Recent graduate destinations from UK vocational ballet schools

[Aurora]

I suspect that many overseas students offered places at RBS and possibly other British schools see it as one of the best schools in the world and feel they have to take advantage of it.

Of course but I think the point is that the schools should accept more British students, not that the international students shouldn't audition in the first place.

 

Look at the bolshoi, I'm pretty sure the majority of their students are Russian, why can't British schools do the same? If british students were good enough to get into (and graduate from) lower school then surely they're good enough to get into upper school. I personally think they should take at least half of their students from Britain but obviously there are many varied opinions on this.

[aileen]

It is my understanding that Paris Opera Ballet is almost entirely made up of French dancers because the company draws the majority of its dancers from its own school which is almost entirely made up of French students.

[Anna C]

The problem for me still seems to be the very small likelihood of British students progessing through our school system and gaining a contract with a British company at the end of their training.

 

This is nothing to do with "foreign names" - it's a matter of moments to look at a dancer's bio and see where he or she trained - but more whether there is a flaw in our system of selection, our training, and whether our schools are consistently producing the type of dancers that our companies are looking for.

 

I examine this issue not out of any sense of xenophobia, but to weigh up the likelihood of my daughter getting a place at Vocational School, completing that training, and eventually getting a contract with any ballet company.

 

Things are so fluid now and it seems that old ideas - such as the link between certain schools and companies - can no longer be relied upon. I know Luke Jennings touched upon the issue with his article about RBS, but in my opinion if no students from ENBS are being taken into ENB yet dancers from other schools are - and ditto Central to Northern, Elmhurst to BRB - there is a problem somewhere in our system.

[Julie 2 Milner]

There is absolutely no doubt that when auditioning for companies having the words "Royal Ballet" on your CV is a huge plus. It's instantly recognisable which sadly other schools aren't. Bit like having a top Uni or Oxbridge.

 

Interestingly I asked my son whether he felt the RBS should take more UK students to Upper School and he wasn't convinced at all. Taking that then into the Company and ENB etc he said he didn't think there should be any compulsion to take UK dancers. His view was you want your company to be the best it can be and therefore no place for quotas.

[Julie 2 Milner]

Re POB I think if you look at French companies as a whole they are more "French" than say a German co is "German". The EU is wonderful for dancers (no political discussion here as to whether it is great for us!) as they can work easily in other countries but certainly my impression is France does not embrace this as much as other countries.

[balletla]

There is absolutely no doubt that when auditioning for companies having the words "Royal Ballet" on your CV is a huge plus. It's instantly recognisable which sadly other schools aren't. Bit like having a top Uni or Oxbridge.

 

Interestingly I asked my son whether he felt the RBS should take more UK students to Upper School and he wasn't convinced at all. Taking that then into the Company and ENB etc he said he didn't think there should be any compulsion to take UK dancers. His view was you want your company to be the best it can be and therefore no place for quotas.

 

I think everyone agrees that companies should take the best dancers, regardless of where they come from. The real question is why British dancers don't seem to be the best when compared to other students from around the world who seem to take a disproportionate number of upper school and then company places.

[Aurora]

Re POB I think if you look at French companies as a whole they are more "French" than say a German co is "German". The EU is wonderful for dancers (no political discussion here as to whether it is great for us!) as they can work easily in other countries but certainly my impression is France does not embrace this as much as other countries.

Totally agree, having lived there briefly myself and my parents having lived there for 13 years I can confirm first hand that the French take care of their own first and foremost! Nothing wrong with that of course but it's definitely the case! Wonder why can't do just a little bit more of that in the uk.

[JulieW]

Natalma - we weren't making assumptions based on the "look" of the names on the list (although I suppose it could've sounded like that at the start) - from knowing the students (directly or indirectly), many of us know the nationalities of the students.

 

Moving on.... can we please not carry on this discussion here - I'd like to keep this thread to stick to it's title. If you would like to discuss other subjects there are other threads, or you could start a new one.

[All4dancers]

I will admit to being totally naive about this subject, being very new to the ballet world, but I was wondering if British schools would produce more exceptional dancers if they were not so fixated on body type in very young dancers, but more their ability to dance? I'm not saying that the dancers that British schools produce aren't exceptional, just that there could possibly be more of them if body type wasn't such an issue.

[Anna C]

Especially when aspects of physique can be changed with physio prescribed exercises. Plus bodies can change! Or a child could be assessed out during the teenage growth spurt, only to find that by 16 they are fine.

[Lindsay]

Well today the Royal Ballet has taken on two RBS students - one who is British and came the whole way through both Lower and Upper schools and one non-British who has spent three years in the Upper School. In my view this is as it should be - nationality should not be a factor. The school producing dancers in a "style" to suit the company should be. Hopefully that is something which will happen more consistently under the new RB director.

[hfbrew]

Thats brilliant news. Theres this worrying perception that somehow British students, or British trained students are not as good as other internationals which is simply not true.

 

International students can be found at all our vocational schools which are still by and large made up of mainly British students. (except posssibility ENBS but I don't know for sure.) And isn't it better for our British students to know that they are in a course based on merit not because of Nationality?

 

I been very lucky to be in a position that I've seen lots of young dancers at lots of schools and the British dancers are certainly holding their own. I've known some very talented individuals choose to go abroad for their first contracts rather than be in a large British company- it works both ways.

 

Sadly the fact of the matter is is that there are simply too few jobs, especially for classical dancers in Britain. But rather encouragingly lots of British trained students of my sons age who were at British vocational schools from year 7, are in work both here and abroad. I can actually think of eight who are in British companies including Royal and ENB!

 

Something I've learnt from the past 12 months is that for many companies its simply not about just taking the most technically dazzling or proficient more whether a dancers is actually peceived to be right for that particular company at any given time. For example a short virtuoso male dancer might be required, plus a small female to match. At one audition my ds noted that very tall girls were preferred, thus also requiring tall men. There is also the matter of personalities, I met a lovely man who had worked extensively in Germany and he said that apprenticeships were often a good way of judging individuals capacity to work and get along with others.

Edited November 15, 2012 by hfbrew

[Pas de Quatre]

Where did find this out Lindsay, are you able to say who it is?

[KathyG]

My DS has also told me of this but until it's published by either the school or RB we won't name names though if true one is no surprise. Very early in the year for contracts to be offered congratulations.

[primrose]

If its the person I am thinking of then it has always been on the cards.

[Pas de Quatre]

Yes, just found out about the young lady via dd. Been expecting it for years!

[primrose]

Well deserved in my opinion as (if its the right person) she has worked her socks off and is a beautiful talented dancer.

[Pas de Quatre]

I wonder if the contracts are being offered early to pre-empt offers from other interested ADs.

[hfbrew]

I wonder if the contracts are being offered early to pre-empt offers from other interested ADs.

Highly likely. ADs do often come in Vocational Schools to "shop" as it were- lots of graduates over the years have got their jobs this way.If I remember rightly, Yasmin Naghi got her contact whilst still only 2nd year Upper School!

[tutoo2much]

Out of interest, at which schools do they shop? Do they just go to RBS? Do they watch class, a show, or audition the pupils in the school?

[Pas de Quatre]

I believe Yasmin Naghi was put up to 3rd Year straight from 1st Year (or was only in 2nd Year for a short while before it happened). Sorting out the offers early is to everyone's benefit, as it saves those who have received an offer from wasting time and money auditioning elsewhere, and lets others know that they must look elsewhere.

[hfbrew]

]As far as I know most of the vocational schools get visits from ADs doing the rounds and they usually watch class. They certainly don't only go to RBS. Many of the schools also have ADs and agents watching their shows

Edited November 16, 2012 by hfbrew

[Natalma]

It was not my intention to insult anyone. I understand from the responses to my post that the comments made were based not on the names but on other information about the dancers. That's a helpful clarification since that fact was not apparent.

[Fiz]

Is it that lovely American dancer who has the YouTube videos, is it?

[JulieW]

Don't worry Natalma - I don't think anyone's insulted :-)

[Natalma]

Thanks JulieW - much appreciated.

[Yaffa]

I believe Yasmin Naghi was put up to 3rd Year straight from 1st Year (or was only in 2nd Year for a short while before it happened). Sorting out the offers early is to everyone's benefit, as it saves those who have received an offer from wasting time and money auditioning elsewhere, and lets others know that they must look elsewhere.

 

Indeed, though I recall RB sometimes offering contracts mid-year and then more towards the end of the year.

 

Yaffa - delighted with what I've heard about the contracts, but hoping that RB will also have/make room for additional exceptional students from the graduate year.

[capybara]

I believe that the now ex RBS dancers plus another student were on stage today for the final rehearsal of the MacMillan Triple Bill.

[Lisa O`Brien]

I guess this is going to be a bit controversial. I understand that there are very few ballet contracts out there,but ,no disrespect intended to any dancer or any company .I have never heard of some of these ballet companies. Seems a bit sad to have worked so hard all those years,got into RBS or another top British school,only to end up dancing with an obscure company hardly anyone has heard of. A bit like training all through your teens at the Manchester United Academy,only to start your professional career in a 3rd division side.

[Aurora]

But in general we only know of British companies and the very top international ones. How many people in other countries will have heard of northern ballet, ballet west and English national for example. Very few I should think. They probably only recognise the Royal Ballet, they probably don't even know BRB. So although they seem obscure to us maybe they don't to the countries they're based in.

 

Plus for many it may just be the start of their career and the first step on the ladder.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Yes,You make a fair point,Aurora.

[Natalma]

Another way to look at it is that sometimes a dancer may have more opportunities to perform or may get the chance to do more challenging roles in a smaller or less well-known company. And so many factors can affect job satisfaction. While the most renowned companies might seem to be every dancer's dream, I'm not sure that's always where everyone is happiest, anyway.

[Aurora]

Very true, they may reach soloist or principal level in a smaller company a little more easily.