afab Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) POB is a boarding school... But different cultures do different things and boarding schools in France close at the weekend! One needs a host family for the weekend but it applies also to French kids who live in the South of France too far to go back each weekend. And kids who don't live in the Paris area need a referent who can pick them up in case of a problem... Not easy for any family whether French or non French! No problem thequays, it's a common misconception... I just had a look at the list of end of 2013 school year and definitely foreign names there... Edited June 17, 2014 by afab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Lack of boarding facilities and the perceived language barrier - I am sure that if RBS, Tring, Elmhurst and Hammond had no boarding there would be fewer foreign applicants also. "We are training more dancers than could possibly earn a living as professional dancers, but that does not necessarily mean that we are training too many dancers. If you knew at 11 who would be the best dancer at 20 then we would train far fewer! In any sport there are a lot of people that try for professional careers that never make it for various reasons. Dance is no different" - I agree with this statement posted above. I know for professional footballers for instance, the top league teams have training academys for young hopefuls - my son's friend was 1 of 100 selected aged 10 and they cut numbers every year until for their 16+ full time training they had a team + 2 reserves. 1 friend made it through to 18 and did not get a contract at 18, another was injured at 15 and forced to stop football altogether Its also true of academic subjects and university courses though. How could you put a cap on the number of students based on how many jobs there are for doctors, scientists, lawyers, journalists, IT specialists? And not all degrees lead straight into a profession. My degree is in modern languages and only the smallest minority of language graduates go onto to become interpreters or translators and relatively few become teachers. And how many people stick with one job/career all their working lives? At the end of the day, training for dance or anything else is preparation for the real world and that is where the real work starts. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin16 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 At my private school, repeated bullying of different people for 5 years and this girl still has her scholarship. And she was continuing this threatening behaviour at 18. Nothing more than verbal warnings. The performing arts btec does not prepare you for an acting job. One person in my sisters class was slightly talented. My sisters both auditioned for the top drama schools but didnt get in, they were good. A family friend trained at GSA after 2 tries getting in, graduated top of the class and can't get a job. If someone that talented can't get a job it feels like the small colleges are giving students false hope to take money. It's good people have the opportunity to train, but the institutions should be honest with them about their chances and not dangle possible entry to courses after their very expensive 'foundation year.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouldDoBetter Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Coulddobetter, ideally top schools should monitor the progress and behaviour of recipients of awards. However, as Tulip and Hfbrew mention earlier in this thread, I have also seen people with DaDAs at a top school who were misbehaving and not trying. They said to other pupils they no longer wished to dance as a career, but were quite happy to be funded for 6th form, thus depriving others who would have been more deserving of funding. I am sure that this is inevitable. I suspect that the school are often not aware that pupils no longer wish to dance as a career. If the school is aware that they have given an MDS or DaDA award to somebody that has no intention of pursuing a career in the performing arts but choose to ignore it and do nothing about it then that is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 But these students must still be pretty talented and working pretty hard otherwise they would have been assessed out at some point, at least at the end of year 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Where do you get 300 graduates from if you are only talking about Ballet Schools? There are only a handful of schools that are specifically only training for Ballet at the top level. At graduate level there are usually only no more than a dozen or so left, where ds trained it was fewer than 10. . Hfbrew, as an experienced teacher, which schools would you say we're the top UK schools in ballet, contemporary and jazz? By top, I mean highly selective with good training and a reasonable prospect of a performing career if you remain uninjured? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 We've also come across the odd dancer who does not necessarily want to dance as a career but who continues with their dance training and a DADA simply because they do not yet know what they could do or would want to do instead. Yes Aileen they are talented but they cut classes, turn up late, are 'off sick' etc but they seem to know the system and just what attendance is required to meet DADA requirements and of course they work hard when assessments are due and for any performances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 At my daughters level, all the students are fully aware of how tough it is out there, never mind within their own studios amongst themselves. They go to top ballet performances etc, they are not blind they know what they are up against. The discipline and training has been tough, very little free time, with very little reward. But they are determined, focused and hard working all of them, by know if they didn't have these qualities they would have left. My daughter and her friends are very well prepared for the big world out there, they definitely have not been protected. Not many young people would be able to endure this type of discipline both physically and mentally. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hfbrew, as an experienced teacher, which schools would you say we're the top UK schools in ballet, contemporary and jazz? By top, I mean highly selective with good training and a reasonable prospect of a performing career if you remain uninjured? Well for just Ballet Id say Royal Ballet School, English National Ballet School, Elmhurst (obviously they also have contemporary etc too. ) Also Ballet West. And Central. For Ballet but also excellent all round training, Tring and Hammond . Have heard good things about Northern Ballet School too but have never had a pupil there. Other places (not specialising in Ballet) are Rambert, Laines, Bird, Millenium, Urdang and Italia Conti. I am sure others will add to the list and I am talking post 16 here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 2dancersmum, have those students been taken into companies? Tulip, I said that UK students / dancers would be protected ('shielded') if the schools and companies introduced quotas which restricted the number of international students / dancers which they could recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'd ad Arts Educational to HBrews list (the college not the school). They have an excellent track record of producing musical theatre dancers. Also Mountview but they are more known for actor/singers but produce good singer dancers with a good employment record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) But quotas in any country not just UK would be a fake sense of protection. Who would want to recruit dancers who are not the best? The solution is not in protecting by quotas but in making sure potential is developed to its best, isn't it? Edited June 17, 2014 by afab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 I agree that quotas are not a good idea, although in the past the RB (and I believe the RBS) could only recruit from the UK and the Commonwealth. That restriction must have been lifted when the UK joined the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Those who want a career in dance and have enough talent to get into vocational schools, stay the course and graduate, do so knowing the entire time that professional slots are very limited. So, what happens to those who are not able to get a contract? Are they living on the streets? I bet most of them manage to either get into some other course of study and/or some other occupation connected to dance or not. If they ended up living on the streets, I would say - yes - there is a problem. They are young enough to adapt to the conditions they find and survive - probably even thrive - or at least find a way for themselves. What did British dancers do when Diagelev died and there was literally no where for those magnificent dancers to go? They - lead by some wonderful people like de Valois formed a company - and thus eventually the Royal Ballet. I don't mean to make it sound simple - I know it was very hard going. But sometimes necessity and adversity gives birth to some wonderful progeny. Quotas are never the answer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancemad Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 For Ballet but also excellent all round training, Tring and Hammond . Have heard good things about Northern Ballet School too but have never had a pupil there. Hi hfbrew. Every current 3rd year at Northern Ballet School except three girls have already secured employment. Several of them have had to leave recently to start contracts (but will still receive the Trinity qualification). Two of them have classical contracts and the rest commercial, including the better known cruise ship companies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well for just Ballet Id say Royal Ballet School, English National Ballet School, Elmhurst (obviously they also have contemporary etc too. ) Also Ballet West. And Central. For Ballet but also excellent all round training, Tring and Hammond . Have heard good things about Northern Ballet School too but have never had a pupil there. Other places (not specialising in Ballet) are Rambert, Laines, Bird, Millenium, Urdang and Italia Conti. I am sure others will add to the list and I am talking post 16 here. Thanks hfbrew. Showing my ignorance hear but aren't some of those schools all round MT schools? And isn't Rambert contemporary AND ballet? Is ballet west really highly selective? I know the teaching there is excellent but have never considered it a top school before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The standard of dancers that Bird, Laines & Urdang turn out are comparable with Tring & Hammond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I wouldn't deny that and I'm not questioning the reputation of the schools but are they just dancers or do they offer the triple threat and work in MT? Those tha are trained in all disciples to a high level are probably far more employable!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) This is as far as I got with a list of which schools do what? DegreesAcademy for Theatre Arts - 18 yrs foundation degreeThe Arden School of Theatre - 18 yrs degreeArts Ed - 18yrs degreeBird - 18yrs degreeGSA - 18 yrs degreeLIPA - 18 yrs degree (Acting or Dance NOT MT)London Studio Centre - 18 yrs degreeMontview - 18 yrs degreeUrdang - 18yrs degreeLevel 3Academy for Theatre Arts - 16 yrs level 3 diplomaArts Ed - 16 yrs level 3 diplomaBirmingham Ormiston Academy - 16yrs level 3 diplomaHereford - 16yrs level 3 diplomaPerformance Preparation Academy - 16yrs level 3 diplomaPreston - 16yrs level 3 diplomaStage Works - 16yrs level 3 diplomaLevel 6Arts Ed - 18yrs level 6 diplomaBird - 16 yrs level 6 diplomaBodyworks (Cambridge Performing Arts)- 16yrs level 6 diplomaThe Centre - 16 yrs (no DADA but possible scholarships)Elmhurst - 16 level 6 diploma (ballet)ENBS - 16 level 6 diploma (ballet)Expressions - 16 yrs level 4 & 6 diplomaGuildford - No age level 6 diploma (no DADA) (don't know why this is bold...)Hammond Dance - 16yrs level 6 diplomaHammond MT - 16yrs level 6 diplomaItalia Conti - 16yrs diplomaKS dance - 16yrs level 6 diplomaLaine - 16yrs level 6 diplomaLondon Studio Centre - 18 yrs diploma (no DADA)MADD - 16yrs level 6 diplomaMasters - 16yrs level 6 diplomaMillenium - 16yrs level 6 diplomaNorthern Ballet School 16yrs level 6 diploma (Ballet or Theatrical Jazz focus)Performers - 16 yrs level 6 diplomaSLP - 16yrs level 6 diplomaStella Mann - 16yrs level 6 diplomaTring - 16yrs level 6 diplomaUrdang - 16yrs level 6 diploma (edited to add "when I say which schools do what" I was mainly looking at Dance & MT rather than Ballet - as DD started way too late) Edited June 17, 2014 by Katymac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taximom Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I would add London Contemporary Dance School to the top of the list of pure contemporary dance schools along with Northen Schhol of Contemporar Dance and Trinity Laban School of Contemporary Dance. However there are just as few jobs out there for Contemporar dancers, especially females, virtually nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Central School of Ballet from 16yrs BA Honours 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Thank you Katymac! Wonderful help as I'm in the middle of doing a spreadsheet with all of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I wouldn't deny that and I'm not questioning the reputation of the schools but are they just dancers or do they offer the triple threat and work in MT? Those tha are trained in all disciples to a high level are probably far more employable!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Thanks hfbrew. Showing my ignorance hear but aren't some of those schools all round MT schools? And isn't Rambert contemporary AND ballet? Is ballet west really highly selective? I know the teaching there is excellent but have never considered it a top school before? Yes, which is why I listed them as "other" schools. Rambert is very strong in its Ballet but is primarily contemporary. I also put that Tring and Hammond have excellent all round training. Other people can answer your question about Ballet West but I put because Ive been impressed with their graduates who have secured contracts. Edited June 17, 2014 by hfbrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well, Katymac has listed a lot of dance courses and there are probably a lot more. Surely that proves the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaris Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm very sorry Hfbrew, but I have to disagree with you regarding Rambert. It is not primarily contemporary. Rambert students study classical ballet and contemporary absolutely equally right up to graduation. And a number of their graduates go on to secure ballet contracts. The students have to work very long days to fit in both subjects to equally exacting standards. One of the main differences between Rambert's approach to ballet and the traditional classical ballet schools is, in my opinion, that some of the Rambert students who gain a place there don't conform to the typical classical ballet body type. They all have good bodies for dance of course, but some may be very tall or small, or more powerfully built. This may be why more of them choose to go into contemporary dance or choreography. By the time that Rambert students graduate they are very versatile dancers indeed, which can only help with future employment. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I must admit I thought that Rambert was predominantly contemporary and that is what they were outstanding for. I knew that there was still a huge emphasis on ballet training there, but if it was contemporary training you wanted, then Rambert was the place that offered the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaris Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hi Tulip, I think if a student wants contemporary training in the UK they would choose to go to somewhere like London Contemporary Dance School or Northern School of Contemporary Dance, where ballet is still studied but as a support for the contemporary dance. Rambert aims to produce dancers who can dance professionally in both ballet and contemporary dance, though of course this is the ideal rather than the absolute reality - some are inevitably going to prefer (or be more suited to) contemporary over ballet, or vice versa, by the time they finish. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm very sorry Hfbrew, but I have to disagree with you regarding Rambert. It is not primarily contemporary. Rambert students study classical ballet and contemporary absolutely equally right up to graduation. And a number of their graduates go on to secure ballet contracts. The students have to work very long days to fit in both subjects to equally exacting standards. One of the main differences between Rambert's approach to ballet and the traditional classical ballet schools is, in my opinion, that some of the Rambert students who gain a place there don't conform to the typical classical ballet body type. They all have good bodies for dance of course, but some may be very tall or small, or more powerfully built. This may be why more of them choose to go into contemporary dance or choreography. By the time that Rambert students graduate they are very versatile dancers indeed, which can only help with future employment. Happy to be corrected! Although I did say that the Ballet was very strong. Perhaps I should have put "known" for contemporary, certainly thats why student friends of ds chose to go there. But yes, you are right to point out that both Ballet and Contemporary are equal there, a fact that is important that people know! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 What does your standard of dance need to be to work on a cruise ship or at Disneyland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Pretty high. The main cruise liners put on west end standard shows. It's good money too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 What does your standard of dance need to be to work on a cruise ship or at Disneyland? A friend of mine used to work the cruise ships and also Butlins etc. She said you had to be good at pretty much everything, including latin & ballroom, and it was also helpful if you could sing well, and be able to socialise with the holidaymakers as it was all part of the job and you were always 'on duty'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That sounds exhausting, Taxi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now