taxi4ballet Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 What often trips me up when writing is the double letter consonant in a word - is there a rule for when that occurs? Such as the "c" in occurs or the "l' in spelling? I think there is method to all this madness - it keeps the foreigners confused. If there is a method, I don't know what it is! Plenty of doubles in 'Mississippi' too (we have family living there and after years and years I can now spell it at last)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 There is a rule although I cannot for the life of me remember what it is - but as with all rules in the English language there are probably as many exceptions to the rule as there are words that follow it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Rules are made to be broken, innit? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petunia Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I have a poem somewhere on the trickiness of the English language - spelling and pronunciation - that we used teaching English as a foreign language. to basically say there are no rules. Consider for example : plough, although, tough, hiccough or bow (and arrow) and bow (as in take a bow) or toe and tow or straight, late and trait English is definitely not an easy language. I think I know what you mean: http://tim.vanwerkhoven.org/public/images/english_spelling/poem_phonetic.pdf This is like riding a rollercoaster - I love it, but it makes me dizzy. Very good excercise though! I lack oppurtunity to speak English, but I read a lot and watch films... but I know: when I´ll be coming to England on Monday, at first I´ll just stand there with a mouth full of words, unable to get them out... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Yes Petunia that is the poem I meant thank you. Even a native English speaker has to think as they read that out - especially if you read it aloud to someone. Enjoy your visit to England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 ...and they still teach phonics and 'sounding out' words to small children It really doesn't work. C-A-T and C-A-R No wonder they get confused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 And then there are those funny words for which the singular and the plural are the same: deer moose elk as opposed to: dog/dogs cat/cats or the times when there is a plural but we still use the singular as in: "How many fish are in the sea?" rather than: "How many fishes are in the sea?" About phonics as a teaching method....I know that English has many vagaries as to sound - but in my experience phonics - with all its problems - works better than any other method of which I am aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 About phonics as a teaching method....I know that English has many vagaries as to sound - but in my experience phonics - with all its problems - works better than any other method of which I am aware. My dh teaches music privately, and frequently he finds that some of his pupils (age 7-9ish) really struggle with learning the scales and notes. He might say, for instance: "and now play a G" and they won't have a clue what he is talking about, and just look at him blankly. It turns out that even by this age they still don't know the names of the letters, and are still saying them phonically, so now he has to adapt his teaching methods depending on whether the pupil has learned the alphabet properly or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 My dh teaches music privately, and frequently he finds that some of his pupils (age 7-9ish) really struggle with learning the scales and notes. He might say, for instance: "and now play a G" and they won't have a clue what he is talking about, and just look at him blankly. It turns out that even by this age they still don't know the names of the letters, and are still saying them phonically, so now he has to adapt his teaching methods depending on whether the pupil has learned the alphabet properly or not. I recall in kindergarten learning the alphabet - saying "A" as the teacher pointed to an "A" on a flip board..and then "B" - etc. Only after learning the names of the letters were they assigned a sound. My sister who is 9 yrs younger than I was taught differently - the schools were teaching "sight/say" - see a word and saying it with no means of "attacking" the word since phonics was no longer taught. By the end of first grade she could barely read. Knowing she was a bright chld - my mother was horrified. Since she worked full time, she asked me (age 13) to spend the summer months teaching her to read. i made up flip cards with the simple sounds of the letters - purposely ignoring the many alternate sounds for the same letter - and then formed them into simple words and thence into sentences. By the time school started in Sept. she could read. She went on to graduate with a Master's Degree Magna Cum Laude. When my son was about to enter school I called district headquarters to ask what method they used to teach reading. When they refused (!) to tell me -- I went to the public library and got a basic reader, made up once again the flip cards and when he entered kindergarten he could read. I was taking no chances with the education system (for which I pay dearly) messing up my son's reading. Phonics can be wrongly taught - which might be what you are seeing. But it's the best I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straceydor Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Languages have evolved and devolved over the years both written and spoken. English spellings were optional until after the print press. Britain is only a small country but different parts have different words for different things and even your age and peers and family will have sayings that only apply to yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 My dh teaches music privately, and frequently he finds that some of his pupils (age 7-9ish) really struggle with learning the scales and notes. He might say, for instance: "and now play a G" and they won't have a clue what he is talking about, and just look at him blankly. It turns out that even by this age they still don't know the names of the letters, and are still saying them phonically, so now he has to adapt his teaching methods depending on whether the pupil has learned the alphabet properly or not. might as well teach them notes in Italian, then! At least you can teach them the song of doe - rei - me or whatever that lovely Sound of Music song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Not easy for a beginner to play though, and most of them won't sing - he's tried that! Incidentally that's another thing... he says that hardly any children seem to know easy traditional songs and rhymes any more, they don't learn them at school like we did in the good old days! He will sing or play one, and get a totally blank look in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Not easy for a beginner to play though, and most of them won't sing - he's tried that! Incidentally that's another thing... he says that hardly any children seem to know easy traditional songs and rhymes any more, they don't learn them at school like we did in the good old days! He will sing or play one, and get a totally blank look in return. My gosh! Don't people sing at home with their parents any more??? I guess time is ripe for develping some educational Karaoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Words which have changed meaning within my life time: gay - used to mean having a good time neat - as opposed to messy - now it can mean "good" as in: "We had a neat time." cool - was a temperature a step before "cold." Now a "cool" person is "in" or even "hot." "Hot" and "cool" have almost merged in describing a person or a situation. New iconic phrases: "Houston, we have a problem." "Make my day." "Beam me up." And a whole new slew crew of word combinations using the same words: I am in line - one is standing in a line of human beings waiting for something I am on the line - one is using the telephone I am online - one is using the computer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petunia Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 How authors from Dickens to Dr Seuss invented the words we use every dayhttp://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/17/authors-invented-words-used-every-day-cojones-meme-nerd As a lover and collector of words I have to share this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 How authors from Dickens to Dr Seuss invented the words we use every day http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/17/authors-invented-words-used-every-day-cojones-meme-nerd As a lover and collector of words I have to share this! Great article - thanks for posting! It seems the internet (itself an interesting word) seems to invent words everyday. blog going viral twitter (not the sound of a bird) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melody Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 English is certainly the strangest language. Why, for instance, does 'alight' mean both 'to get off a train' and 'to be on fire'? English is derived from a lot of different sources. I assume the two meanings have different roots but ended up sounding the same through a process of convergent evolution or something. Must be so much fun trying to teach English to people from other countries who expect it to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 There seems to be a need for a word which we would use when addressing a small group of people in a casual setting. The phrase "you guys" or "you lot" is used but it seems an awkward (and rather inelegant) solution. "Folks" can be used but can be also awkward and would also need the word "you" in front of it as in: "What do you folks want to do?" "Y'all or "you all" is another iteration - but it all points (it seems to me) to the need for a word which would take care of this need. "What would everyone like to do?" It certainly is a possibility - however, if one is sitting with friends and says to the entire group: : "Are you ladies and gentlemen going to have pizza?" It's a bit formal. As opposed to: "Are you guys/lot/y'all going to have pizza?" "Is anyone having pizza?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 "What would everyone like to do?" "Is anyone having pizza?" Your response is, of course, correct - and simple. But.. it loses a bit of the casual informality of the other forms. While "you guys/folks/lot" is awkward - it does convey a nuance of informality. It doesn't sound like voting is about to begin on what everyone wants to do. If one says to a group of people: "What does everyone want to do?" it tends to convey the feeling that whoever answers the question is speaking for everyone. Most people hesitate to do that. I would bet that if you had two groups of people and one group was asked: "What does everyone want to do?" and the other group was asked: "What do you guys/folks/lot want to do?" that you would get more spontaneous responses from the second group. Would be interesting to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 How about just "Who's having pizza? "? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 There are times - though each seems to be speaking the same language - communication is not taking place...... We stopped at a roadside ice cream shop. This is the actual conversation, while a lengthy line of customers stretched out behind us: She - What would you like? Me: I would like some vanilla and some chocolate in a small bowl. She: We don't have bowls. Me: What do you have? She: Cones or cups. Me: OK - some vanilla and chocolate in a cup. She: You want both dips? Me: Yes She: We can't do that - the chocolate won't cover both. Me: The chocolate doesn't have to cover both - just chocolate and vanilla side by side. She: You don't want the dips? Me: Dips? She: we dip it in melted chocolate. Me: No - I don't want melted chocolate. Me: Let's try this again. Do you have vanilla? She: Yes Me: Do you have chocolate? She: Yes. Me: Can I have one of each flavor ice cream in a cup? She: Well, we have the flavors but not ice cream. Me: You don't have ice cream?? (looking around at all the people sitting at tables eating ice cream) She: No - we don't. Me: Well, what are all these people eating? She: Soft serve ice cream. Me: Ok - Can I have some vanilla and some chocolate soft serve ice cream in a cup? She: Next time you should ask for "half 'n half undipped in a cup." Me: I'll be careful to remember that. (I let my husband deal with paying the bill) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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