hfbrew Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Ah thank you Marianne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Oh no it's not! There is the possibility that the year 10 boy is a better dancer, has a more lyrical quality, has a better stage presence, [ad nauseam] than the older boy. It has happened before... Sorry BBB, but I am not sure how a year 10 boy at RBS can be a technically better dancer in absolute terms than a 6.2 boy at RBS (otherwise what is the extra 4 years training for?)? He can only be a better dancer relative to his age. That's why I was querying on what basis this competition is judged. I take the point that he could have more dance quality, stage presence etc., but again, that's why I asked on what basis the competition is judged. Most competitions have a large technical element, otherwise everyone would perform the easiest variation option. I agree that there are obviously rare exceptions to this e.g. Sergei Polunin at 15 was probably better technically and in all other ways than anyone else at 17, but he is rare. I would like to point out again that these posts are not related to anyone specifically, or imply that anyone is not deserving of their prize. I just find it interesting that so much store is set by these types of competitions and yet often they are subjective and the criteria for judging is not always clear. I think this is actually more important for those who don't get through to understand and not to go away with any impressions that they might not be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 But your post IS related to anyone specifically, Ribbons, and that is the Year 10 boy. How would you feel if someone was questioning your child's place in a competition? Cross, I should think. I know I would be. Of course Ballet is subjective and sometimes in any competition the judges see things we don't pick up on, or have differing opinions about what they are looking for - so do school selection panels, choreographers and ADs! That's Ballet, like it or don't. But in harking on about the fact that one boy got finals and another didn't, and why, do you think you're going to change anything? All you'll do is upset people. It's no different than someone complaining that Kenneth MacMillan chose a very young Darcey Bussell to create a ballet on, when there were many other older and more experienced existing Principals he could have used. He liked what he saw - just as the Judges obviously liked what they saw at YBDY. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sorry BBB, but I am not sure how a year 10 boy at RBS can be a technically better dancer in absolute terms than a 6.2 boy at RBS (otherwise what is the extra 4 years training for?)? He can only be a better dancer relative to his age. If you're not sure, how can you say with certainty that he is not. It is perfectly possible for a boy in year 10 to be more proficient than an older dancer (and the selection at YBDY seems to have confirmed that). Wasn't Núñez a professional member of a ballet company at 14, before she went on the RBS Upper School? Would you say there was no possibility that she was a better dancer than someone in the graduate class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 But your post IS related to anyone specifically, Ribbons, and that is the Year 10 boy. How would you feel if someone was questioning your child's place in a competition? Cross, I should think. I know I would be. Of course Ballet is subjective and sometimes in any competition the judges see things we don't pick up on, or have differing opinions about what they are looking for - so do school selection panels, choreographers and ADs! That's Ballet, like it or don't. But in harking on about the fact that one boy got finals and another didn't, and why, do you think you're going to change anything? All you'll do is upset people. It's no different than someone complaining that Kenneth MacMillan chose a very young Darcey Bussell to create a ballet on, when there were many other older and more experienced existing Principals he could have used. He liked what he saw - just as the Judges obviously liked what they saw at YBDY. My post was NOT related to any specific year 10 boy. I did not even know that a year 10 boy had got through when I wrote the original post - all I knew was a year 6.2 who everyone thinks is amazing, did not get selected for semis. My post asking how a year 10 could get selected over a 6.2 was generic as it happens every year several times and there are several examples, not limited to one person. It was NOT aimed at anyone specifically! It was a post about criteria for judging the competition and the example of year 10 vs. 6.2 was just an EXAMPLE. If you like you can substitute it for yr10 girl and 6.2 girl - I don't know if that is a real example or not either? I have NEVER suggested that someone does not deserve their place and yet again, I repeat that I am interested in the basis of judging these types of competition - mainly to help those who don't get through understand. I am NOT complaining either - merely seeking to understand the basis of the judging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) A younger dancer can be technically better than an older one but I imagine that this is rare where there is a substantial age gap. However, Ribbons does raise an interesting point about whether some sort of 'weighting' is applied according to age and what the judging criteria are.Of course, it should not be forgotten that it is all done to how the entrant performs on the day. However well regarded a student is at his/her school if s/he does not perform well on the day and does not appeal to the panel of judges (who are different to the teachers at his/her school) s/he will not progress to the next stage or win a prize. Edited March 4, 2014 by aileen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankruptMum Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Judging is subjective at times at sa local comp. Add to that a panel of opinions and diverse requirements you have a range of possible outcomes. Perhaps all comps should reveal its marking criteria to enable a clearer understanding of their decision making. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletqs Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Having sat on the panel for various dance comps and auditions I can imagine that when watching a group of very talented dancers the decision must be a very difficult one. Therefore they will, I expect, pick out the ones that over the course of classes and solos stand out as having that extra magic, musicality and consistency in all areas within the realms of their age, experience and capabilities. And it really can be as simple as that. But just my observation 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belljul Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Having sat on the panel for various dance comps and auditions I can imagine that when watching a group of very talented dancers the decision must be a very difficult one. Therefore they will, I expect, pick out the ones that over the course of classes and solos stand out as having that extra magic, musicality and consistency in all areas within the realms of their age, experience and capabilities. And it really can be as simple as that. But just my observation Just to add my pennies worth, (as a parent with the youngest child in the finals) we were told that the age of the competitors would be taken into account. Saying this, my son had to follow the same class exercises as the year above which was a challenge, but his solo was not as technically demanding as the older boys. I feel he must be "good for his age" and this is why he has been put through. Also to add that I'm not taking anything personally about the discussion. I am just so proud of his achievement 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerto Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Can anybody tell me what the standard was of the US boys that competed on Sunday? Im very interested to know of the up and coming male dancers of the future. Who and what were their solos and who stood out? Concerto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hello Concerto! Welcome to the Forum. I do hope we will hear more from you. I'm sure other people will be able to answer your query. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Can anybody tell me what the standard was of the US boys that competed on Sunday? Im very interested to know of the up and coming male dancers of the future. Who and what were their solos and who stood out? Concerto. Going by the class lists in last summer’s RBS programmes, only 5 Upper School boys took part in the semi-finals. I don’t know how others feel but I really don’t think it appropriate to comment publicly on their solos, especially as they didn’t all make it to the final. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerto Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hello Concerto! Welcome to the Forum. I do hope we will hear more from you. I'm sure other people will be able to answer your query. Going by the class lists in last summer’s RBS programmes, only 5 Upper School boys took part in the semi-finals. I don’t know how others feel but I really don’t think it appropriate to comment publicly on their solos, especially as they didn’t all make it to the final. Of course. Excuse me, it would be unfair to them if they happened to read this thread. Thank you Janet,there aren't many places to speak to like minded people about ballet and dance, I look forward to posting more. As I gather there was 3 US boys progressed to the final round on Saturday, is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) As I gather there was 3 US boys progressed to the final round on Saturday, is this correct? According to the class lists printed in the 2013 end of year performance programmes, that is correct. Edited March 5, 2014 by Bluebird 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Looking forward to tonight - and its always fun seeing who I know in the audience. I think Yaffa might have a ticket available if anyone still wants to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Very best of luck to everyone at the final tonight, and especially to the one we know! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Just repeating my post from the Doing Dance section for those who don't look there.... All boys in the 6 award places plus one with a special commendation just behind. Some ex-Tring and ex-Elmhurst boys in the winners. Well done everyone including the Elmhurst students doing flamenco and ENBS dancing during the deliberations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Thanks Julie - can't believe that all placings/awards were boys and not a single girl. Quite unusual. Who were the judges - was it the same 3 as last week-end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Here is the full list of prizes: YBDY 2014 First: Erik Woolhouse Second: Joseph Sissons Third: Nicholas Landon Sibley Dowell Award for a promising student with potential: Ricardo Castellanos Commendations: Jerome Barnes Scott McKenzie (Joseph Aumeer) Normally there are only two commendations but the Jury felt that Joseph Aumeer was so closely behind that he also deserved to be highly commended Jury Mavis Staines CM (Chairman) Deanne Bergsma Christopher Hampson Stephen Jefferies David Nixon OBE Kevin O'Hare Tamara Rojo Sarah Wildor Congratulations, not only to those who won prizes, but to all who took part. Edited March 8, 2014 by Bluebird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Thank you Bluebird :-) I was there but didn't make any notes! Unusual to have all boys in the placings but well deserved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spax Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Where did they train at lower school? Erik in Japan Joseph Tring then yr 11 WL Nicholas ? Jerome? Scott? Joseph Aumeer? Ricardo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Where did they train at lower school? Erik in Japan Joseph Tring then yr 11 WL Nicholas ? Jerome? Scott? Joseph Aumeer? Ricardo? Nicholas and Jerome are at White Lodge. Ricardo was, I believe, originally at Elmhurst but is now at White Lodge. Scott was also at White Lodge. Edited March 9, 2014 by Bluebird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thank you for that, Bluebird. I think we all knew that you were the one to help with that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spax Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Thank you Bluebird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Joseph Aumeer also started at Elmhurst, now at Royal. A good night for the old Elmhurst boys! And I believe Scott was a 'Billy' before he went to WL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Was Scott at Ballet School of Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belljul Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Yes, Scott was at the Dance School of Scotland until end year 9 I think. The boys were all superb and we were not surprised that they took all the prizes this year. The girls were lovely but no-one really stood out for the judges. My son danced his solos well but no mention for him this year. I was just so relieved he didn't fall over ha! He truly didn't mind at all as he was just so happy to be part of things. He was delighted to be dancing alongside all the boys in the year above whom he looks up to so much. My favourite was Nicholas Landon who came in second. What a talented dancer! Elmhurst and ENB were also fabulous in the interval. All in all a very special night to be part of. Also a treat to meet up with other balletco friends :-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerto Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Was Scott at Ballet School of Scotland? I believe Scott was a 'Billy' before joining The Dance School of Scotland and joining White Lodge in Year 11. He is a very talented young man and I look forward to seeing more in the future. All of the competitors were 1st class, which is so nice to see in the world of British ballet. It may also be worth noting that it is the second year in a row in which a non-British candidate has won YBDY. For me it almost defeats the purpose of the competition. Just a matter of opinion, although the winners were very deserving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Living the Dream Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 It may also be worth noting that it is the second year in a row in which a non-British candidate has won YBDY. For me it almost defeats the purpose of the competition. Just a matter of opinion, although the winners were very deserving. Even though Erik lived/trained in Japan his father is British and I'm sure that he was born in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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