Are we training too many dancers?

[rowan]

So...maybe fewer (maybe two) 11-16 vocational schools, but all places are fully funded. How would that go down?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

That already happens with RBS & Elmhurst. But they have very specific body types etc.

 

I think we still need the likes of Tring & Hammond fir those very talented dancers as those schools seem to be more open minded about shape. & size waiting for the effects of puberty etc. and after all there are 4 music schools in the scheme so why not 4 dance?

Edited June 18, 2014 by Picturesinthefirelight

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I'd like to see funding for other forms of dance not just classical ballet too

 

And why is MDS funding available from age 8 for music but not for dance v

[invisiblecircus]

And why is MDS funding available from age 8 for music but not for dance v

 

Perhaps for music there are fewer variables and it is easier to predict who will be successful. There is no concern over body type like there is in dance.

 

Also, there are no vocational ballet schools that take 8 year olds.

 

ETA: I don't think funded places are necessary for other forms of dance as it is not so important to start intense training at a young age like it is with ballet. It would be nice if places were available for other dance forms of course, but since funding is (very) limited, I think it makes sense to focus only on ballet at that age.

Edited June 18, 2014 by invisiblecircus

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I disagree. I think it is important in most(there are always exceptions ) cases to start good quality training at a young age for other firms of dance. You need a strong ballet, jazz etc technique for musical theatre & if you haven't been training intensively for several years you don't stand a chance especially as a girl of getting in a good college at 16.

[invisiblecircus]

I disagree. I think it is important in most(there are always exceptions ) cases to start good quality training at a young age for other firms of dance. You need a strong ballet, jazz etc technique for musical theatre & if you haven't been training intensively for several years you don't stand a chance especially as a girl of getting in a good college at 16.

 

There are a few schools such as Italia Conti and Sylvia Young that provide this kind of training from age 10/ 11 but the vast majority of sixth form applicants for musical theatre don't come from stage schools but are still adequately prepared. Also, these kind of colleges don't mind if you're 16, 18 or even older when applying. Being older is a disadvantage in ballet but can even be an advantage in MT because acting is so important and extra life experience of the older students can help.

 

Just my opinion of course :-)

[Picturesinthefirelight]

It depends what is available to you

 

Dd had two ballet classes, 1 tap class & 1 modern class available to her & it wasn't enough.

[Tulip]

Tring take children who are only eight into vocational school. I think they are treated as regular boarders with dance running alongside education.

[Tulip]

Tring take children who are only eight into vocational school. I think they are treated as regular boarders with dance running alongside education.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Hammond have a prep too.

 

RBS Asdocistes start at 8 don't they, & children are just as likely to be assessed out of school chosen at 11 for physical changes as they are earlier so why the anomaly.

 

I'm sure some of the musicians chosen at 8 don't make it either.

 

The ballet world is all very new to me though, music & musical theatre is more mine and dhs area.

[Ellie]

A personal viewpoint regarding the teaching and employment of students (and not related to funding) I attended Elmhurst in the 1980's and it was rather different to how it is now. Students were accepted on ability / talent as well as physique (probably similar to Tring, Hammond and the defunct Bush Davies) We were streamed in terms of classical ability, with assessments every year, not to 'remove children ' from the school, but to move them 'up or down'.Dance and drama studies were arranged according to ability (top set classical students had more ballet classes, those more able at commercial dance/drama more tap, jazz etc) But we all had to do everything. And in my opinion, every aspect of the training was top notch. Come 6th form the student would decide which course they wanted to specialize in (classical, drama, MT....subject to approval by the teachers) Sometimes there were surprises, eg, a superb classical girl would decide they wanted to switch to MT. Still, in the 6th form we had to do everything (jazz, tap, ballet, flamenco, drama) no matter which course we followed. From my generation the employment rate across the arts (classical companies, west end/cruises, actors, singers) was very good....I think that there is much to be said for a 'well rounded' artist.....and, value for money......x

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Sounds like a great training Ellie

 

My dd knows she wants to do MT. But also knows how important ballet is in the training of any dancer.

[tutoo2much]

I can think of countless students who have studied locally until they are 16 or 18, that have gone on to get funded places at colleges such as Laines, Bird and Urdang. Some being offered on-the-spot scholarships at the first audition.

[Legseleven]

With music there is also the possibility that an 8 year old wunderkind will be at professional concert musical level, whereas an 8 year old ballet prodigy has physical limitations as to their capacity for achievement at that age. Not only in relation to pointe work but just because an 8 year old dancer has an 8 year old's body and psyche and should not, at least in my opinion, be asked to perform adult repertoire. Just because some 8 year olds are relatively mature physically and capable of performing Esmeralda, Kitri etc solos (and some, sadly, may be en pointe at that age) does not mean that it would be appropriate for funding to be available to encourage this. As DD's examiner teacher says, just because something is possible does not mean that it should be done.

 

With musicians there are some instruments which require a more adult physique for ease of performance but there are also scaled-down stringed instruments etc available and some children may well be perfectly capable - in safety - of playing a full concert musician's repertoire at 8 (albeit that their interpretation will almost certainly improve as they mature).

[sarahw]

Pups_mum

I agree totally with your post. Very eloquently put.

[double trouble]

When my DD first started her full time training at LRBS we were just happy that she could pursue her dream, but then when u start looking into how hard it is to actually get a decent ballet contract and also having to probably move to another country it is quite worrying . My DD decided to give up her training last month !! We were upset when she made the decision but its her life. We now just have to worry about what she will do next. DD2 is going to BTUK in sep we feel they are offering more Versatile dance training as she hasn't got perfect ballet body and before we heard about BTUK she was considering MT schools . We will let her go and hopefully it will be right place for her but we also know its a hard life out there. Good luck to all of your DC but you never know whats round the corner , lets face it as lots of u have said its hard in lots of professions to make it but at least they can say they tried.

[Kat09]

Lots of luck to both of your daughters DT and well done you for letting them follow their dreams - I hope that both of their futures are bright.

[sarahw]

Double trouble

Your daughter has been very brave to make that decision. Very good luck to her, I admire her. I agree the employment prospects are frightening. And good luck tp your other daughter as well. You must be very proud of them.

[tomuchtallent]

There are far to many courses and dancers training in the Uk.Some of the courses are a waist of time with false hope.

I do believe that there should be many more British dancers in the top ballet companies.If we are training even 48 of the best in the Uk from year 7 up for every year group they must be as good as the rest of the world and should gain a contract in the Uk.Other wise it is a waist of the tax payers money.

[double trouble]

Thanks so much Kat and Sarah it has been difficult for her and us me especially as I loved watching her dance especially as at LRBS she had been in some lovely shows. We now have to move on and support her she has been to Danceworks in Ldn couple of times and enjoyed it so will hopefully dance still as hobby . Other DD is very exited about BTUK so we still have exiting times ahead.

[Lisa O`Brien]

It sounds to me double trouble that you have a mature young lady on her hands,who is realistic enough to know what is right and best for her. The very best of luck to her for the future.

[double trouble]

Yes I agree tomuchtallent but we havnt even got that many classical companies in England ! So that is why new graduates have to look at Europe perhaps they have more companies? But do agree that more British dancers need to be employed here

[double trouble]

Thanks the Quays

[tomuchtallent]

It is a amazing experience to work abroad.But there still should be more British ballet dancers working in the top companies in the Uk and not out of work.I'm sure they are talented enough!

If not(compared to the rest of the world)then there must be a problem with the training and/or to many ballet schools.

[Jan McNulty]

I thought this Guardian article may be of interest.  It highlights the benefits of a dance training (and career) in moving to a different area of work.

[invisiblecircus]

It depends what is available to you

 

Dd had two ballet classes, 1 tap class & 1 modern class available to her & it wasn't enough.

 

What about acting and singing?

[taxi4ballet]

4 dance classes a week isn't enough as PITF says - they do 3 or 4 a day at vocational school...!

 

You can't really count acting and singing unless your dc is mad keen on going down the MT route.

[primrose]

Lower school vocational students do an average two classes per day not 3 or 4. There simply would not be enough hours in the day to do academics as well as 4 classes.

[Tulip]

I remember it vaguely as ballet, jazz and contemporary, with other days being ballet, rep and tap. Can't quite remember?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Yes, she had a weekly drama class & singing lesson too.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I'm sure it varies from school to school & even from year group to year group but currently dd does 3 dance classes most days (includes tap & modern) There is one day where she does two classes & one day where it's just one.

[taxi4ballet]

Lower school vocational students do an average two classes per day not 3 or 4. There simply would not be enough hours in the day to do academics as well as 4 classes.

Still works out at ten a week though, way more than non-vocational students can fit in after school.

[Katymac]

DD has been exhausted this last year trying to fit it all in; even with Flexi schooling and studying on the train

 

There is little flexibility in 'traditional' schooling for the child who isn't 'typical' - dancing & GCSEs aren't mutually exclusive but they are hard to co-ordinate if the teachers don't respect the other discipline