Vocational schools in the USA

[rowan]

Yes, I think you're right, Victoriapage. 

I don't think the chances of a performing job after studying dance at a university would be particularly high,

but you would end up with a degree. Butler University is one of the better known ones.

[afab]

LinMM, I called them trainees for lack of a better word. They are kids who didn't get into the school because they are either too old or slightly not good enough (even though very good) and they are offered a year's training but they have to pay. They are not considered as " belonging" to the school even though they have classes with the students and they cannot apply to POB jobs in the internal auditions.

POB has internal auditions for the school students and these auditions come first and if the theatre doesn't find what they want, they organize external auditions open to non POB students. So the trainees can only stay a short time and also audition externally. I hope I'm being clear...

[LinMM]

Absolutely Ive now understood perfectly!

 

I bet you have to be pretty strong minded and dedicated to be a trainee then!! Not quite good enough.......but in reality probably still b****y good I suspect!

[afab]

Definitely LinMM!

 

Here's the English description:

https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/les-artistes/l-ecole-de-danse/admissions/plus-de-13-ans

[primrose]

Invisible Circus

 

This is why a little information is bad information. Which European schools? I know UK dancers who trained at the Bolshoi, the costs for a foreigner were around £50k + a year and there was no financial assistance, not even from the UK.

 

The costs listed at Hamburg, Stuttgart, POB etc are for nationals. To say you're "Sure" there's financial assistance doesn't mean it's true, in fact from what I know about British dancers studying abroad which is actually quite a lot, the one big problem they all faced was money. It's as expensive to study in one of the big European ballet schools, if not a lot more so than it is to study here.

 

And that brings me to another point if someone doesn't have the technique or talent to get accepted at one of the top schools in the UK they won't be accepted at one of the European schools either.

 

And why would you want a British kid to go into a foreign school system at 14/15? Not only will she be studying a completely different curriculum but also in a language she doesn't understand.

I have no idea where you have got your information from but it costs only £12,000 per year to train at the Bolshoi and that includes full boarding, food and academics. Edited May 18, 2014 by primrose

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Is that really £1,200 or £12,000.

 

Either way its a lot cheaper than a UK boarding school.

[primrose]

"Which European schools? I know UK dancers who trained at the Bolshoi, the costs for a foreigner were around £50k + a year and there was no financial assistance, not even from the UK."

Last time I looked Russia was not part of the EU.

It only costs £12,000 PER YEAR to train at the Bolshoi including full boarding food and academics. Edited May 18, 2014 by primrose

[Picturesinthefirelight]

 

 

I can't quote on my phone but tried to make it clear that the bits in " " were BD 19 & my comment was just the bit at the end.

 

Hope that came across.

 

Was sort of hoping you would comment with some actual facts.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Picturesinthefirelight

[primrose]

"If your kid doesn't have what it takes to make it here they sure as hell don't stand a chance in Moscow or St Petersburg. Just saying."

Not my place to give out info on others children but there is a poster whose child certainly proved that wrong with regards to UK & Russian schools.[/quuote]

 

 

I am not sure if you are referring to my dd. She was not offered RBS but she was made quite a few offers with funding at most of the other top schools in the UK. She was also a RBS associate.

Edited May 18, 2014 by primrose

[primrose]

I think that BD 19 makes a valuable point in saying that to get into any top classical vocational school then the talent and body shape has to be there. The Russians do like slim long limbed dancers with small heads and long necks. They love high arched feet and sway back legs. Flexibility is important. Most of all they expect their dancers to work hard.To be accepted onto the three year course is very difficult indeed and a lot of dancers after the trainee audition year do not get offered further training. My dd was offered the full 3 year course. When my dd came home RBS, ENB and Elmhurst all showed an interest in her. The training at the Bolshoi really is unique.

Edited May 18, 2014 by primrose

[dancemad]

 

 

I spend all my time with people who went to the "top" international dance schools and one thing I do know and I'm not saying this to get at anyone here, the same demands for entry in terms of body shape, facility and aptitude for ballet training hold wherever you go. Be it London, New York, Moscow, St Petersburg, Hamburg, Paris

.

Sorry but I disagree with this. At least as far as selection in the USA is concerned. My DD has a male friend who recently went into a top ballet school in the US at the age of 16.He is 6ft 6" tall. There are other young dancers who have gone through US schools into the company. Both Samantha Lynch and Drew Jacoby (female) are 6ft ( so about 6ft 4" en pointe!) and rose up from corps de ballet level. Fabrice Calmel is 6ft 6.5" at Joffrey Chicago and Lines Ballet in San Fran has even taller.

I just don't see RB or ENB (for example) ever employing such tall dancers or selecting them as youngsters for training. As many know, POB have a height chart that prospective students have to fit into!

So not all institutions employ the same selection criteria (thank goodness)!

[primrose]

I think height is not so much of an issue as it used to be but I think they would have to have the body shape of a ballet dancer. Long legs short torso long neck small head etc. They would also have to have the required facility. I cant see any classical school accepting a ballet dancer with say short legs big hips etc. Ballet companies when advertising for auditions will often state height requirements. Not many would allow female dancers above 5ft 8 inch unless exceptional. If you go on dance Europe auditions you can see this for yourself.

[Nana Lily]

Sorry but where did this thread suddenly jump into the throws of very tall ballet dancers? Where did that come from it's very 'left field'. The OP didn't intend this. Maybe 'dancemad' you should start a different thread on 'tall dancers' interesting to maybe specify what yiu consider to be 'tall'

[invisiblecircus]

Invisible Circus

 

This is why a little information is bad information. Which European schools? I know UK dancers who trained at the Bolshoi, the costs for a foreigner were around £50k + a year and there was no financial assistance, not even from the UK.

 

 

It wasn't information, bad or otherwise, it was a question. There is no point in me writing a long post about European schools if the OP is considering the US for other reasons. I also note that you also mentioned European schools in your first post without elaborating on that.

 

The OP has since clarified that she is concerned about the extremely small number of places available in the UK due to the fact that all the school that have a year 10 start offering places in year 7.

 

Anyway,  Académie de Danse Classique Princesse Grace in Monaco accepts students from 13/ 14. Tuition is €6500 per year and boarding is also €6500 per year. That's cheaper than schools in the UK. Regarding academic work, students undertake correspondence courses from their country and there are tutors on site for support and guidance. FYI, I attended this school myself.

 

Website is here http://www.balletsdemontecarlo.com/academie-princesse-grace/academie.php?id_menu=1

 

Another school that has not been mentioned in this thread is Accademia teatro alla scala in Milan http://www.accademialascala.it/en/. Their course starts in year 7 but they do accept into other years, providing of course that the student has reached the required level.

 

 

To say you're "Sure" there's financial assistance doesn't mean it's true, in fact from what I know about British dancers studying abroad which is actually quite a lot, the one big problem they all faced was money.

 

Well, it IS true as it happens, not because I said it but because the school said it. I also personally know students at the school who are on scholarships so I know first hand that that is the situation.

 

 

 

But I'm just saying if your dream is to go to one of the top UK schools and for whatever reason it doesn't happen and you're looking to America or Europe, please, it's just as hard, if not harder for all those other reasons. And then when the training's over you have the headache of trying to get a contract but that's a whole other story altogether.

 

The OP has not indicated that her DD is not talented enough to enter one of the UK schools. Not every school is the right for for every dance and likewise, a dancer can be supremely talented but not what a specific school is looking for. I think the OP is smart for looking into other options for her daughter and I wish her the best of luck in finding a suitable school.

[Guest BD19]

Primrose, sorry my bad I meant to type £15k per year with tuition boarding and living.

 

Invisiblecircus, I don't see why you're getting so worked up. Sure there are second, third, fourth rate schools all over the place that take dancers who don't make the grade in their own country or abroad.

 

But if you're thinking of going to SAB, POB, Bolshoi, Mariinsky, Stuttgart, Hamburg or any of the elite schools because you didn't get into RBS, think again, it's as tough or tougher.

 

That's the thing about the leap from White Lodge to Upper, so many have gotten assessed out and you're suddenly aware of how international ballet is by the intake of students from abroad.

 

And sure there are scholarships for incredibly talented foreign students, but I don't think that's an issue here, do you?

[Guest BD19]

Sorry but I disagree with this. At least as far as selection in the USA is concerned. My DD has a male friend who recently went into a top ballet school in the US at the age of 16.He is 6ft 6" tall. There are other young dancers who have gone through US schools into the company. Both Samantha Lynch and Drew Jacoby (female) are 6ft ( so about 6ft 4" en pointe!) and rose up from corps de ballet level. Fabrice Calmel is 6ft 6.5" at Joffrey Chicago and Lines Ballet in San Fran has even taller.

I just don't see RB or ENB (for example) ever employing such tall dancers or selecting them as youngsters for training. As many know, POB have a height chart that prospective students have to fit into!

So not all institutions employ the same selection criteria (thank goodness)!

 

 

I never mentioned ANYTHING about height. Great facility is great facility whatever height you are. Great technique, ditto. Calmels didn't get into POB because of his height.

 

The criteria of being right for ballet, right for the school is the same whatever height.

[sarahw]

I wonder if maybe a truce could be declared? This thread is potentially very useful especially with the experience of BD19 and others who have been there.

 

I think we are all genuinely trying to help others just sometimes it is hard to see from the other point of view..

[Anna C]

I agree, Sarahw. :-)

 

It would be beneficial to get back onto the original topic of schools abroad, though, and not get into a lengthy discussion trying to second guess what physique/torso length/height schools may or may not be looking for.

 

Thanks everyone.

[invisiblecircus]

Primrose, sorry my bad I meant to type £15k per year with tuition boarding and living.

 

That's less than half of the fees at the RBS so useful for the OP to know if she is concerned about fees.

 

Invisiblecircus, I don't see why you're getting so worked up. Sure there are second, third, fourth rate schools all over the place that take dancers who don't make the grade in their own country or abroad.

 

But if you're thinking of going to SAB, POB, Bolshoi, Mariinsky, Stuttgart, Hamburg or any of the elite schools because you didn't get into RBS, think again, it's as tough or tougher.

 

I'm not worked up, I was answering your post and trying to help the OP.

 

Neither of the schools I mentioned are second, third or fourth rate by the way.

 

It is also possible to make the grade for the RBS but not get a place because there are simply none available. This is particuarly true of years 8-10. Furthermore not all of the schools you mentioned look for the same qualities in students.

 

 

And sure there are scholarships for incredibly talented foreign students, but I don't think that's an issue here, do you?

 

It is an issue because OP specifically mentioned funding assistance in her first post and also because of your bizzare statement that just because I said funding is available doesn't make it true.

 

If you are inferring that OP's daughter isn't talented enough to receive a scholarship, we actually know nothing about her so let's leave it up to any schools she is interested in to determine whether she meets their criteria.

[balletla]

Sorry but where did this thread suddenly jump into the throws of very tall ballet dancers? Where did that come from it's very 'left field'. The OP didn't intend this. Maybe 'dancemad' you should start a different thread on 'tall dancers' interesting to maybe specify what yiu consider to be 'tall'

 

 

 

I agree, Sarahw. :-)

It would be beneficial to get back onto the original topic of schools abroad, though, and not get into a lengthy discussion trying to second guess what physique/torso length/height schools may or may not be looking for.

Thanks everyone.

That's why I started a new topic about what schools are looking for

[primrose]

Invisiblecircus I think your post is getting a bit personal. BD19 has not mentioned the original posters daughter at all never mind her ability. Can we all remain respectful to each other. This forum is very friendly helpful and supportive so lets try and keep it that way.

[JoJo]

For those seeking clarity re the Bolshoi - here is a link to my daughter's blog - she is currently completing her second of four years of training there:

 

http://talaleeturton.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/top-tips-for-international-students-thinking-about-training-at-the-bolshoi-ballet-academy/

 

The fees are currently 17,000 euros per year - the exchange rate impacts on how much that equates to in sterling depending on when you pay. My daughter started there aged 16 but the Bolshoi do take international students younger.

 

The training is of a very high standard and my daughter is enjoying the whole Russian experience which she writes about regularly in her blog.

[JulieW]

I'm happy to leave this thread running as long as we keep to the subject of schools in the USA and others abroad (as in, not the UK).

 

No more mention of other comments now please - or I'll have to lock it as it'll be unconstructive.

[victoriapage]

For those seeking clarity re the Bolshoi - here is a link to my daughter's blog - she is currently completing her second of four years of training there:

 

http://talaleeturton.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/top-tips-for-international-students-thinking-about-training-at-the-bolshoi-ballet-academy/

 

The fees are currently 17,000 euros per year - the exchange rate impacts on how much that equates to in sterling depending on when you pay. My daughter started there aged 16 but the Bolshoi do take international students younger.

 

The training is of a very high standard and my daughter is enjoying the whole Russian experience which she writes about regularly in her blog.

 

 

Your daughter writes very nicely!  

I wanted to point out; her page on British students at the Bolshoi doesn't mention Richard Collins? He was a little older than the average student when he went to Russia in 1968 or so, but I'm pretty sure he can be counted; he even wrote a book called "Behind the Bolshoi Curtain".

[dancemad]

Sorry but where did this thread suddenly jump into the throws of very tall ballet dancers? Where did that come from it's very 'left field'. The OP didn't intend this. Maybe 'dancemad' you should start a different thread on 'tall dancers' interesting to maybe specify what yiu consider to be 'tall'

I was responding to BD19 stating that all institutions all over the world, admit students based on the same criteria including "body shape". To me body shape includes height.

[LinMM]

Earlier I mentioned a balletco forum members son as training at a school in the US and that he had a scholarship to do so.

 

Just to clarify this scholarship is offered by the school itself ........so the funding was from them and not from any UK source.

 

Sorry if this may seem obvious to some but wanted to clarify just in case anyone thought his place was UK funded!

 

I may have missed how old the OP 's DC is but I think if under the age of 16 it may be best to look at schools which offer some academic education as well. Home schooling is all very well but I think unless a parent or family relative or very close friend can oversee this in situ as it were ....must be rather difficult to monitor. Perhaps a post 16 student would cope better with this.

[LinMM]

Gosh that brings back memories ......I read that book by Richard Collins "Behind the Bolshoi Curtain" back in the eighties and was very impressed.

I'm not sure but for a while he may have taught some classes at the original Dance Centre in CG or nearby in London.

[Piccolo]

I never mentioned ANYTHING about height. Great facility is great facility whatever height you are. Great technique, ditto. Calmels didn't get into POB because of his height.

 

The criteria of being right for ballet, right for the school is the same whatever height.

[Piccolo]

Sorry... Trying to quote the above post from BD19. BD19, can I ask you (dare I ask you ;-) ) does this apply for girls also? Is it ok to be tall?

[hfbrew]

Sorry... Trying to quote the above post from BD19. BD19, can I ask you (dare I ask you ;-) ) does this apply for girls also? Is it ok to be tall?

Think this is a valid question best asked in the new thread started by Ribbons about "schools are all looking for different things."

 

Juliew has requested in post 89 that the topic stays on US schools and other overseas establishments.I thought the original question a good one as its good to hear about training beyond UK shores!

 

Feel really sorry for our excellent moderators sometimes having to repeat themselves so much. I am sure others will join me in thanking them for working so hard to keep this lovely forum a civilised place to be.

 

Now back to topic , please!

[Guest BD19]

Invisiblecircus

 

For starters RBS gives means tested assistance, my parents got it otherwise I wouldn't have been able to go. And not that it's anyone's business we weren't poor, and the fees ended up being much less than the Bolshoi.

 

RBS means testing is available to ALL UK students. The Bolshoi once you factor in flights, living expenses on top of fees, is far greater.

 

All schools at the top level look for the same thing, kids with the facility, potential technique and dance ability to make it at the top level.

 

I've no idea about the level of the OP's daughter, but the OP stated the family can't afford to send their daughter to dance school without assistance. If a kid can't pass the criteria for RBS, Elmhurst, ENB School which are the elite schools in the UK, those same criteria count at every elite school.

 

Princess Grace School in Monaco is second rate compared to RBS, the Russian Schools, SAB it's not a contender nor will it ever be. Sorry to offend it's a fact.

[Guest BD19]

Piccolo I knew one girl at RBS who was six foot. She would never be taken into the company, but she had it all. Only in height, she had a bit too much.

[Guest BD19]

I was responding to BD19 stating that all institutions all over the world, admit students based on the same criteria including "body shape". To me body shape includes height.

 

 

No you were picking a fight because I said that the criteria for excellence and physical facility are pretty standard. I never mentioned height.