Vadim Muntagirov to join The Royal Ballet as a Principal dancer

[capybara]

This thread has now got a whole load better. What with some of the reaction to Vadim joining and Dawid leaving the Royal Ballet I was beginning to feel that we at balletcoforum had rather lost the plot, Maybe we should reflect on this and make a combined decision to stick to commenting on performances (for which there will be plenty of opportunity with the wonderful Vadim) and avoid the more personal stuff in future..

[Don Q Fan]

As Friedemann Vogel will be with ENB for R&J it is my reckoning he will partner Daria as well as she and Friedemann were fabulous together in Swan Lake at Versailles and then truly amazing in Manon. They already have a great partnership so fingers xd!!

As for Vadim's vacancy at ENB...Sergei Polunin perhaps? There was talk that Tamara may be able to get him to at least guest with ENB, of course there are plenty of stars in the making at ENB anyway. Interesting to see what happens!

[annamicro]

This thread has now got a whole load better. What with some of the reaction to Vadim joining and Dawid leaving the Royal Ballet I was beginning to feel that we at balletcoforum had rather lost the plot, Maybe we should reflect on this and make a combined decision to stick to commenting on performances (for which there will be plenty of opportunity with the wonderful Vadim) and avoid the more personal stuff in future..

 

I'd also start calling them Muntagirov and Trzensimiech (not the easiest names!) and the same for the other dancers, since other ways seem to imply an intimacy that sounds unlikely as much as it helps to lose the sense of position and proportion... :-)

[capybara]

As Friedemann Vogel will be with ENB for R&J it is my reckoning he will partner Daria as well as she and Friedemann were fabulous together in Swan Lake at Versailles and then truly amazing in Manon. They already have a great partnership so fingers xd!!

 

 

 Some re-jigging of the R&J casting will be necessary if that partnership is to be.  As it stands,  Friedemann is already dancing with  Alina on the evening of one of Daria's performances.

[capybara]

I'd also start calling them Muntagirov and Trzensimiech (not the easiest names!) and the same for the other dancers, since other ways seem to imply an intimacy that sounds unlikely as much as it helps to lose the sense of position and proportion... :-)

 

I agree.  Bad habits on my part, I'm afraid. The problem is that, nowadays, everyone uses given names and, when a thread is already running over several pages and the full names have been used earlier, one tends to slip into typing the easiest option.

[aileen]

It's a big assumption that Vogel is available for the whole of the run (his performances with Cojacaru are two days apart at the beginning of the run) and willing to dance five performances. No doubt we will hear about casting in due course.

[BristolBillyBob]

All very interesting indeed. It seems a bit tit-for-tat at the moment between ENB and RB doesn't it? 

 

Personally, I just think it's great that all these world-class dancers are coming to/staying in the UK! I can go and watch some of the best dancers in the world, all within two hours drive of my front door. That's freakin' awesome.

[alison]

I know I mentioned this when the Mikhailovsky "acquired" Osipova and Vasiliev, but ballet hirings at the moment seem to be becoming more and more like football. Does the transfer window close on Friday, I wonder, and/or will there be more surprises to come?

[aileen]

An interesting comparison, Alison. I understand that one of the reasons that Manchester United was so successful in the Beckham era was that many of the players started off in the academy and then moved into the team together as youngsters. Less prestigious clubs have the problem of training teenagers, often for many years and at their (ie the clubs') expense, in their academies only to see them poached by larger clubs, although they do receive some compensated from the acquiring clubs.

[MAB]

But the analogy breaks down if we are alluding to Muntagirov as he trained for three years at RBS anyway, so you could say he is back to the company he was created for.

[aileen]

I wasn't specifically referring to Vadim but, of course, he was nurtured and developed to become the dancer that he is today by ENB rather than by the RB which is benefitting from ENB's training. The same point can be made about Matthew Golding and DNB. I don't think that one can say that the RBS 'creates' dancers for the company any more even if it once did.

[Coated]

Does it matter? Muntagirov's talent is neither bestowed by RB nor ENB, if anything we need to thank his parents for 'creating' him, and all of his previous teachers/companies/colleagues for helping him fine-tune his awesome abilities.

[Nina G.]

I wasn't specifically referring to Vadim but, of course, he was nurtured and developed to become the dancer that he is today by ENB rather than by the RB which is benefitting from ENB's training. The same point can be made about Matthew Golding and DNB. I don't think that one can say that the RBS 'creates' dancers for the company any more even if it once did.

 

 

Sorry but I disagree with your last sentence Aileen.

 

The RBS still "creates" great dancers with huge potential. The problem arises once those top graduates join the RB Company, where their career greatly depends on the chances they are given or not given. The nurturing/coaching of these talented young dancers has to come from within the Company, the RBS do "their bit" until they Graduate.

 

IMO, if an RBS graduate joins the ENB, or any UK/ European company instead of RB, they are given much faster, better opportunities to develop (Vadim is an example). For years an RBS graduate somehow seemed to stagnate in the Company whilst dancers who'd trained elsewhere were nurtured instead (ballet critic Mr. Luke Jennings has covered this issue in the past) thus giving the impression the RBS no longer creates dancers for the Company.

 

If we need any proof that the RBS do create Company dancers: look no further than the Giselle "Pas de Six" dancers of last night: five out of six trained at the RBS (two females trained both at White Lodge and the Upper School, three males at the Upper School).

[MAB]

Does it matter? Muntagirov's talent is neither bestowed by RB nor ENB, if anything we need to thank his parents for 'creating' him, and all of his previous teachers/companies/colleagues for helping him fine-tune his awesome abilities.

Absolutely.  And I note he is from Chelybinsk, a town not a million miles away from Ufa, where Rudolf Nureyev hailed from, perhaps there is something in the air!

[aileen]

Nina, I don't follow the RB closely but recently there seems to have been a change in policy whereby junior dancers, including some new joiners, are given the opportunity to dance quite substantial roles; two of the Myrthas and the Pas de Six dancers in the current production of Giselle are examples of this.

[alison]

I get the impression the number of absences may have been a partial reason for this, although not necessarily in the case you mention.

[Bruce Wall]

I get the impression the number of absences may have been a partial reason for this, although not necessarily in the case you mention.

 

Alison, I do think credit - where earned - should be given to Kevin O'Hare for attempting to improve matters in this regard for his forward successor as opposed to the situation he was left by the last Director.  I, for one, applaud his increased intake from the RBS into the company at the lowest rank.  In this way he has made it clear that he intends to build the Company from the bottom up.  This will, of course, take time to reach fruition.  I would hope that a tradition of giving new joiners greater opportunities earlier on - where warranted - is one that might continue.  I agree that the pas de six in the Osipova performances (and I mark those out as they are the only ones I have personally seen thus far) was very fine and marked a distinct improvement from some occasions in the past if my memory serves.  Could an increase in sharpened focused coaching have been responsible for this as well?  I would assume we will have a ready answer in a short period of time.  (David T's comment in an opposite direction is certainly a matter of concern if it stretches beyond his own personal circumstance.)  In any event, these traditions (e.g., securing the Company's foundation at the earliest juncture) point unto a healthy direction (whereas the lack of a Company lunch break for the dancers does not).  If we are to support the criticism then we surely must applaud the positive sides when acknowledging/evaluating Mr. O'Hare's leadership.  

Edited January 29, 2014 by Meunier

[capybara]

  I, for one, applaud his increased intake from the RBS into the company at the lowest rank.  In this way he has made it clear that he intends to build the Company from the bottom up.  This will, of course, take time to reach fruition.  I would hope that a tradition of giving new joiners greater opportunities earlier on - where warranted - is one that might continue.  

 

I couldn't agree more. It is an added pleasure for the regular audience to be able to follow the development of promising young dancers.

[Sophoife]

 

The RBS still "creates" great dancers with huge potential. The problem arises once those top graduates join the RB Company, where their career greatly depends on the chances they are given or not given. The nurturing/coaching of these talented young dancers has to come from within the Company, the RBS do "their bit" until they Graduate.

 

IMO, if an RBS graduate joins the ENB, or any UK/ European company instead of RB, they are given much faster, better opportunities to develop (Vadim is an example). For years an RBS graduate somehow seemed to stagnate in the Company whilst dancers who'd trained elsewhere were nurtured instead (ballet critic Mr. Luke Jennings has covered this issue in the past) thus giving the impression the RBS no longer creates dancers for the Company.

 

 

 

A similar situation: Xander Parish, who danced with the RB corps de ballet for five years or thereabouts, "never danced a solo", and had "done...very little partnering work" (http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_10/jul10/interview_xander_parish.htm) in that time. Accepting Fateyev's offer saw him start as Béranger in Raymonda and the Poet in Les Sylphides, four years on still listed as coryphée but repertoire now includes Albrecht, Romeo, Paris, Apollo, and the Slave in Schéhérazade. Would he have eventually been offered or taught these roles in London? We'll never know

 

Down here, when The Australian Ballet (TAB) employs graduates of the Australian Ballet School (ABS), from my audience point of view it seems as if most are taken in to fill out the corps, with maybe one dancer in a dozen given the chances to have a "Career".

 

Recent examples: Chengwu Guo (teenage Li in film of Mao's Last Dancer) who joined TAB in 2008 from ABS (Prix de Lausanne brought him here), was promoted to coryphée in September 2010 with effect from January 2011, soloist from January 2012, senior artist in April 2013, and principal in November 2013 after a fairly stunning La Sylphide. Ako Kondo, who has been promoted to senior artist effective January 2014, joined TAB in 2010 out of ABS. Her rise to senior artist is even quicker than his! Adam Bull joined TAB in 2002 fresh out of ABS, was a soloist by 2006, senior artist in January 2008 and principal in June 2008.

 

_{- please note my emphasis on things being my opinion and my opinion only}

Edited January 29, 2014 by Sophoife

[Jan McNulty]

Welcome to the Forum, Sophoife.

 

I hope you will keep us up to date on all things TAB (and, because he was a favourite of mine at BRB, any news on Chris Rodgers-Wilson would be very welcome!).

[Pas de Quatre]

I note what you are saying Sophoife, but have to disagree about your use of "career".  Anyone who actually finds a job to earn their living in the dance world already has a career!  Of course everyone has dreams of making it higher up the ladder.  But just being in the corps is already a success story.

[Sophoife]

Hi Pas de Quatre, when I said "Career" I specially put the capital C in there, maybe I should have put "Big Career" to clarify my thought process

 

Absolutely, any dancer who has a job dancing (earning a living is debatable, especially in some parts where a "full time job" is only for 40 weeks a year!), that dancer has a career. I was trying to say that only some are given the chances to stand out.

 

Janet, thanks for your welcome - I joined about six months ago, but have read the forum for a number of years.

 

Chris Rodgers-Wilson is utterly lovely, he's the most recent winner of the Telstra Ballet Dancer Award (a fairly certain path to Principal), always a delight to watch. Was off stage for a few months last year due to an injury but is back now.

[aileen]

Sophoife, I know what you're getting at. I believe that I read somewhere that at either the Bolshoi or the Mariinsky young dancers are explicitly divided into corps dancers and potential principals and trained accordingly.

[aileen]

I really do feel that ENB needs to change its casting for the Madrid tour and for R&J. It's misleading to state that Muntagirov will be dancing when it is known for certain that he will not be.

[capybara]

Today's Dance Links includes a piece by Rupert Christiansen which seems to me to be unfair to both Kevin O'Hare and Tamara Rojo. 

 

What is it with these Telegraph journalists at the moment?

Edited January 29, 2014 by capybara

[aileen]

I think that Graham Watts' piece, in yesterday's links, gives an interesting and more nuanced view on Muntagirov's move and ENB in general.

[MAB]

I really do feel that ENB needs to change its casting for the Madrid tour and for R&J. It's misleading to state that Muntagirov will be dancing when it is known for certain that he will not be.

 

 

Do you actually have tickets for this?  You've mentioned Madrid several times now.

 

I'm going to Paris at the weekend, when I made the arrangements it was to see Kolesnikova dance Juliet, but she has cancelled so I will see a rank and file company member instead.  Disappointing to be sure, but Paris is a wonderful city to spend a weekend in as is Madrid, just enjoy the trip, plenty to do in Madrid and I recommend the Thyssen Gallery which I preferred to the Prado.  Go and enjoy the city - and ENB's other excellent dancers.

[Coated]

It seems that the Telegraph is attempting to stoke up a level of rivalry that does not exist. I assume they think it will sell papers. I'm not part of their normal demographic but would occasionally read their ballet commentary.  I won't bother again since I'm not a great fan of snide speculation.

[loveclassics]

Today's Dance Links includes a piece by Rupert Christiansen which seems to me to be unfair to both Kevin O'Hare and Tamara Rojo. 

 

What is it with these Telegraph journalists at the moment?

The great British press has a long tradition of damning the native product with faint praise: in summary 'must try harder' seems to be the main message.  'Well done us' is simply not said, even when deserved.

 

That said, the Telegraph's dance critics always seem to be much harder on the RB than any other company.  When Ismene Brown was the dance critic she rarely had a good word to say for its dancers and her predecessor, Nicolas Dromgoole, was similarly scathing. 

 

Linda

[MAB]

The great British press has a long tradition of damning the native product with faint praise: in summary 'must try harder' seems to be the main message.  'Well done us' is simply not said, even when deserved.

 

That said, the Telegraph's dance critics always seem to be much harder on the RB than any other company.  When Ismene Brown was the dance critic she rarely had a good word to say for its dancers and her predecessor, Nicolas Dromgoole, was similarly scathing. 

 

Linda

If you think that Ismene Brown gives the RB a hard time, you should read what she writes about the Bolshoi!

 

I sometimes think the only qualification for a dance critic in Britain is to not like ballet, don't worry though, happily the internet will kill the lot of them off.

[aileen]

MAB, I don't have tickets for the Madrid tour but that's not the point. Some people do book for certain casts and when it is known for certain that that cast will not be performing the advertised casting should be changed as soon as possible. Regarding pregnancy, that is a different situation; out of consideration for the ballerina I would not expect a change in casting to be announced many moths or even weeks in advance, for obvious reasons. I can't see RB regulars being happy about booking for, say, Osipova and then finding out later that she was never going to be dancing because she had a guest appearance elsewhere.

[Angela]

happily the internet will kill the lot of them off.

 

Yeah, then we can read much, much more of the happy fan stuff

[Nina G.]

The great British press has a long tradition of damning the native product with faint praise: in summary 'must try harder' seems to be the main message.  'Well done us' is simply not said, even when deserved.

 

That said, the Telegraph's dance critics always seem to be much harder on the RB than any other company.  When Ismene Brown was the dance critic she rarely had a good word to say for its dancers and her predecessor, Nicolas Dromgoole, was similarly scathing. 

 

Linda

I really don't call most of the Telegraph's articles serious journalism, less even the articles written by their so-called Ballet Critics.

 It all comes over as very immature, as if they are out on a mission. What for? 

Seriously disappointed in R. Christiansen's article of today. Can we please have some balanced articles instead of cheap sensationalism, and highlight and celebrate all our fabulous Ballet companies and talent here in UK.