Vocational School with 'A' Levels

[veryskint]

An academic degree is not for everyone. If a young person has an aptitude for dance they may as well give it a go; they may be fortunate and have a career in dance. It was our view that living independently in London and the discipline and hard work involved in dance training would not be wasted skills. The employment prospects are depressing. However, graduates in other subjects are facing a similar situation just now.

 

If it was me the OU degree while still working sounds like a good future proofing exercise. Their teaching resources have an excellent reputation as well

[Fiz]

The OU is very expensive! My daughter found out it was cost her £600 to do a Shakespeare unit and this was a few years ago now!

[spooky]

Since there are two types of qualification that are offered by the vocational institutions I think each person has to think through which is best for them both in terms of their future as a dancer or not.

 

For those who are studying for a degree (like at Central and Rambert) there is often little time for A levels but also as long as they graduate they will have a degree level qualification which will open a lot of career paths regardless of what the degree is in. Often only the highest level qualification is looked at so the lack of A levels would not be a problem. The difficulty as mentioned above would arise if a student left part way through the course and then wanted to start another degree course because of the limit of four years funding. However many traditional degree courses are structured so that it is often possible to transfer straight into the second year based on previous experience/study. So as long as no more than two years have been taken it is still possible to gain a traditional 3 year degree.

 

The other courses are those which offer diplomas and are (sometimes) funded by Dadas. Obviously you can still go on to Uni as all four years funding would still be available. The dilema here is do you need A levels as well to gain university entrance. Although traditionally A levels are regarded as the required qualification for university entrance many universities will overlook the lack of them in the light of experience and the fact that the dance diplomas are at least equivilent to and often even classed above A levels. Consider those that study Btec rather than A levels in other fields and have no problem gaining uni places as they are equivalent to 3 A levels.

 

There is usually a way to continue to study if one really wants to change direction drastically even if it means part-time while working or something like OU. However if they want to dance the clock is ticking and I think it is best just to go for it and if things need to change along the way so be it. Unfortunately one never knows what the future may bring so it is impossible to plan for all eventualities. I have taken the view that we go with our gut instinct at the time then try not to worry about the what ifs ( not easy for a natural worrier like me I can tell you!)

[rowan]

I forgot to add that, as has been said previously, you can do A levels at a later date and go to university. A friend of mine was an opera singer for years, then did A levels - she already had some anyway, but not the relevant ones - and is now at university studying medicine.

[spooky]

veryskint have sent you a pm (love the username btw)

[veryskint]

I have replied username is how we currently feel!

[Anna C]

I absolutely sympathise, veryskint! :-)

[BalletBloch]

Legat School of Dance offers vocational training in all dance styles.

It is part of St.Bede's Senior School which is a co-educational boarding school, where the students can study for there A-Levels.

 

Its patron is Dame Beryl Grey and I believe that the standard is becoming increasingly higher each year. They have just been appointed (last year) a new Director of Dance, Miss Elaine Holland, who used to be artistic director of The Dance School of Scotland. I do believe that in 2011, the graduates went to further their training at Elmhurst School for Dance, (where one student has already left and joined a company in Romania), Laine Theatre Arts on a DaDa, Central School of Ballet and Millennium Dance.

In 2012, the graduates have gained places at Central School of Ballet, Ballet West, and 2 at London Studio Centre - one on the Classical Course and the other on the Contemporary.

 

They have a new programme starting in 2012 where their vocational training will also count as a qualification.

" Commencing in September 2012 we will be introducing two new BTEC qualifications in Performing Arts (dance). These qualifications will provide academic recognition for the vocational dance training that the students are receiving without diminishing the expectations and demands of what is necessary to pursue a career in the professional dance world.

BTEC Level 2 will be a two year course for Lower Fifth and Upper Fifth and will give the students a three GCSE equivalency and 21 hours of dance per week. These students will also have the opportunity to take up to seven more academic GCSE subjects and gain UCAS points from the external RAD and ISTD exams.

BTEC Level 3, Extended Diploma, will be a two year course for Sixth Formers which will give the students a three A Level equivalency and 26.5 hours of dance weekly. There will be further opportunity to take up to another two academic A Level subjects and gain UCAS points from the external RAD and ISTD exams. "

So sixth form students will finish with the equivalent of 5 A-levels (3 from Btec, 2 proper A-levels)

Hope this helps!! http://www.stbedesschool.org/Legat-School

[ballerinaX]

tring do many Alevels roaming from advanced maths to theatre studies

[CeliB]

Sadly being at a US ballet school DS will graduate with an American High School Diploma and that's it. We took the view that you can learn at any age, but if you want to be the best dancer possible you have to train at a young age. Having been an academic high flyer all my life (I now have so many academic qualifications I can't list them after my name as I would need 3 lines of text) and being married to someone who was consistently bottom of the class at school, scraped a couple of A levels and did a degree in film and geography (yes wierd combination) and now does a film job he adores and has a fantastically rewarding and lucrative career I am less inclined to stress about DS's not very academic inclinations. Kids who go to vocational school are so amazingly focused, mature, self starting, responsible, hard working and interesting (most people who don't know about it find the ballet world fascinating) I think they have the capacity to achieve in any area...

[JulieW]

We also decided that what A levels were on offer was irrelevant to us (and our ds) when he was auditioning for upper schools/sixth form. The most important thing was the ballet training. I know its not easy to do academics later, but it is possible - he wanted to be a classical dancer with every fibre in his body - academics can wait.

[Dancersdad]

Before deciding A levels are a must have "back up" plan please have a very close look at what is on offer. Central and some others offer foundation degrees. This is a BA degree and it better than A level in terms of UCAS points to get into University.

 

All the National Diploma courses are NVQ6 diplomas which are the equivalent to an Honours degree which certainly trumps A levels in the UCAS points stakes. Middlesex will turn this into an actual Honours degree in Professional Performance after a year dissertaion on work experience in that year. If your child has a DaDA technically they are not allowed to do A levels or other diplomas and technically they will not have the time if the full curriculum time of a minimum of 1000 per year is applied (rehearsal and performances do not count as hours within this 1000 hours minimum requirement). Looking at the criteria to pass these Diplomas you either have to not hand in written work of a sufficient standard or have 2 left feet not to pass - or rather if your dancing is not of a standard where you can pass the practical dancing part of the course, you are never going to get into a vocational school.

 

RBS, Brit School and BOA academy offer a BTEC diploma which is the equvalent of 3 A levels.

 

At the age of 24 and older your child can enter University as a mature student without any A levels or proof of earlier education (my wife and I certainly weren't asked when we studied for a BA Hons Business Studies. I didn't show my South African University entrance qualification and my wife had one O level in Art but wasn't asked to prove it).

 

I have got to ask what people who are not sure about what they want to do in life are actually doing at a vocational school, apart from taking a valuable place away from somebody who is sure. £10 - 30 000 a year is a heck of a lot of "not sure". I would ask my child to sit down and have a very careful think about what they really want to do before I spent that kind of money.

 

I also don't understand the obsession with the A level piece of paper. It's only value is to enter University. In the real world it is not going to get you a job as kids with vocational qualifications are going to be at the head of the line in any industry - especially dance. The diplomas offered at all the vocational schools out trump A levels in getting into University if you really believe that you need a University degree to get a dance job. Personally I have never heard of a casting director asking for your piece of paper before offering you a job. The only value it might have is getting you into a closed audition, but most times they watch you dance and if they like what they see they offer you a job. The "piece of paper" might get you more money, but probably not.

 

So what about when your career ends? By then you should have an idea of what you really want to do with the rest of your life and if it is still in the dance industry do you really need more qualifications than your career and vocational diploma (and possibly RAD qualifications to teach)? If you want to go outside the Dance industry that is the time to go to Uni as a mature student or study through the Open University while working and really do the degree that is going to help you.

 

I know the biggest argument is the "back up plan" but a very good friend of mine was involved in some Australian University research into artists who had the "back up plan" and those who didn't. The result was almost overwhelming in that those who had the back up plan were most likely to fail in what they wanted to do, while those who didn't were most likely to succeed. The hypothesis was that without the back up plan the subjects were more driven to succeed as failure was not an option, while the subjects with a back up plan knew they had a safety net.

 

A bit harsh I know, but DS knows his safety net lies in parental units that will always be there for him.

[CeliB]

I find that very reassuring as a family with no plan B! I was told by someone who runs London Russian Ballet School that her son went to the Bolshoi to train, then after graduating decided he didn't want to be a dancer and marched into Oxford University saying 'I have no qualifications cos I've been at the Bolshoi' and was offered a place. A friend of my sisters who was at Cambridge with her was a dancer in Ballet Rambert who gave up and got a place at Cambridge with, I believe, what would have been considered inadequate qualifications in a non dancer. All fits in with my sense that ex dancers are so motivated that they have a huge capacity to achieve. In any case I'm saving myself a few grey hairs by thinking that, so I intend to stick to my opinion!

[Lildancer96]

Sorry dancers dad but I don't agree . There is a big difference between. 'being sure' and actually succeeding. Taking into account the current job situation, I would never consider furthering your education by taking a levels to be irrelevant.

I also think there is more to being educated than getting a piece of paper but that's just my opinion.

Lil

Edited June 25, 2012 by Lildancer96

[taxi4ballet]

A dancer's career is a short one. Having other qualifications isn't a back-up plan in case they are unsuccessful.

 

They have two careers:

 

1. Dance

 

2. A job when they stop dancing

 

It would be advantageous to already have suitable qualifications.

[glowlight]

To have other qualifications is certainly advantageous, but in practice it can be very difficult to do A levels and Diploma or Degree level course at the same time. This is why some of the vocational schools only allow 1 A level to be taken, and some don't particularly encourage it at all.

 

If you are very bright and academic study comes easily to you it probably isn't a problem and is a good idea but if not then going down the A level route could actually compromise the dance career. Given how much has been invested in dancing so far, that would seem a terrible waste. The window of opportunity is so narrow.

 

However it is probably easier for those of us whose dk's have finished or are about to finish their dance education to see this perspective than those embarking on the process.

 

I should add that I always stressed to my dd that she had to work hard for GCSEs and if she hadn't got a good bunch of those including Maths and English she would have been retaking them.

[taxi4ballet]

Interesting, Glowlight. My dd has yet to choose her GCSE options and she has already decided (without any input from us) that she doesn't want to do GCSE Dance or Drama and would rather take two more academic subjects.

 

She's also avidly checking the vocational school websites fo A-level options. Bless her, she's only 13!

[glowlight]

If she is keen to do A levels then I wouldn't discourage her - just saying that it's not an easy option

[Lildancer96]

My dd was very keen to do a levels alongside a diploma in dance and likewise chose 3 academic subjects that she enjoys that are not performance related.

As I said in my last post , this is my opinion and I certainly wouldn't critise anyone who didn't want to continue their academic studies. I also would not expect anyone to say that my dd was not committed to her dancing as she has chosen to study too.

Lil

Edited June 25, 2012 by Lildancer96

[glowlight]

I certainly didn't intend to criticise those who do do A levels alongside their dance diploma/degree. I have great admiration for those who can achieve this.

[Lildancer96]

I wasn't implying you were glowlight I agree with your posting.

I was trying to say that everyone has their own opinion and shouldn't need to justify it.

Lil

[aileen]

I am not familiar with foundation degrees and National Diplomas and do not know how they are regarded by the top universities. My gut feeling is that if I had a DC who went to vocational school at 16 I would encourage him or her to focus exclusively on dance for the few years that s/he was training. If it didn't work out s/he could go down the academic route later. I think that it must be very difficult to study for A levels alongside vocational dance training given how hard children in academic day schools have to work to achieve good A levels. I agree with glowlight's view that studying for academic qualifications could detrimentally affect the DC's dance training unless the DC was very academic, hardworking and, above all, well-organised.

[spooky]

I think it is quite difficult for people to think outside the usual route of GCSEs, A-levels then Uni. I know the (non-vocational) secondary school my dd attended assumed all their students would go on to the local sixth form college for A-levels. We had a great deal of difficulty explaining her choices to them and kept getting calls from the careers people who didn't understand her offers for sixth form were based on auditions and not conditional on GCSE results. What I am trying to say is that the constant talk from schools and peers about A-level choices can make dancers feel they should be trying to do these as well because the true value of their vocational training/qualifications is not widely understood. On the audition rounds we also met many dancers whose parents were unsure/unsupportive about a dance career and felt an establishment which offered A-levels as well was therefore an obvious choice.

[Lildancer96]

I agree too that they would need to be hard working , academic and committed. Many schools including RBs, elmhurst, tring and central do offer a levels alongside training for those on dada funding though , so they must consider it a viable option.

I wonder whether these schools look at previous academic achievement and advise students if they think it would be too much for them ? Lil

[BankruptMum]

If a child doesn't want to study A levels then does this mean they would never be offered a place at Tring, Elmhurst, Etc? Not everyone is academically able. Perhaps the Btech route would be more complimentary with vocational training, but there seems to be no alternative available.

[Pas de Quatre]

I don't think anyone is obliged to take academic A-levels at Vocational schools if they are not strong enough academically. There are often other options such as Dance or Theatre Studies available. However I do think it is a good idea to get the best non-dance qualifications possible even if totally commited to dance. The reality is that ONLY the Royal Ballet School has 100% employment record in recent years. You really do have to think of the alternatives as not all of those at Vocational school will get jobs. The article linked in the New English Ballet Theatre thread is relevant.

 

Edited for typo

Edited June 26, 2012 by Pas de Quatre

[Dancersdad]

DaDAs are specifically not allowed to pay for A-levels or other Diplomas, so if Tring or any other DaDA schools offer them take it as you are getting something for nothing. You cannot be forced to do A-levels if you are in receipt of a DaDA, however at Tring I know that you will not get the required minimum 1000 hours Diploma studies that are required by Trinity, because for the first 2 years the mornings are given over to academic and other diploma studies, so you will be pretty bored if you don't take other studies.