ENB seeks new home

[chrischris]

According to the Agony and Ecstasy programme it costed ENB £100,000 per week to tour 4 years ago and so BRB has been handsomely rewarded for touring one extra week if that's all that it is required to do for its extra money. I think that Tamara is in a difficult situation. She wants to broaden the repertoire but realistically ENB struggles to sell anything other than the classics to the regions and in London ENB is competing directly with the RB whose own repertoire is becoming more eclectic. The Arts Council is under pressure to move more funding to the regions and both the London based ballet companies have felt the consequences of this. BRB, a smaller company than ENB, was more generously funded by ACE even before the latest settlement; it will be receiving over one million pounds more in grant aid than ENB from next year. 

 

This is what I meant ages ago when I said I didn't see the point of ENB; it can't really compete with the RB in London and there are other companies doing similar things in other parts of the UK. I sometimes wonder whether ENB is a strong enough 'brand' to be successful as a full touring company, and have wondered whether it should just merge with the RB and be the RB touring company, marketing itself as the RB and the dancers as RB dancers, which I believe used to happen before the BRB was formed? Of course it would be better to tour to places not covered by the BRB and NB.

 

I may be completely wrong though and even the RB is not a strong enough brand to be a touring company.

 

I would be ineterested to know whether the issues dicussed here also occur in New York, with two huge companies (ABT & NYCB) competing for limited funds (of course those funds are private and not a government subsidy). Perhaps a topic for another thread.

[alison]

To be honest I was really flabbergasted that they proposed to do less touring and more in London at a time when the arts vibe is to get out there and not be so London centred.

 

And that states it was ENB's proposal to replace a week touring with more in London.

 

Wayne Eagling, while he was still AD, made the case for more performances in London: it was, I think, economics pure and simple.  They have a better audience base there, so less likely to have unsold seats, they can charge more for tickets there, and there are no touring costs: accommodation, per diems, transport and so on.

Also, if Rojo wants to carry on challenging her dancers with new work, then really, given their audience, London is sadly pretty much the only viable place for that.

[Bruce Wall]

 

 

I would be ineterested to know whether the issues dicussed here also occur in New York, with two huge companies (ABT & NYCB) competing for limited funds (of course those funds are private and not a government subsidy). Perhaps a topic for another thread.

 

And if Rojo wants to carve out a separate identity within the city - akin, say, to NYCB; e.g., the house that Balanchine and Robbins built (with - lest we forget - the all-crucial love, money, understanding and support of one Lincoln Kirstein - without whom none of that vision could EVER have been created) - then (referring to post No. 35 above) - Rojo needs methinks to do it in London.  Certainly her first 'new' programme - the titular and exciting Lest We Forget - gave a pretty good suggestion as to the potential difference between the two institutions that might well be wrought, enhanced and celebrated in the future.  I would suggest - again IF this was to be Ms. Rojo's over-riding intent - and I'm not convinced it 'entirely' is - then a retreat from the ENB brand (with or without decorative Westwood frocks) to the original LFB logo might well be prudent lest the ENB nomenclature becomes an unwelcome and confusing noose in and of itself.  

Edited July 17, 2014 by Bruce Wall

[Jan McNulty]

This is what I meant ages ago when I said I didn't see the point of ENB; it can't really compete with the RB in London and there are other companies doing similar things in other parts of the UK. I sometimes wonder whether ENB is a strong enough 'brand' to be successful as a full touring company, and have wondered whether it should just merge with the RB and be the RB touring company, marketing itself as the RB and the dancers as RB dancers, which I believe used to happen before the BRB was formed? Of course it would be better to tour to places not covered by the BRB and NB.

 

 

 

When I first started watching ballet  in 1984 BRB (as Sadler's Wells Royal Ballet) already had its own separate identity within the governorship of the Royal Ballet Companies so I don't believe that point has been valid for the last 30-odd years.

 

There is, at the moment, virtually no overlap of the touring venues for BRB, NB and ENB.  NB toured to Southampton this year for the first time ever (currently ENB venue) and is also due there next Spring.  BRB started appearing in Nottingham last year with midscale and then performed Fille there this year.  Nottingham is currently an NB venue.  Both NB and ENB have performed in Milton Keynes for some years.  Obviously all 3 companies perform in London!

 

When I first started watching ballet, both ENB (as LFB) and BRB (as SWRB) performed in Liverpool and for 3 heady years in the early 1990s NB came too!  BRB had not been to Liverpool (or Manchester) since the Lowry opened in 2000.  Bradford also used to be quite a hub with all 3 companies appearing there.  I think the Arts Council was quite influential in dictating touring venues at one time (ostensibly so that more people had a chance to see ballet without having to travel to far) and that those divisions of venue are still largely extant.  In my early ballet-watching days, I mostly saw ballet in London.  In fact in BRB's first Nutcracker season in Birmingham I was sat next to a gentleman I had often seen but never spoken to at Sadler's Wells.  He said to me "I see you have come up from London for the day too" when I told him that, in actual fact, I had had travelled down from Liverpool.

 

I think one of the issues outside London is that the smaller Russian companies who continually perform Nutcracker, Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty have got a toe hold.  I still think that any company that has a Russian conotation has kudos no matter what the quality and people would go to see one of those rather than a homegrown company.

 

I don't think anyone has found the answer to growing the ballet audience in recent years.  I don't believe ballet is an elitist art form, we just need to persuade the bulk of the population that it is far more satisfying to watch than football!  And I also believe that there is still a place for ENB and hopefully Tamara Rojo is carving

that place ever more strongly.

[alison]

I think one of the issues outside London is that the smaller Russian companies who continually perform Nutcracker, Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty have got a toe hold.  I still think that any company that has a Russian conotation has kudos no matter what the quality and people would go to see one of those rather than a homegrown company.

 

And their (quite understandable) refusal to go beyond that little core of well-known ballets of course does nothing to grow the regional audience, which will tend to carry on believing that there is little if anything to ballet beyond a core of maybe half-a-dozen "Russian" ballet classics.  It's a vicious circle.

[BristolBillyBob]

This is what I meant ages ago when I said I didn't see the point of ENB; it can't really compete with the RB in London

 

I don't think anyone has mentioned this to Tamara, though; the impression I'm getting is that that is precisely what she intends to do.

 

This is what makes ENB so exciting for me at the moment. They have an Artistic Director who simply wants them to be the absolute best, which means setting her sights firmly on the Royal Ballet. Sure, taking on RB won't happen overnight, and Rojo knows this, and it may prove too lofty an ambition, but she seems to be in it for the long haul. She's growing the school, she's nurturing in-house choreographers (ENB Choregraphics), she's seeking out new audiences (e.g. Glastonbury), she has an envious depth of talent coming up through the ranks (provided they don't move to Antwerp *cough*), she's brought in top-name principals and promoted rising stars (Yonah Acosta), they have the name... So maybe the question is Can London sustain two of the finest companies in the world? Or, perhaps, Can a touring company become one of the finest in the world?

Edited July 18, 2014 by BristolBillyBob

[Jan McNulty]

And their (quite understandable) refusal to go beyond that little core of well-known ballets of course does nothing to grow the regional audience, which will tend to carry on believing that there is little if anything to ballet beyond a core of maybe half-a-dozen "Russian" ballet classics.  It's a vicious circle.

 

Absolutely Alison.  Many years ago I wrote to ENB and complained that Liverpool was getting Coppelia for the 3rd time in 5 years!  I got a lovely letter back that explained that Coppelia sold in Liverpool and nothing else in the Company rep did!

[Bruce]

Apologies - don't have the time to respond blow by blow. But...

 

- I think over time there will be ever increasing pressure on ACE, and from within ACE, to see their money used to good effect across the whole country and not mainly for the benefit of London.

 

- if ENB don't want to tour then let the money go to those who do. We are seeing some of that in this latest settlement.

 

- London doesn't need 2 great and large ballet companies - it needs lots of great companies to tour to the city and show of their best.

 

- SFB, Hamburg, Stuttgart, La Scala, Boston, Joffrey etc are great companies with international reputations. Its not where you are, its what you do. Look at what Forsythe did for Frankfurt.

 

- if ENB were to seriously look at new home then Bristol might be best in the South (cover South Wales as well) and Manchester in the North. Manchester/Salford has the whole Media City thing and it also where ROH were thinking of having a northern offshoot. But I don't think it's going to happen.

 

- Happy to see ENB take on the Royal artistically - but they dont have to live in the same city to do it.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Bruce

[aileen]

How well do all the various orchestras (I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head) do? The London based one which my son's violin teacher plays in seems to tour abroad quite a bit. Some of the venues that the ballet companies tour to (in the UK) are very large eg Manchester Grand Theatre and probably too large for anything other than Swan Lake and Nutcracker. Growing audiences is not easy but the theatres need to do more to promote the visiting companies and make the customer data available to the companies. It's not good enough for the theatres to send an e-mail advertisement a couple of weeks or a couple of days ahead of the performances. That's far too late. Sadler's Wells' marketing is the model that they should be adopting. Am I the only one who gets annoyed when theatres add an automatic donation on top of the booking fee? The Coliseum is even cheekier: you have to track back and remove the donation - which I do as a matter of principle as I think that it's service is so poor - you cannot just click to remove it as soon as it appears. This cynicism leaves a bad taste and is, IMO, bad PR.

[aileen]

I think that Bristol would be a better choice than Manchester. Manchester is only 40 miles (or just over an hour's drive) away from Leeds. Bristol is quite an 'arty' place which would probably be open to a more contemporary repertoire but, to my knowledge, does not have a major artistic organisation based there apart from the Theatre Royal. The south west would be very accessible. On the downside, moving to Bristol could be an artistic and financial disaster. Like it or not, many dancers, particularly those from abroad, want to live in London and ENB could find it harder to attract and retain really good dancers. More seriously, The Nutcracker at the Coliseum is crucial to ENB's continued existence and a similar season in Bristol is unlikely to be as profitable. It's an interesting idea and I wonder whether any one at ENB has considered a move to another city.

[capybara]

 It's an interesting idea and I wonder whether any one at ENB has considered a move to another city.

 

Although we are not privy to in-house discussions about this, one can be pretty sure that they have - alongside (surely!) thinking about partnership/residency arrangements with one or more other cities alongside London.

 

Happy to see ENB take on the Royal artistically

 

So am I and, in my view, they are already doing this in spades in terms of dance quality.

[Jan McNulty]

I think that Bristol would be a better choice than Manchester. Manchester is only 40 miles (or just over an hour's drive) away from Leeds. Bristol is quite an 'arty' place which would probably be open to a more contemporary repertoire but, to my knowledge, does not have a major artistic organisation based there apart from the Theatre Royal. The south west would be very accessible. On the downside, moving to Bristol could be an artistic and financial disaster. Like it or not, many dancers, particularly those from abroad, want to live in London and ENB could find it harder to attract and retain really good dancers. More seriously, The Nutcracker at the Coliseum is crucial to ENB's continued existence and a similar season in Bristol is unlikely to be as profitable. It's an interesting idea and I wonder whether any one at ENB has considered a move to another city.

 

 

I hate to be a pedant here Aileen but The Grand Theatre is in Leeds.  Manchester has the Palace (which was mooted as Royal Opera House North) and the Opera House, which are both part of ATG.  Although both these theatres have large auditoria the stages are not that big.

 

Bristol has a renowned theatre company in Bristol Old Vic, which is based at Theatre Royal.  I think the Bristol Hippodrome Theatre, where ENB currently appears, may be part of ATG but the Theatre Royal that hosts ballet currently is in Plymouth.

 

For any Company starting out in a new location there are going to be challenges in attracting and keeping a new audience and if ENB were to move lock, stock and barrel I expect the Company would require substantial help from ACE.  The idea of a "partner home" may be more practical.  Bristol could, indeed, be a good choice.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Janet McNulty
Edited to be clearer about Bristol

[aileen]

Thanks for those corrections, Janet. I couldn't remember whether the theatre company in Bristol was called the Old Vic or not, which is a bit bad as I went to university in Bristol - although it was thirty years ago. How would a partner home work? Wouldn't this just duplicate costs and greatly increase per diem expenses? There don't seem to be many theatres left in public ownership or owned by a not for profit organisation. I assume that local authorities and city councils just don't want the responsibility and hassle and prefer to give money directly to arts companies and let them sort out their own arrangements with venues.

[Jan McNulty]

The Lowry describes BRB and Rambert (amongst others) as partner companies.  In reality have no idea what that entails in practical and financial terms but the Companies do appear there on a very regular basis.

 

Perhaps we are lucky up North with theatres not owned by a big group - in Liverpool we have the Unity, Playhouse, Everyman and Royal Court.  In Manchester there is the Royal Exchange, Contact and Library, in Salford The Lowry, Leeds Grand, Sheffield Crucible and Lyceum, Bradford Alhambra to name but a few.

 

Going back to my post #45, I have just thought that stage size must be a real consideration for a large scale company.  Northern Ballet are more used to touring to venues with smaller stages than most and some of their productions look cramped.  If ENB were to move out of London and have a "home" theatre in their new location then that must surely be a consideration.

 

Whatever the outcome, I hope ENB emerge stronger than ever.  Although I see less of the Company than I used to they are the Company I first started following and I think the direction Ms Rojo is taking them in is making me as excited as I was about them in the mid 1980s.

[Pas de Quatre]

Still thinking of a move to the south, what about Bournemouth?  They already have a dance hub in Pavilion Dance South West, which is housed in newly converted space in the lower levels of The Pavilion Theatre.  The main theatre itself has a large stage and traditional flytower, just some of the backstage operations need updating.

 

There is already Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (although at present it is based at Poole Lighthouse which has a medium sized theatre and a separate concert hall within the same building.  BSO seems to act in some sort of partnership with Bristol, as all the concerts are repeated in both towns.

 

So within the connurbation there are three excellent theatres, large, medium and small.  ENB could still mount full size classics, but smaller offshoots could produce works at the other theatres ready for touring!

 

There is a very strong feeling locally that the BSO is "our orchestra" and is well supported - perhaps ENB should look to this sort of model!

[alison]

That might be an idea, although I get the feeling that from a public-transport point of view Bournemouth is a bit off the beaten track: trains-wise, you pretty much have to go to Southampton and then go along the coast via the New Forest to get there, which takes a while (it's certainly a long ride from London, I can tell you, unlike Soton). I believe there are trains from the Wales/Bristol area, but am not sure how frequent they are.

[LinMM]

Well train wise Bristol would be quicker to London than Bournemouth.

 

I'd be happy for them to have a main base in Bristol as presumably they will still be doing some shows in London which is where I would mainly go to see them anyway.

[Two Pigeons]

Given this time of financial constraint I wish ENB every continued success. However, they may be faced with the stark choice of find an accepting city who will support them or drastically reduce their ambitions.

 

I remember very well all the deliberations when it was mooted that SWRB should move to Birmingham. Thank goodness they went because for the last 25 years 60 plus dancers and all the support network have had jobs. Had they declined the offer it would not have been long before the company would have ceased to be.

 

The audience and the amount of public money for ballet is finite. ENB have done incredibly well to stay afloat for all these years but the Royal holds all the trump cards, not least the amount of broadcast coverage they are getting. I would love to see the annual broadcast of The Nutcracker or another Swan Lake be replaced by Le Corsair or something equally interesting but performed by another company. I cannot see that Tamara can possibly achieve all she wants under the current set up. I will be very happy to be proved wrong as it would be a great result for Ballet. We will see.

[alison]

Of course, since the press release specifies that ENB are looking for a London home, all this discussion about alternative cities, while of course interesting, is totally speculative.

[Pas de Quatre]

But you never know - we might plant an idea that will take root!

[Bruce]

Of course, since the press release specifies that ENB are looking for a London home, all this discussion about alternative cities, while of course interesting, is totally speculative.

I went back and read the property consultants press release again this morning and that struck me. Money/managment time is already being comitted to this way forward.

 

ENB is one of the nations touring company. When a touring company wants to do less touring its not a great sign.

 

Be interesting to compare the number of weeks of UK touring that BRB, NB and ENB do in a season.

[chrischris]

Given this time of financial constraint I wish ENB every continued success. However, they may be faced with the stark choice of find an accepting city who will support them or drastically reduce their ambitions.

 

I remember very well all the deliberations when it was mooted that SWRB should move to Birmingham. Thank goodness they went because for the last 25 years 60 plus dancers and all the support network have had jobs. Had they declined the offer it would not have been long before the company would have ceased to be.

 

The audience and the amount of public money for ballet is finite. ENB have done incredibly well to stay afloat for all these years but the Royal holds all the trump cards, not least the amount of broadcast coverage they are getting. I would love to see the annual broadcast of The Nutcracker or another Swan Lake be replaced by Le Corsair or something equally interesting but performed by another company. I cannot see that Tamara can possibly achieve all she wants under the current set up. I will be very happy to be proved wrong as it would be a great result for Ballet. We will see.

 

I think that is the key point. People talk constantly about ways to increase the number of people who go to the ballet and make it more accessible etc, and have been doing so for decades it seems. Does there come a point where you just throw in the towel and accept that it is a pretty niche art form that isn't hugely popular with a wide audience?

[Jan McNulty]

BRB tour to Sunderland, Plymouth, The Lowry and London twice a year.  They also do 2 weeks of midscale so that is 10 weeks per year plus occasionally Edinburgh (as next year) or Cardiff.  I make that 11-12 weeks a year.  This year the Company did a full week in Nottingham but reading the ACE report that is likely to go back to being a midscale venue.

 

NB tour to Sheffield and Norwich twice a year plus Hull, Bradford, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Woking, Canterbury, Southampton, Milton Keynes, Belfast, Nottingham and Manchester (off the top of my head) - so usually 15 weeks a year.  Some years they do additional dates too.

 

ENB tour to Southampton, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol and Milton Keynes - occasionally twice a year to some venues so say 6-8 weeks.

 

Please anyone correct me if I have left anything out.

[Bluebird]

 

ENB tour to Southampton, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol and Milton Keynes - occasionally twice a year to some venues so say 6-8 weeks.

 

Please anyone correct me if I have left anything out.

 

............and Oxford.

[Jan McNulty]

Thanks Bluebird.

 

In addition BRB usually does 7 seasons a year in Birmingham - 2 in Spring, Summer and Autumn plus the winter season, in total around 8 weeks so performing up to 20 weeks a year.

 

NB usually have 2 seasons at Leeds Grand and one at WYP and now one at Quarry Hill.  As with BRB, the seasons can cover more than one week so, say 5 weeks, making 20 in total.

 

ENB do 9 0r 10 weeks a year in London so in total up to 18 weeks a year?  ENB is the one I am least sure of.

 

I have not included the ballets for children that ENB and NB have been doing.

[restor]

ENB is essentially now a foreign company paid for by British taxpayers.

 

(Foreign dancers and a foreign artistic management and a foreign artistic style) .

 

 

There is a limited audience for ballet. No  venue visited by ENB  would not accept a visiting company touring the UK (at no cost to taxpayers). ENB with its subsidy is restraining the trade  of promoters who can not put a foreign company in these venues as the audience for ballet has all been taken by ENB.

 

ENB no longer serves its founding purpose and has not created a new market for itself.

[Jan McNulty]

Restor, your words are very harsh.  I have seen several of the Companies you tout and would not do so again!  Which of these Companies bring something other than the Tchaikowsky big 3, R&J and possibly Giselle?

 

I have not always liked ENB's rep but I do know that the performance and production values are excellent.

 

I think that performances at museums and festivals in this country is raising ENB's profile and that Tamara Rojo is taking the Company in an interesting, exciting, direction.  Perhaps she will be able to build audiences outside London who will appreciate a more varied rep.

[restor]

I agree the ENB production values and of course the dancers are good - so they should be with the millions they get every year. For decades there have been attempts to get an audience outside London for diverse titles other than the popular ballets mentioned but there is not an audience for them as ENB discovered with Manon for example.

[aileen]

You have come onto this forum and said much the same thing before, which you are entitled to, of course. As before, I am curious as to why you have such an axe to grind about ENB. All the UK ballet companies have many 'foreign' dancers and all of them receive millions in grants from ACE, with ENB receiving quite a bit less than the RB and BRB. Would you care to tell us who you are? You do not appear to be a disinterested observer with a genuine desire to have a discussion about the merits (and otherwise) of this company, and I conclude that you have some past history with ENB or someone at the company as your disapproval of ENB seems to be so vehement.

[restor]

 I have not expressed disapproval of ENB or any of its employees.

 

I have clearly stated that the dancers and the productions of ENB have a high standard - is there some discussion or question to be had about that?

 

It is the case that the majority ( unlike other companies) of the dancers and artistic management and now ballet style is foreign.

 

It is also true that they do not sell out on tour so the question I suppose is, should it continue to get so much taxpayer support? Could the taxpayer subsidy (about £25 per ticket) be better spent in providing other access to ballet productions for British taxpayers?

 

If I have asked these questions before I only repeat them because there has been no sensible engagement with them though some might accept that a fan site where people care about ballet is  the right place to look for such a discussion you seem to suggest that this  may not be the case.

[Two Pigeons]

Speaking as a tax payer who lives in deepest Worcestershire I think that ENB strives very hard to be an accessible company. In addition to their touring when they appear in London they do at least offer matinees. The average non-London balletomane has a far greater chance of getting to see them than they have for the Royal.

 

I agree with the point that the nation's ballet going audience has not grown that much over the years and I feel far too much is being stressed on the cinema relays from the Opera House as bringing in a new audience. It is undoubtedly a start but, without wishing to repeat myself, the pretty narrow repertory is hardly educating the public that much.

[aileen]

In what way is the 'ballet style' of ENB now 'foreign' and more 'foreign' than any other company? Only the Russian companies and Paris Opera Ballet can really be said to have a coherent 'house style' today and the signs are that that is changing especially at the latter since Millepied's appointment as AD. Your reference to foreign management is, I assume, a reference to Tamara Rojo's appointment which most people would regard as uncontroversial in terms of nationality given her many years of dancing in the UK in three different companies including ENB. Monica Mason (a South African) is a foreigner as you would see it and so is David Nixon (a Canadian) but you don't seem to object to them and neither do you object to the many foreign dancers at the other companies. In particular, I haven't seen you objecting to the three foreign principals which the RB appointed this year and so your point about foreign dancers at ENB is a smokescreen for something else. I can only conclude that you are a person who is disgruntled with ENB for some personal reason as your objections about size of grant aid and nationality of dancers do not stand up to scrutiny.

[restor]

I agree ENB is accessible yet it usually fails to sell out even with cheap tickets.

In general a narrow rep is all the public are willing to pay to go to notwithstanding  many efforts over many decades to broaden the appeal of classical ballet.

Should private promoters who bring  touring companies be given grants to lower their ticket prices rather than give such a large subsidy to ENB?. Some of the companies are smaller and some of a lower quality than ENB but they visit towns ENB does not & some are as good in quality.