-ballet male, you definitely see the bulge. Then you might think to yourself, "Uhh … I don't think I'll be doing ballet". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I agree that the bulge is disconcerting for those not used to it but the shortness of the jacket emphasises it even more. It's not nearly so obvious when men wear Lycra shorts for sport. However, for me it's the actual wearing of tights which is the bigger problem - let's be honest, men in tights is considered by most people to be amusing and feintly ridiculous. It would be better if they could wear slightly looser stretchy trousers without the foot bit! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirrups36 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hmmm. So going along with the bulge and tights discussion, American footballers, sprinters, long jumpers, long distance runners, triathletes, swimmers, gymnasts, Divers etc would have a similar problem with recruitment. The bulge and tights is a distraction in the same way that making any comment about tight leotards for girls would be. I think it is an issue with dance itself that is the problem. It is an issue that parents have with dance and boys and gender stereotypes. Lots of things contribute. I was always quite talkative with other parents, as a male taking his son to ballet, but believe me it is often a quite intimidating environment! If men are uncomfortable taking their sons to ballet, the stereotypes are reinforced. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think it is an issue with dance itself that is the problem. Yes. Other dance forms such as ballroom dance and country/western dance also suffer from a shortage of males though not as great. But, on the other hand, Hip Hop dance is largely male dominated. In the antithesis of ballet, hope can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Lots of things contribute. You make a good point. Lots of things, in addition to clothing, contribute to the stereotypes associated with various kinds of dance - such things as style and choreography. From leaps to lifts, male ballet requires strength and stamina. Ballet purely extracts those attributes when seen from behind the scenes like during class and rehearsal. But too often the costumes and choreography shown to the public betray those very same attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Historically men have dominated dance. In some cultures women are forbidden to dance. All performing dance (of which I am aware) has roots in folk dance. Hip hop is a good example of a dance form which is now done as a performance but is still very close to its roots both in structure as well as time. Thus, it is more acceptable for males to dance. The further a dance form moves from its roots the more unacceptable or unable to as readily attract male participants. It becomes "rarified" and so is seen as feminine. The argument that ballet requires athletic ability will never overcome the perception that it doesn't. It's how it "looks" not how it "is." Reason seldom overcomes perception. Edited October 7, 2014 by Anjuli_Bai 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I agree JulieW, it's something that has never crossed my mind either, I'm too busy admiring the technical prowess of the dancers. Me too. Actually, when I was doing A Midsummer Night's Dream for O-Level English Lit we went to a production locally where the actors were wearing what could very loosely be described as "Elizabethan" dress, tights and all - not that dissimilar to the Poet in Les Sylphides without the jerkin, I'd think. My schoolfriends were all giggling and whispering about The Bulge, whereas I was just managing to ignore it entirely. And I wasn't even into ballet back then! In fact, the entire "grand reverence" was designed to show off the various aspects of clothing indicating wealth as the hand held a hat adorned with ostrich feathers - the arm moving down the front of the body to emphasize the lace at the throat and cuffs, jeweled butttons and fasteners, silk tights on the legs, jeweled shoe buckles. I don't think I knew that. Interesting. I agree that the bulge is disconcerting for those not used to it but the shortness of the jacket emphasises it even more. It's not nearly so obvious when men wear Lycra shorts for sport. I guess you weren't watching athletics maybe 15 years ago, Ribbons! Forget Linford Christie - Frankie Fredericks of Namibia was the worst: his country's kit, I think, was predominantly white, and he didn't appear to be wearing any support underneath. Not pretty ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Re: bulges I think the ballet tights are often pale and this exacerbates it. Athletes in black and darker shorts aren't as obvious. I think it would put off boys- especially in families/socio-economic groups where there is little experience of ballet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amum/Cathy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Bumping the thread as I'm bursting with pride. At my son's grammar school's GCSE awards evening last night he was presented with the Trophy for boys sport - for his dance! He's never danced in school but it turns out they are all very proud of him. The applause was amazing! 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 How lovely Amum/Cathy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happymum Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That's great! Well done to him and well done to the school for noticing his talent and hard work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon2 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Wonderful news Cathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That is wonderful Cathy, your heart must be bursting with pride. Jx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That is great news Cathy. Hopefully it will encourage the other boys at your son's school to see ballet as an acceptable pursuit for boys Re men in tights I have to say I completely agree with stirrups36- I don't think you can blame lack of recruitment on the revealing dress code- for example all no-one suggests Tom Daley should be diving in a tracksuits rather than super micro swim shorts (which are far more revealing than ballet tights plus dance belt!). I wonder if it's more to do with the emotion of the art form- in western society the male 'ideal' has for a long time been pretty repressed and emotionless and to show passion or high emotion has been considered a sign of weakness (and a particularly 'female' trait). And let's face it, a lot of the traditional, well known ballets are pretty hysterical (Giselle is a particular pet hate of mine for having such an asinine story!). If you didn't have a lot of knowledge about ballet and only knew about, say, Swan Lake (fairy story/luuuve story), Sleeping Beauty (fairy story with a KISS bleugh), Nutcracker (nonsense story, yet more luuve) you can see how a 10 year old boy might roll his eyes and give it a miss!! No amount of bleating about how male dancers are so strong and muscular is going to persuade a boy whose heroes are Assassins (as in Creed- you parents of boys know what I mean)/soldiers/pirates etc that prancing around with lacy sleeves aiming to marry a princess is a 'must-do'. Not quite sure what the answer is other than more exposure to more interesting ballets. But I can't see that happening whilst going to see ballet remains a minority entertainment. Something for the school dance curriculum perhaps? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirrups36 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Congratulations to your son Cathy. Effort = reward! (and to the school, that appears remarkably enlightened in comparison to some of the stories we read on this board). and WRT boys beginning ballet, seeing all the introducing ballet books that are predominantly (not all, there will be exceptions of course) pink in colour and content also don't help Celb. and in danger of going into another thread... Coppelia! what on earth? and Franz is an idiot! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think you make a very strong point CeliB. When I first met my husband I was very careful about the ballet I took him to first. He had never seen ballet before and I at least wanted him to appreciate the power and work that goes into it. I waited until Spartacus was on and he was amazed. From then on I have gradually educated him about the technique, why something looks good and how the seemingly effortless nature of it is actually the hardest thing to achieve. He has never been bothered about the tights issue and understands it's a uniform like any other job. He is our sons biggest supporter which still amazes me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well done Cathy and son and the school! No wonder you are so proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Congratulations! I wish him the very best in his future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Excellent, amum/Cathy! That's just great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amum/Cathy Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Thanks for all the comments and likes. I can remember asking the (male) head in year 7 why the girls had dance as a compulsory PE choice and the boys weren't even offered it as an option. He mumbled something about thinking it wouldn't go down well in this school. We live in a heavily rugby dominated area of the north so I feel this a significant moment 5 years on! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 That is such an achievement, Cathy! I am so pleased for you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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