Tracing my Irish Roots

[Jan McNulty]

Totally off topic but the HQ of the White Star Line was in the building next to the one in which I used to work.  It is currently called Albion House and had fallen on hard times but has been bought and is currently being converted into a boutique hotel.

 

The building I worked in was a rush job thrown up in the 1960s as was the other building adjacent to Albion House.  The original buildings had been bombed out of existence in the Second World War.  When we had an anniversary in work some years ago one of my colleagues did a lot of background research and the road that our building was in had been totally reduced to rubble by 1942.  She found press photographs of the rubble piles from that year.  Just a couple of years ago some work was being done in the road outside and a complete underground bomb shelter was found!  The archaeologists were brought in to record the detail before the road work was completed.  It is something of a miracle that Albion House survived.

[Anjuli_Bai]

Very interesting, Janet.  Gave me a sad smile to think that something from WW2 is considered archaeological.  I mean - I understand it - but its  like seeing my childhood toys in an antique shop (which I have.)

 

ok - back to Irish roots.......

[2dancersmum]

Dh has been following back our family trees and we have certainly discovered a big difference at times between family knowledge (passed down) and official records as far as we have been able to trace them.  I had to do a family tree at school when I was about 12 - just do back to your great grandparents if you can they told us.  I was in trouble when I was unable to hand it in the next lesson as it was not finished.  I had enlisted the help of my grandma and great grandma over the phone and discovered that I had over a hundred living relatives and countless deceased on my family tree and that my family had been recognised as being the largest in Britain in 1947 and in all the newspapers.  The look on my teachers face when I handed in my homework was priceless as it did not fit on the A4 sheet like everyone elses and I had only included any extra information or people other than those he had asked for.  Years later it served as a useful starting point but our research but there were lots of instances where the name someone was known by by the whole family was different to the official record - like Tim (real name Cyril), Dot (real name Mabel) but they were the same person as dates of birth, parents, siblings, dates of death all matched.

[Fonty]

that my family had been recognised as being the largest in Britain in 1947 and in all the newspapers.   Years later it served as a useful starting point but our research but there were lots of instances where the name someone was known by by the whole family was different to the official record - like Tim (real name Cyril), Dot (real name Mabel) but they were the same person as dates of birth, parents, siblings, dates of death all matched.

 

Good grief!  It sounds like a real life Russian novel, with all those nicknames.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Well,there`s a bit of an update for you all and possibly a major breakthrough.!!! I was ,yet again ,looking on the Ancestry.Co.UK website,and I decided to look at a different part of the website I had not been on before. I t was messages people post when they are looking for their ancestors.I never bothered before as I thought the chances of someone from MY family also looking for the same family,who are also using the same website was fairly remote. Well you could have knocked me down with a feather. There are at least 6 different people ,all looking for MY family. I checked,checked and double checked, and it is definately the same O`Briens. One of these posters even lists ,my grandparents 11 or so children and their dates of birth,including my father.! I couldn`t believe my luck. Although I have to say I thought there could be the possibility of others in the family doing the same thing,as there are i would imagine so many of them/us with there being 11 or so children.My own dad has 5 daughters,and he is just one of the 11.So goodness knows how many relations there are. I have sent messages to three of them. So exciting.!! I may not need the £35 an hour Professional Genealogist after all. He`ll be pleased then.Not.

[Patricia40]

I had a similar problem ...... My great grandparents were from Ballinamore in Co Leitram although my grandparents settled not far from you..... On the Newry Road in Banbridge. My g grandfather's name was William Burns...... Probably about as common a name as O'Brien! I found a website for Ballinamore and contacted them and got quite a lot of information. I did then discover g grandmother!s maiden name was quite unusual .......Tackaberry ......and when I googled it, lots of stuff came up! But I also just googled William Burns Ballinamore and it came up with all the people of that name that had died.......as you have a date it might be even easier. Also the Irish Genealogical Society looked promising...... I think there are a lot of things you can do without having to pay. Lots of luck with your search.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Thanks Patricia. Yes,Banbridge is only a 15 minute bus ride form me. I am just outside Newry,in a village in South Armagh called Camlough.

[aussie ballet mum]

My dh father is from a small island of west cork. There is a complete book with every family to my own family.

My dhs mother posted our children's names as children of Irish decent living in Australia.

 

I have been notorious for asking all our older dim members rather interesting details, for reasons like your original post. Trying to trace roots.

The skeletons that come out once who begin looking and asking are amazing and alarming.

 

You sound like you've hit on a good few trails.

It's time consuming but very rewarding to be able to trace roots.

In my dhs dads case, because it was an island the local authorities would only collect data once a year. So dates are inconsistent as are names. Dropping Os As etc for fear of reprisal when they left there homeland.

[Lisa O`Brien]

I`m back again. Well I contacted some of the people on the ancestry website who are tracing the same family tree as me. Only one lady got back to me; a cousin of mine,who seems very nice,so I must keep up some sort of correspondence with her. Exacerbated at my lack of luck in finding the birth place of my grandfather,Michael O`Brien,I contacted a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists. He never got back to me !  So undeterred ,last week I contacted another APG member,and this time she has replied to me. What`s great is that she gives a free assessment, looking at all the information given to her,then a couple of days later will get in touch again if she feels she will be able to realistically help. I`m sure,if I could just find my grandfather`s birth or baptism details,then I would be able to go back further myself. However as I`ve said before, with my grandfather`s name being Michael O`Brien, Georgina [the Genealogist] will have her work cut out. I will keep you posted.

Edited October 20, 2014 by thequays

[Lisa O`Brien]

I have [potentially] GREAT news. After such a short space of time,Georgina Scally, the Genealogist, thinks she has found the birth details of my grandfather.!!  This needs to be double checked and cross- referenced,so copies of my [she thinks] grandfather`s birth certificate and copies of 3 different John O`Brien`s [possibly my grandfather`s brother] have to be ordered from the Public Record Office in Dublin. The only way to discount 2 of the 3 John O`Brien`s is to actually see their birth certificate,and there is no other way around it other than to order copies. She was able to discount one line of enquiry that I had , almost straight away and explained to me why she is convinced I was barking up the wrong tree with it. I had initially contacted 2 other Genealogists,and neither of them got back to me. Georgina contacted me an hour after I emailed her, and comes across as being very friendly. One of these other Genealogists in Dublin charged a fee of 80 Euros AN HOUR for research work, not including any certificates. Georgina`s fee? 65 Euros INCLUSIVE. That`s 40 Euros for the ordering of the 4 Birth Certificates, plus her fee of 25 Euros. How fantastic is that????  I`m a happy bunny tonight. Oh, and I bought a rare Moulin Rouge programme from 27 January 1913 called "Tu m`fais Rougir", and it only cost 15 Euros.  A good day all round, methinks.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Well Georgina the Genealogist is doing a great job. She has completely discounted one line of enquiry I was looking at and ruled it out,explaining the reason why to me. She has spent a good few hours in the Public Record Office in Dublin searching various details,names,dates and entries. Now she thinks she has made a breakthrough and she thinks she has found my great grandfather,Patrick O`Brien,and more importantly,the name of his wife and Michael`s mother,Anne Dunne.From this information,she should now be able to go forward and find my grandfather`s birth or baptism details and date. Without the mother`s name it is impossible to find a correct birth entry using the father`s name alone. Definately born in Money,Kings County,which is now called County Offaly. Money is an obscure,remote place. I telephoned Offaly Tourist Board asking about any accommodation in that area ,or how to visit it. The woman on the phone had never even heard of it, and she has lived in Offaly all her life.! She asked around the office while I was still on the phone. Someone said it is just a series of fields in the middle of nowhere with nothing else around except for a few cows. Georgina,looking at the Griffiths Valuation records,noted the house Patrick O`Brien was living in in 1875 was worth 5 schillings. All the other houses on the same plot were valued at 15,20 or even 25 schillings. So from that I have to deduce that the house my great grandfather lived in must have been the lowliest of the low. Poor sod. Literally. No wonder his son, my grandfather Michael came over to England on a cattle boat ,im assuming for a better life. Quite just how wretched conditions must have been doesn`t bear thinking about.

Edited November 8, 2014 by thequays

[aussie ballet mum]

Wow. You've come along way in a short time with all these discoveries.

Wher to next

[Lisa O`Brien]

Now we have my grandfather,Michael`s mother`s name,the Genealogist is going to look for Michael`s birth details,also his father`s death date,which should be around the 1875 mark. If it can be found that the family originated in Money and have always come from there,it should be fairly straightforward to keep going back myself without the need for the Genealogist.[Hopefully]. I love all the detective work it entails and it is a hobby I really enjoy. So I don`t want her to completely take over and go all the way back as far as is possible for me. I had to hire her as I had hit a brick wall and could go no further back on my own,but that doesn`t mean I would want someone else to do the whole thing for me. Where would be the fun in that?!!

[Lisa O`Brien]

Georgina sent me photocopies of the microfilm she found with my grandfather and great grandfathers details on. My great grandfather,Patrick Brien [in those days in Ireland they often used to drop the "O" from their names to make themselves sound less Roman Catholic. There was terrible discrimination of Catholics,in England AND Ireland,and they often got a raw deal. So making their names sound less Catholic was often a ploy many families used.] Anyway,Patrick Brien died in Money on 26 April 1879. It says he had been a Pensioner in the Army; in the East India Company Service; a valuable piece of information I didn`t have before.  My grandfather,Michael  born on 28 January 1868 in Money. It transpires from the records my grandfather was one of 5 children,whereas before I had always thought he only had one brother. Interestingly,one of Michael`s brothers was called Laurence. Michael went on to call one of his 13 children Laurence; my father.!! The next step is to try and trace the details of my great grandfather`s marriage, to Anne Dunne. So far i`ve had no luck,but i`ve only been searching for a few hours. I keep getting this niggling feeling that they never got married,don`t know why. I know my grandfather Michael married his wife Phoebe in Salford ,Manchester in December 1896 after 3 of their children had already been born some years earlier.!!

[Lisa O`Brien]

Can`t believe I haven`t updated this since November ! Not an awful lot has been happening,to tell you the truth. Sometimes I take a breather from it all for a few months and then suddenly get the urge again. I was disappointed the Genealogist discovered my grandfather wasn`t from Bantry in West Cork as I`d always been led to believe. I visited the area about 10 years ago and it is spectacularly beautiful. You`re talking the most incredible scenery,waterfalls cascading out of the side of mountains that you drive past. Not just Bantry but the whole area. Kinsale,the gourmet capital of Ireland. Also Skibbereen,Clonakilty, Roscarberry. Such quaint,utterly beautiful picture perfect places. I swear if I won the Lottery [and i`d have to win a hell of a lot to be able to afford to live down there], i`d move there in a heartbeat. So, not only believing my grandfather was from Bantry but with also falling in love with the whole of West Cork,to say I was a bit disappointed to find out he was from County Offaly in the Irish Midlands is an understatement.!!  Nonetheless,the main thing was that I finally knew the truth where he originated from. His birth certificate says place of birth "Money". But I have since found out that it is now spelled Munny. I tried to continue with Georgina for as long as I could,but it was becoming too costly,and I had to pause proceeding for a few months. She was great and really understanding. I was hoping to have got back in touch with her before now for her to resume her research,but TBH,I always seem to have other things to spend the money on [who doesn`t nowadays??] However I am in regular contact,via Facebook with a distant cousin in Australia,and have also "discovered" another cousin who is still in the Manchester area,who seems really nice.It`s also nice to have found a male cousin who still has the O`Brien name.[incidentally my son Sean has recently changed his surname by Deed Poll to O`Brien in order to keep the O`Brien name alive,which was a lovely gesture by him.Cost me £300 mind you. Nothings cheap,is it? I was on You Tube looking at videos posted about the Kilcormac and Ballyboy areas,which is the [sort of] area where Munny is. I contacted the man who made the videos ,asking him if he wouldn`t mind telling me a bit more about what it was like. He got back to me, and seems like a very nice man. He was convinced my family were known as "The O`Briens of The Mall".[Makes them sound very grandiose!],as there was,literally no other O`Brien family around,anywhere. He said he was going to contact a Historian he knows who still lives in Munny and would ask her on my behalf if she knew any more. Well I was speaking to her on the phone tonight. She is 60, and unfortunately I interrupted her as she was trying to bring the cows in.!!! For a Townie like me that sounded so cool !!.She also agreed with the man from You Tube that it is definately MY O`Brien family not someone else`s. She said she has a photograph of them all from years ago and is going to send me a copy. She also said if I send her all the information I have in the post she will look over it all and try and help me in any way she can. She told me she will absolutely not in any way accept any money off me at all. She only requested that I send a bit of money to pay for the upkeep of the local church,which I will happily do. Such kind,helpful people, who have gone out of their way to help a stranger. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Lisa O`Brien

[Lisa O`Brien]

Started a new bit,as the last one was so long. I now want to go and visit this Munny place and have done for some months. But I don`t drive. It is in the countryside,in the middle of nowhere. All this week,I have been so desperate to go that I`ve been looking at various accommodation websites for hotels and Bed and Breakfasts in County Offaly. From speaking to someone who is familiar with a pub in Kilcormac,I have ascertained that it is going to be incredibly impractical to stay there. There is a website I found called Homestay.com,that supply host families to people wanting to stay in a particular area. They have families in various different countries. There was one couple in the area,and they were only charging 25 Euros a night including breakfast. You won`t get much cheaper than that. Unfortunately because it is the countryside I will be wanting to stay in, there isn`t a huge amount of choice. I would have been happy enough in a cheap hostel,as long as it was somewhere to put my head down at night. But outside the big cities like Dublin,Cork,Belfast, Derry, Limerick,etc, there are no hostels to be found. The bed and breakfasts are more often than not out in the countryside. Well they are in Offaly anyway. I could get a train from Dublin`s Heuston Station to the "capital" of the Midlands,Tullamore. It only takes 50 minutes,and there is everything you could need on your doorstep. To then get out to Kilcormac,which is about 3 miles outside of Munny,I would have to get a bus. There is only one bus every day,at one o`clock. There isn`t  a return one. So i`d be stuck out there. Even though in Kilcormac there is a pub and a pharmacy and a few houses,there is no transport,other than this bus. It continues taking people FROM Tullamore out to Kilcormac until 8 o`clock at night. Presumably so they can get to this lovely looking pub with a thatched roof called Dan and Molly`s. But how would I get back? There are no taxis out in Kilcormac. I then found the phone number of a taxi company back in Tullamore and phoned him up asking how much it would cost to get a taxi from Tullamore train station to Kilcormac. Between 25 and 30 Euros ONE WAY. Crikey. From there I would have to [somehow] get out to Munny as well.The taxi driver could take me. But if I am going to travel all that way from Newry to see this place called Munny where my grandfather was from, I`m going to want to spend longer there than 10 minutes,with the taxi running ,waiting to just take me all the way back again. So this has been my dilemma the last few days. Do I stay where i`m close to amenities in Tullamore[as well as being close to the Offaly Family History Centre] which should be very useful. I contacted this couple out in Kilcormac asking if they were available to take me and they haven`t got back to me so maybe they are away. All next week everywhere is fully booked up as it`s Heritage Week, and the whole area will be swarmed with people. At this stage it looks like I am going to have to leave it to the very end of the month and try and get down then. I think probably although far from being practical, I will, if I am able to, book the homestay with the couple. They have bicycles they lend out. Guess who hasn`t been on a bike since she was 13, and is now a very overweight nearly 48 year old?? Just trying to imagine how I will manage ,travelling everywhere on a bike,probably in the pouring rain. Another problem I might encounter with staying somewhere remote is the fact that this couple provide breakfast every morning. But I don`t know what I am going to eat for the rest of the time,or where I am going to buy the food to eat it. It could be there is a cafe nearby and I won`t know until I get there. But it would be nice,if I was spending hours every day cycling,to have more to eat than just breakfast. It`s times like this that I wish i`d continued with the driving lessons.!!!

Edited August 10, 2015 by Lisa O`Brien

[Fiz]

It's just occurred to me that my grandmother's maiden name was O'Brien...

[Lisa O`Brien]

Well I have booked into the Central Hotel Tullamore for three nights at the start of September. There are no tourist hostels,and the bed and breakfasts are all out in the countryside. Anyway,it`s £64 for two of the nights, and £60 for the last night I will be there,Friday.But this includes breakfast,so not too bad. In the end I decided to play it safe and opted for somewhere where I could have easy access to public records in the Offaly Historical Society in Tullamore,as well as transport. I was on the telephone to a local historian who actually lives in Munny. A man on You Tube put me in touch with her.  She is convinced my family are this family who everyone knew as "The O`Briens of The Mall". That`s the second person who has said that to me. She has photographs of the O`Briens from years ago still on her mantelpiece.!! The lady,Agnes,sounds very nice. As she was speaking to me on the phone,she was trying to get the cows into the shed.!!  She told me to write out all the details I have collected so far on the O`Briens, EG dates of Births,Deaths and Marriages,etc. and to send them to her in the post,which I have done. She said she will take a look at them and help me out all she can. Agnes absolutely refused to take any money off me. She said if and when I get down there [i told her in my letter I will be going down at the start of September],she said I can,if I like ,make a small donation to the local church roof fund, and she would be happy enough with that. Really looking forward to going now. I asked my 18 year old son,Sean, if he wanted to come along for a few days. He said no way as it sounded "Dead boring". Will leave him with plenty of food in and some money . I know for a fact he will have his 3 best mates staying over with him at the house,which I don`t mind. I wouldn`t want him to be on his own while i`m away. But I warned him to look after the place and not to be having blaring out music or for them all to be screaming and shouting their heads off at four in the morning every night.! 

[Lisa O`Brien]

Very excited to be going to County Offaly in 4 days time. The historian wrote to me. She has arranged for the man I first contacted via You Tube,who she knows,to collect me outside my hotel and drive me out to where she is,so I can meet her and spend a full day in the area. But this is going to be on the Saturday; the day I am coming home. So I emailed the woman who operates the bus company and she is going to also drive me out to Kilcormac/Munny on Thursday too. It will be nice to go out tothe area he was born on two seperate days rather than just the once. It is,after all, the reason for my trip in the first place. But while in Tullamore I will have a good look around and see if there are any cheap Bed and Breakfasts that maybe haven`t advertised on the internet,so if I maybe go down again in a couple of year`s time,I will be able to stay somewhere cheaper.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Well I had a great time in County Offaly. The main two people I met,Tom and Agnes,were truly wonderful. Tom drove me and Agnes all over the place,for miles. We went to the library in Tullamore,and we looked through these huge maps; original documents,of 1820. Agnes was able to point out exactly in Munny where the O`Brien`s house would have been.  Later that afternoon we drove out to it. It is just privets,and nothing else,but she told me this was the spot where the house would have stood when my grandfather was born there in the house in 1869. I was quite moved and I had a little cry. Agnes,bless her, put her arm around me and gave me a hug and told me i`m not the first to get emotional on finding their roots and I won`t be the last. We took lots of photographs of the privets,and Agnes took some on her camera too, and is going to send me her ones. Just a stones throw from the house is a small bridge. Underneath all the weeds and goodness knows what else,is a stream,although it was impossible to see the stream itself,there was so much "stuff" that had overgrown and covered the stream over the decades. But Agnes told me that my great grandparents in the 1840`s,`50`s,`60`s`70`s,and probably later,would have washed their clothes in that exact same stream. Wow.The last day I have to say,was for the first part of it anyway,a little disappointing. Tom was busy working on the farm so couldn`t drive me anywhere. A neighbour of Agnes very kindly offered to drive me and Agnes around,which don`t get me wrong,was incredibly kind of her. But do you know when someone is doing you a massive favour and because of it,you feel you can`t say anything? The whole of the day,from when she collected me at 11 AM until 6PM was wasted. The woman drove us where she wanted to go and didn`t ask. We visited her friends. We visited someone who was ill in hospital. She called in to the local supermarket to do some shopping and we ended up spending nearly an hour in the place as she kept bumping into people she knew and stopping to chat with each and every one of them.If I would have been staying for a week I wouldn`t have minded but I was only there for 3 days and really wanted to make the most of it. Towards about 5 o`clock the Heavens opened up and it was starting to get really dark. She had just driven us to look around a reservoir,which when we got there was closed. Anyway,I was going home the next morning,so I decided to say something.I asked her if we could possibly go to Ballyboy churchyard,which is 4 miles outside Kilcormac. She agreed.The church is now a ruin and has been since 1911. But Agnes had earlier on in the day told me she was convinced this churchyard was where my great grandparents would both be buried ,as it was the only churchyard for miles around. With lashing rain and fading light I walked around ,and Agnes,bless her did too,trying to read the headstones. But the O`Briens I think were desperately poor so probably wouldn`t have had a headstone,let alone one that was engraved. However I found a headstone and it was marked with a Dunne family. This was the maiden name of my great grand mother who came from that area. It was really hard to read though. It was covered in mud. So I pulled up a hand full of nearby wet grass and began wiping the headstone [which was lay down flat] .Was able to decipher the names and dates,so I took photos of it,just in case they are ancestors. But honestly,if there had been a house nearby and someone had happened to look out and see this woman in the pouring rain in fading light ,pulling up hand fulls of grass to clean a headstone,I don`t know what they would have thought.! But I decided I definately want to go back ,maybe in a few year`s time. Hopefully by then my son will be driving and he can take me.!

Edited September 15, 2015 by Lisa O`Brien

[Lisa O`Brien]

BTW,Agnes said the only records of exactly who is buried where in which plot ,which will tell us the exact spot my great grandparents are buried ,lies with the parish priest. Agnes told me he is new to the parish, and is very bad tempered and rude. She is currently also helping an American man find his ancestors and she told me every time the priest sees her coming to ask to look through the parish records,he rolls his eyes as if to say,"Oh God,it`s that woman come to annoy me again to look through the records". He doesn`t even try and conceal his annoyance at the whole thing,she said. She said she has already asked him ,explaining there was an Englishwoman who lives up North,who has been tracing her ancestors for the last 20 years. But so far,he hasn`t told her she can come in and look through the document. So I guess we`ll just have to wait. I asked Agnes if it might help if I was to write to the priest to ask him myself for permission for Agnes to view them. However she said it might be counter-productive,as she thinks it will backfire and annoy him too much,as he`ll think he is being pestered. How annoying .This man has in his possession a document that will tell us the exact location my great grandparents are buried and he can`t be bothered ! Never mind, patience,patience, Lisa !!!!

Edited September 15, 2015 by Lisa O`Brien