Jump to content

Dancers & SEN


Actsingdance

Recommended Posts

I think this is a very interesting topic! Those who work in education or any areas dealing with young people or adults in a learning or social support role will be aware that as already stated, there are varying 'types' of ASD, and then there are people who are very talented who are very passionate/devoted to their talent that they prioritise this over all else which may or may not be a 'symptom' or ASD, then there are people who are shy, or people who don't appear to be shy but who find social interaction difficult so appear 'odd' or feel 'odd', and there are those who are naturally introverted so simply find the presence of other people challenging to different degrees.... I could go on....

 

Basically - everyone finds elements of life challenging, and every person is unique! This makes us all wonderfully individual, but for some reason society/medicine/human nature seems desperate to label each and every one of us and our personalities. To me, the term Special Needs is somewhat defunct - I believe every learner has special educational needs! Some need support, some need reassurance, some need challenging; everyone is special and everyone deserves the best for them.

 

This is certainly not to suggest, however, that there are not some people who do find life a LOT more challenging than others - when the 'day-to-day' tasks that most people would consider simple are difficult, or when certain facets of life that may make most people slightly unsettled bring on a debilitating amount of anxiety - I do recognise that in these cases a diagnosis of a condition is needed and is comforting.

 

I believe that it is not possible to say whether group of people (ie those with a statement or even tendency towards ASD) can be successful as dancers, merely because the spectrum is so vast, and each person is unique. I agree there are a similar traits which may need additional support, and could cause problems in certain situations but there will always be exceptions to any rule.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What an interesting post, Fullcontretemps. I do think that life in a school and company would be extremely challenging. Yes, the daily structured class would be manageable but the unpredictability of rehearsals, last minute changes to casting, partners and, sometimes, choreography and a constant stream of people rehearsing, choreographing etc would, I think, make a person with an ASD feel very anxious and uncomfortable. Flexibility and teamwork are vital in a ballet company. On top of that, most ballet companies (in the UK at least) tour a lot and being away from home and staying in unfamiliar surroundings (oftenB&Bs) would add extra stress.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would just like to add a bit about the diagnosis aspect.

 

One of these friends got her diagnosis reasonably early for her son when he was still at school about the age of 12(the one who is now more successful at least at work)

 

The other friend didn't get this diagnosis for her son until he was grown up in his late twenties I think.

 

In both cases though the relief of the diagnosis was so freeing......as they both knew something was not right for years and at least they didn't have to put it down to "bad parenting" which can be what one may do if you don't know why your child's behaviour is so unmanageable.

With a correct diagnosis you then can at least try to get in place suitable support and explain to others why certain things may happen.

Also many who suffer from Aspergers are very remorseful after an outburst of some sort and if people in the workplace knew more I do think more would be successful in keeping jobs. It is nearly always some social issue which loses the person the job rather than incompetence with the work.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm usually known under another username but have logged in for this under a different account - hope that's OK.

I so wondered if any members had any experience of having dancing children with SEN. Specifically how they cope with the pressure of vocational training, socialising/fitting in etc.

Trying to get back to the original post. Students Ive known of at vocational schools with SEN do, by and large, get more support and understanding than in mainstream schools. How they actually cope depends on the individual, their peers and timetable.

 

Socialising and interaction are probably the biggest issues but many people can find this hard even if they have no SEN. At least at vocational school a student is presumably finding solace in a particular talent and finding common ground with people in that field which makes for a more level playing field so to speak.

 

Ive taught dance to SEN for over 22 years and have experienced a huge range of abilities, spectrums, physical and mental issues. And I can honestly say all are unique individuals. Whilst they may have a SEN statement (and it is actually unbelievably difficult to get one) it doesnt follow that that they will all need or use, the same coping strategies or be dependent all their lives.

 

I do know that finding good friends is vital as is having the courage to be proud of ones individuality and accepting that not everyone can be mr or mrs popular. My sister ran a social group for teenage aspergers for a while which was a great success in helping them feel less isolated.

 

My experience has taught me that yes it is possible to be a fine actor/musician/dancer/sportsperson if an individual is on the autistic spectrum (such as aspergers). In fact I have found many to be ideal students because of their abilities. One of the most moving portayals I ever saw of Macbeth was from a lad with aspergers.

 

I am not sure this post really addresses the issues of coping as such if one has a dc with SEN but I am sure many of us have had problems with our dance mad children being thought odd because they didnt like football or the latest boy band. And my ds was very eccentric at times which did cause him problems, thankfully he had good support when needed.

 

There seems to be an assumption that a dc with SEN would then not cope with company life. Yes a professional life is unbelievably hard and I dont believe that anyone doesnt struggle but, well, we are all different anyway. Its what happens on stage thats important. Off stage, well some will party, others will quietly go home...

 

Sorry for the long post. But its a cause close to me. A family "friend" once suggested to my mum I was autistic.

It turned out to be deafness with a speech impediment to match... Fortunately my family had a can do attitude as opposed to all those who said Id never make it through training,never talk well enough to teach and definately not dance.

 

WRONG!

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But, hfbrew, do you actually know anyone with an ASD who is a professional ballet dancer? Obviously, I'm not asking you to give anyone's name. At schools and colleges students can expect extra support and perhaps some allowances or concessions because of their disability but I have a suspicion that a ballet company would not actually employ someone with an ASD as it would be too risky and the company would not have the resources to support a person with an ASD long term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But, hfbrew, do you actually know anyone with an ASD who is a professional ballet dancer? Obviously, I'm not asking you to give anyone's name. At schools and colleges students can expect extra support and perhaps some allowances or concessions because of their disability but I have a suspicion that a ballet company would not actually employ someone with an ASD as it would be too risky and the company would not have the resources to support a person with an ASD long term.

Yes. I did.

 

And people do not necessarily declare their disabilities in case of discrimination. They do not pose any more risk than any other person.

 

Extra resources are not needed if everyone is treated the same,hopefully decently!

 

Everyone is an unique human being and performing companies have a great wealth of individuals which gives each their unique character.

 

Some dancers need more support than others at times for all sorts of reasons.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some dancers need more support than others at times for all sorts of reasons.

 

This is why I prefer additional needs as it covers health (mental & physical), educational needs,divorce (parental or person),moving house, bereavement and a multitude of other circumstances which an educator or an enlightened employer will consider and take into account

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, there's plenty of food for thought for Actsingdance who originally asked the question. I'm not convinced that a person with an ASD disorder would cope with company life, but other people who hold the opposing view have greater knowledge of the dance world than me and so I will have to defer to their opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every individual is unique. It has already been pointed out that ASD is a very broad spectrum. How it affects individuals is unique to them. I do believe that a person who is affected mildly could cope in a company. There are any many professionals who are on the ASD line, and they are happy, confident and successful individuals with families of their own. Again each individual is unique so can't be judged as a one symptom fits all attitude.

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting and I have no idea whether additional needs would be supported/accepted in professional life as a dancer. But I do think that learning dance in a class setting is very beneficial. My daughters do not have an ASD (though they do have some autistic traits), but they are both dyspraxic and started doing gymnastics and dance as therapy for this - they had weak cores, and poor muscle tone. It has helped them enormously though they are doing it for fun and not as a potential profession . The gymnast is now strong and works well with her partners/team members. She has not made many friends there as she is very shy, but she is accepted and respected I think, and because she has to focus and work very hard, she has improved more than others who maybe don't "have" to work as hard. If that makes sense?

 

The dancer also has great focus, again because she has to have, and works very hard. I've never seen her give less than her all in a class, which certainly wasn't the case for me at her age when I was dancing, though dancing came far more naturally to me.   Most importantly they love it, and have so far coped well with some potentially stressful situations (exams. shows, gym comps, festivals etc). 

 

I think it would depend on the nature of the additional needs, but with the right combination of  talent, luck, and application that all students need, I think it would be possible for a student to succeed professionally.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a daughter who is dyspraxic who danced for years alongside her two sisters who have a natural aptitude for dance.  However hard she tried, her body wouldn't do what she wanted it to do, she struggled with concentration and was often criticised by her teacher, who although I had explained her difficulties, became frustrated.  Eventually, she gave up dancing altogether, feeling like she would never be as good as her sisters, with whom she had a natural competitiveness.   It is a shame because, had she been able to progress at her own pace, would probably still enjoy dancing for enjoyment.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a shame, angel. Mine can take longer to pick things up, and learn new movements which I guess could be difficult with more unset work in higher grades, but I think they have a natural aptitude for dance  (as well as dyspraxia), so with a lot of effort they can usually get there.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the age of 3 my son had language & understanding problems by the time he left his primary school he had been diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum.

At 11 he was lucky enough to go to White Lodge. We were very concerned as to how he would cope and mix with others. He settled very well after a few issue which we laugh at now. (Underwear is the same as pants and socks and it goes for washing on Tuesdays & Thursdays :)

His main problem was with vocational staff not understanding his special needs which was very difficult. He also had a problem picking up combinations quickly. He was assessed out after year 9. He was devastated. But still determined to dance.

He was offered scholarship places for Tring and Elmhurst and he chose to go to Elmhurst.

 

He still struggled, and we had one particular ballet teacher who was not the best at understanding any of the boys, let alone one with SN. He is no longer at the school.

There were staff that were very switched on and our thanks go out to Mr Pickford, Mr Kelly, & Mrs Morton for there support.

But Ds continued to struggle with being quick enough to pick up the combinations and we were always on edge come assessment time. But as he got older he learnt where his weakness were and how best to deal with it. 

So although a little late developing compared to his peers and staying on at Elmhurst for an extra term (he was offered an extra year) but at this point he was offered a ballet company in America, which he took. 3 day after his 20th birthday he flew alone to America.

He is enjoying himself, looking after himself and we are so very proud of what he has achieved.

If I'm honest the whole vocational training was hell for us as parents but with Ds determined to dance we had to support him.

ASD kids can do this but be prepared for a rough ride (but then it's not easy for any kid choosing this Vocation).

 

Annie

  • Like 24
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the age of 3 my son had language & understanding problems by the time he left his primary school he had been diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum.

At 11 he was lucky enough to go to White Lodge. We were very concerned as to how he would cope and mix with others. He settled very well after a few issue which we laugh at now. (Underwear is the same as pants and socks and it goes for washing on Tuesdays & Thursdays :)

His main problem was with vocational staff not understanding his special needs which was very difficult. He also had a problem picking up combinations quickly. He was assessed out after year 9. He was devastated. But still determined to dance.

He was offered scholarship places for Tring and Elmhurst and he chose to go to Elmhurst.

 

He still struggled, and we had one particular ballet teacher who was not the best at understanding any of the boys, let alone one with SN. He is no longer at the school.

There were staff that were very switched on and our thanks go out to Mr Pickford, Mr Kelly, & Mrs Morton for there support.

But Ds continued to struggle with being quick enough to pick up the combinations and we were always on edge come assessment time. But as he got older he learnt where his weakness were and how best to deal with it. 

So although a little late developing compared to his peers and staying on at Elmhurst for an extra term (he was offered an extra year) but at this point he was offered a ballet company in America, which he took. 3 day after his 20th birthday he flew alone to America.

He is enjoying himself, looking after himself and we are so very proud of what he has achieved.

If I'm honest the whole vocational training was hell for us as parents but with Ds determined to dance we had to support him.

ASD kids can do this but be prepared for a rough ride (but then it's not easy for any kid choosing this Vocation).

 

Annie

Thank you so much for sharing your story. And congratulations to your talented son. You are right, its not an easy ride for anyone let alone someone with ASD and I can well imagine how hard it must have been for you as a mum at times when people failed to understand.

 

How lucky your ds is to have had your support and belief, I hope others in similar situations will take heart from your story.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Annie you must all be sooooo proud of your son , he has done incredibly well despite his difficulties. What a positive outcome, which proves ASD student can achieve a very high standard. Well done to your son annie

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There have been some inspirational stories on this thread & it's given me so much to think about.

 

However I am coming to the conclusion that we have made a big mistake - albeit for the best of intentions.

 

Dd dreamed of studying dance full time in an environment with like minded children but its not happening. I just wonder at what point do I step in & pull her out. I hate to see her so unhappy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is very sad to hear. You sound like exceptional parents to have given your daughter the experiences she has had so far. If she is not enjoying herself and its upsetting her mental health then its probably time to stop. I do understand your predicament as my son who has ASD has just stopped representing England for cp football. I would have conversations with all departments of the school to make sure that nothing else can be done to make life easier for your dd. I would also have a conversation with your dd to make sure of what she wants. I would use a social story so she fully understands the consequences. I would also get her to do a positive and negative list about life at her school. I wish you and your dd best wishes with the decisions that you have to think about.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 years later...
On 11/05/2014 at 07:42, primrose said:

I think it depends how severe the ASD is and how it affects the person. Many people have very little understanding of autism. Many believe it is the isolated person who requires no friends and have no eye contact or language etc. Yes the extremes can be like this but mostly people on the spectrum do live independent lives even get married. There was a documentary about autism on the television a few weeks ago highlighting the strategies people with asd can put in place to help themselves. Quite a few were public speakers etc.

 

I also think having little to no eye contact, or needing to use forms of communication other than oral communication (sometimes people may also find it difficult to use oral communication during certain situations when they can communicate orally in other situations) does not necessarily mean not being able to live independently (although we are all in some way dependent on other people), and having eye contact or strong oral communication or language does not necessarily mean being able to live independently. I think if society was more accessible to people with an autism spectrum condition, more people with an autism spectrum condition would have better mental health and it would also be easier for people with an autism spectrum condition to participate fully in society. From what I have read it seems "masking" autism can also contribute to mental health difficulties, so I don't think "masking" autism should be the aim, and just because one does not appear to be autistic to other people does not necessarily mean they are not autistic or have no challenges related to autism or an inaccessible society.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...