Vocational schools in the USA

[LinMM]

I guess height will always be an issue for girls in ballet because of wearing pointe shoes which adds to it all!!

 

There are just not enough tall enough men to go around in most ballet company's.......but for another thread......!

[JulieW]

There's a thread on height here:

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/5981-too-tall/?hl=height#entry78038

 

Please - as I said before (but it's now on an earlier page) - back to the original subject and stop with the rest of it.  I'll be back in the morning - I don't like locking threads!! (sound like a mum now!!!!)  Personally I've had enough of reading "you said...."  "oh but you said...." 

[afab]

I would like to point out that given their recent results at Lausanne for example, Princess Grace Academy is definitely not second grade to RBS.

 

Have a look at their recent footage on youtube, the students are absolutely amazing!

 

Edited to add I hope what I say didn't get into the "you said" category, Julie! If so, I'm sorry...

Edited May 19, 2014 by afab

[primrose]

I would have said it was known to be an excellent school also. What maybe one persons opinion may not be anothers. Always do your own research.

[Dancermum]

I feel like I should have the right of reply before this thread is locked!

I am not sure why what started as a fact finding mission has turned into something else but I thank those of you who have offered useful information, you as a group are certainly a fountain of knowledge and been very helpful in parts. I do think the turn this thread has taken is picking up all the bits about the dancing world that I am not keen on and wonder why I am sending my DD down this road!

 

I do feel that my DD's ability is in question... I do not know if she is good enough to get into one of the UK schools. She didn't start ballet until nearly 9 so we never tried for year 7 entry when the most places are available - I didn't have a clue about the dancing world then (and still don't really get it half the time now!). She did audition this year for Elmhurst where she had a truly horrible experience & subsequent loss of confidence which put her off further auditions this year. She would still like to go to a dance school (whether it be at 16 or next year) so I need to know all the options out there, not all school are right for all students, however brilliant a dancer they might be.

 

I had already heard with the US schools (and I picked US not Europe due to the lack of language barriers) that you did a DVD audition then the summer school, which I thought might be a more positive audition process, however I could not find any schools for under 16's which were like RBS/Elmhurst/Tring/Hammond that offered all round everything (dancing/boarding/education) which is why I asked the original question... plus they are a nation of scholarships so I thought maybe there was funding out there specifically for international students. 

 

It is interesting to hear all the banter between what is an 'elite' school and what isn't... to be honest I am a bit fed up of hearing if you don't go to RBS or Elmhurst then you're not a good enough dancer. If dance companies were made up of just graduates of the 'elite' institutions then I think the dance world would be poorer for it. I am not saying they are not brilliant & talented, they absolutely are, but there are others with different training who I see as equally beautiful to watch.

 

OK enough rambling...

I think there is some really useful information here in this thread and I hope that will benefit others as well as me. I will certainly do some more research, however with the lack of academics on offer, save for a couple of schools, it is more likely to be a 16+ option than for now.

[aileen]

Yes, it's a shame that this thread has got so heated after a simple request for information! Personally, I would take away from this discussion:

 

1 Many of the schools abroad are difficult to get into and, depending on family family finances, may or may not be a cheaper option than the UK schools

 

2 Although all the schools are broadly looking for the same attributes, there is a degree of subjectivity involved in selecting students and different weighting may be applied to those attributes at different schools

 

3 Looking at the UK companies, there is quite a wide variety of heights and body shapes, particularly among the men who range from tall and willowy to short and quite stocky 

 

4 The academic and accommodation side of things abroad is not always as well covered as at the UK schools

 

5 Unless your DD tries she will never know whether she is good enough to get into a school

 

6 A lot of research into the individual schools, particularly funding, needs to be carried out

 

7 It might be better for you and your DD to focus your and her energies on getting top notch training locally, at associate schemes and at summer schools for the next two years.

 

I hope that this doesn't offend. I'm trying to be helpful.

Edited May 19, 2014 by aileen

[LinMM]

That's a really useful summary Aileen and very generous of you to take the time to do it Thankyou !!

 

I know the Kirov Academy in Washington has academics but obviously within the American system. This will be Vaganova style though so if your DD doesn't mind a change perhaps. I think this style is an excellent training in ballet and I prefer the way it engages the upper body more.

I'm sure the Kirov is one of those where you attend the summer school and an offer comes from this. It really does look like a good school and if you go to their website there is plenty of info and footage of the students and of the summer schools etc.

 

Perhaps after you have done some more research if you then listed some schools in the US that you felt attracted to then people would have a bit more to go on and could give you more direct information about those particular schools.

 

If you are concerned about the educational side then it might be a good idea to wait till your DD gets to 16 so she has at least the minimum GCSE requirements behind her.

Sorry to hear she had a not very good experience at her audition. If it was her first one this can be a bit of a shock.

 

Many many years ago I auditioned for the RBS at age 11 and didn't get in......but it really was a shock to see how good some of the others were at that time......it made me realise I had a lot of work to do!!

I didn't give up ballet though I found a better more local school and carried on that way.

These days there are far more opportunities like associate classes and summer schools to help with progress and serve as a guide to how you are doing so to speak.

 

Ballet is a bit of a tough old world and as the world gets smaller seems to get more competitive by the year. But there are still some heart warming stories out there!!

 

I hope it all works out for your DD anyway.

[dancemad]

Hi Dancermum.

Have you looked at the US equivilant of this site? It is also very informative. I ( think ) I've managed to copy a link here! You would probably find the 'Cross Talk' forum an interesting place to start.

chttp://dancers.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=48c013ca5c97e0abe20385bde356d6fb&showforum=1

 

I personally think you're right to explore every avenue. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[dancemad]

..........and of course my link doesnt work! LOL. The website is:

www.dancers.invisionzone.com

[Pas de Quatre]

http://dancers.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=75ca0856a3fd05fad8f4e28903ad33e3&act=idx

 

Here is the link to Ballet Talk for Dancers.  I have been a member there as long as I have on this board - but have a different user name.

 

There are several useful threads about ballet schools and colleges (Universities) in USA.  One thing that came up recently was that more companies do now like to take slightly older students who have gone through college with a ballet major so going to college does not mean the end of ambition for a performing career.. 

[dancemad]

Thanks Pas du Quatre. Obviously more up on IT than me!

[invisiblecircus]

I think it is also worth mentioning Canada's National Ballet School. I have no personal experience of the (school although I do know someone who attended on scholarship) but I know that unlike the American schools mentioned they do have a boarding house and academic provision on site. I think they accept from 10 years old but do accept into other years too.

 

I would also like to suggest that your DD considers attending summer schools at any of the schools she is interested in. Those are often very competitive to get into too but it is definitely worth sending in an application. You can get lots of useful feedback from those courses as well as improving your technique, and if you end up not getting aplace for year 10, you will be in a position to make a stronger application for 6th form.

 

I wish you and your daughter the best of luck!

[Spax]

Can I just say that one school that may be at the top one year doesn't mean it is at the top another. 

That goes for a school that was lower down in the ranks could be nearer the top.

You really need to-do your homework on who the teachers are at that given year.

Who has left the school.

Who has joined the school.

Pastoral care. 

Academics is really important.

And more importantly where your child will be happy and flourish.

When your child goes for audition 9/10 they will feel which is the right place for them. 

My dd did not want to go to Ballet West. It was her only option due to a car crash which destroyed her auditions. But we convinced her to go for a very late audition and make a holiday out of it. She went in knowing in her mind that she would not like it.....came out saying 'this is the place!' She is now in her 2nd year. Central would have been better as its only 1/2 mile away from us! But she is staying put!

Don't look at the name of a school, look at the school itself.

[madhatter]

Have you looked into schools in Germany?  I don't think that you have to speak German as it´s offered as a subject, there is academics and boarding?  Look at the Hamburg ballet school website in English.  

[afab]

For the Hamburg school, you have to either speak German, or go to a special German course the first year before joining the German academic school the year after or else go to the international school (very pricey!) unless you're over 16 and you can stop school altogether... Home schooling is not allowed...

 

That's what the head of studies told me a couple of months ago.

[Spax]

Looks very good

[Melody]

Another thing to bear in mind with overseas schools, although I think it's been mentioned earlier in this thread, is that a minor at a school in another country will need a designated guardian in that country. I know that's the case in the USA because the son of some friends of ours from the UK was going to be over here for a year and they asked us if we'd be prepared to act as a guardian for him. From what I remember of the papers we were sent, it's not just a formality but you have to be responsible for some financial as well as welfare issues if the family doesn't come through on them. If you don't have a close friend or relative in the country (pretty sure it doesn't have to be in the same local area as where the youngster will be studying but that's worth checking), you can probably find an outfit that provides guardians on a professional basis, but that's another item that would add (probably significantly) to the expense of sending your child abroad to study.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Melody

[afab]

I don't actually think it is the case in every country... Never heard of it in Germany for example. At POB you need a Paris contact in case of illness but you need it also for French kids with parents not living in Paris...

When our DDs were offered places in Tring, there was no question of that either even though we live abroad.

Edited May 19, 2014 by afab

[Guest Autumn days]

Picture this. What would have happened if, for some reason all those years ago, Darcey Bussels (or insert the name of any principle dancer of equal standing) mum thought to look at schools overseas instead of RBS. Maybe she wold have asked questions of friends etc and used such a forum as this had it been around. Would she have got in? of cousre, we don't know but I would say it would have been likely. How do we know hat the OP's daughter, or any other in the same position, is not the next Darcey Bussel?

[Melody]

It may have something to do with the US system of private health insurance - that if the family doesn't pay up, they've got someone on the spot to go after. I seem to remember that that was one of the most detailed parts of the papers we were sent.

 

I was just looking at the UK site that gives accreditation to guardians, and it says that "It is recommended" that children have them, and that "the majority of independent schools" make guardianship a condition for overseas admissions, so it sounds like something that's done on a case-by-case basis in the UK and Tring isn't one of the schools requiring it.

 

I've had a look at some American sites too and found this information on one of them "American schools require international students to appoint a guardian within the metropolitan region. This person will act as “in loco parentis” while your son or daughter attends school in the United States to ensure they have a support system close by."

 

So actually the guardian does have to be in the same geographic area as the child, which probably makes sense in the USA since it's such a big country.

 

In any case, it's something worth bearing in mind and checking into. It's been a while since we went through it, but in the USA these legal things tend to get more rather than less strict as time passes.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Melody

[Pas de Quatre]

Tring may not require a guardian in the strict legal sense, but they certainly require an arrangement in place so that the pupils have somewhere to go when the school shuts for exeats, half term and holidays.  There are commercial organisations who provide this service in UK for many boarding schools, whether dance or academic. 

[afab]

For us it would have been easy to hop over the Channel but not so easy when you live farther away!

Edited May 19, 2014 by afab

[Spax]

I have a headache!

Ds will stay where he is

[CeliB]

Hello sorry to come late to the discussion but have been away for a week abroad.

 

DS has a 100% academic and artistic scholarship to Kirov in Washington. We pay a contribution towards boarding costs which was means tested and for us is around £6,000. Full fees are around $45,000 I think. DS was offered his place after attending a summer school aged 13 having had minimal ballet training at that point (around 2 hours a week for a year, before that 30 min a week since age 10). There are lots of students there from all over the world although not all that many Europeans. 

 

He never applied to any UK vocational schools as he wanted to do Vaganova training but when he was young he auditioned for RBS associates and wasn't accepted. He did get a place at RBS summer school a few years back but didn't like the training at all.

 

To give you an idea of his standard now, this year (age 16) he applied to summer schools at San Fran, Ellison and Dutch National and was offered full scholarships to all. A 16 year old (girl) from Kirov has just been offered a company position at Dutch National- I don't know about the other graduates this year. But Kirov don't assess out so their graduate placements are not really comparable with RBS who cream off the best of the UK and International students for Upper School. I personally think DS's progress is nothing short of astonishing. And actually his academic progress has matched this- he has gone from below average to straight A Honours student in 2 years (he is dyslexic and dyscalculic). And the pastoral care is fantastic. If you are interested in the general standard I think Paolo Galli's photos give you a good idea

http://www.paologalli.net/Other-1/Winter-Performance-Saturday7/35569495_QS7cQR

 

We don't require a US sponsor or guardian (not sure where that info came from) just US health insurance.

 

I agree with others that the US ballet website is a great resource- and they list discussions about the various schools in separate threads, so easy to find stuff. I must say though they are far less vocal than balletco- I often go on the site after several weeks to find no new threads!!!!

 

DS loves the training but is keen to return to Europe for work- he feels US companies are more 'modern' (does that make sense? I know NOTHING about ballet!!!!) and doesn't really like American culture as much as European.

 

Any questions feel free to ask. I would say despite the anguish sending DS to Kirov has been an astoundingly positive move.

[aileen]

CeliB, I'm so glad that you posted, with some up to date information, particularly on costs and funding.

[CeliB]

Just to be clear the funding DS gets is from the school itself, as were all the scholarships from the various summer schools. Nothing at all from the UK.

 

Once you have added flights (in particular our flights to go and watch DS perform) it is probably more expensive than RBS, but I guess if we didn't go over (and plenty of the non US students' parents don't) it would be closer to what we would pay for vocational schooling here. Anyway for DS UK schools weren't an option as he is totally wedded to Russian style (if he hadn't started Vaganova classes with Judy Breen I suspect he would have given up ballet long ago).....

 

And the academics and boarding are all on one site with extremely caring and attentive staff so we never felt DS wasn't well looked after. He has been through numerous D+V bugs, a fall with head injury and a broken foot (not ballet related) as well as ongoing growth spurt hip problems and always received care and attention at the standard I would have provided myself. I have never waited for more than 2 hours for a response to any email I have sent (except overnight!) and if we call the school they will send someone to run off and find him if we need to speak. DS who (as I said ) is not very academic has adapted to the American system with some teething troubles but nothing insurmountable. He has had an amazing experience getting to know a different country and city as his home, travelled internationally on his own, and is incredibly independent.

 

To be 100% honest we have had some problems with health care and insurance which are too long and dull to relate on a general site, and trying to sort out a mobile telephone (or in fact anything financial) if you are not a US citizen is a headache of fairly epic proportions so it's not all peachy on the logistics front. The huge advantage it has had over training in other EU countries is that at least DKs don't need to learn a new language (though reading DS's math (sic) textbooks you could be forgiven for thinking it was)...

 

For myself I wish he were closer to home, but so far I haven't for one moment felt we made the wrong choice (in so far as we had any say in the matter!!!).

[Melody]

 

 

We don't require a US sponsor or guardian (not sure where that info came from) just US health insurance.

 

 

 

That was me causing trouble...

 

I've had experience of the guardianship thingy both for British kids wanting to come over here and overseas kids wanting to get into British boarding schools, so I assumed it was more common than it apparently is. However, it's still required by some, although apparently not across the board.

[CeliB]

That was me causing trouble...

 

I've had experience of the guardianship thingy both for British kids wanting to come over here and overseas kids wanting to get into British boarding schools, so I assumed it was more common than it apparently is. However, it's still required by some, although apparently not across the board.

Thinking about it, its entirely possible that different states have different rules- so both experiences may be correct...

One additional point about different country rules which some parents may not be happy about is that DKs are expected to be up to date with the State's own vaccination programme (certainly in DC this is true). Essentially this means additional vaccines as currently USA have varicella (chickenpox) Hepatitis B and seasonal flu as part of the normal schedule....oh and maybe rotavirus too.

In practise they haven't really pushed the issue... I personally think hep B is a good idea for DKs intending to live and work abroad with peers who may be from Hep B endemic countries (japan for example)...

[Anjuli_Bai]

The only thing I can think of that might involve guardianship is in case of an emergency and an immediate approval is needed for medical treatment such as surgery.  I think in life or death situations the medical team makes a decision, but in less than life or death situations - but care is still urgent - there needs to be someone with that authority.

 

I could be wrong - but I do remember this happening to my neighbor's daughter.

[victoriapage]

Perhaps this short film of a series called Strictly Ballet, which focuses on life for boarding students at SAB, would be of some interest.

 

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/video/strictly-ballet-strictly-ballet-episode-040000246.html

Edited May 25, 2014 by victoriapage