loveclassics Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 SMballet - Please, keep posting.... Yes do, the larger the range of opinions the better IMHO. Lively debate is the liveblood of forums like this. Re the eminent Mr Crisp: I do sympathise as I too have found his comparisons with past greats rather trying at times. For those of us not fortunate enough to have seen these long-departed dancers it can be very frustrating. On the other hand, he has been extremely generous in his praise for some modern dancers (he spotted Morera's potential well ahead of the rest of the pack) and his comments can be very entertaining as well as perceptive. There was an interview with him (by our own dear Bruce, I think) on the old thread which is well worth reading. And I guarantee it will give you a good laugh and a different view of him. Alison, you're so good at these searches - can you post a link to this? Thanks, Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Having read the Crisp review, it seems to me the only thing that anyone could object to is the phrase used to describe Marquez. And that really depends on whether or not you are a fan of hers. Surely, Fonty, it should depend rather on whether you agree with him? Anyone can be a fan of a dancer, but that shouldn't necessarily prevent you from admitting that they're not going to do every role equally well, and that there may be times when they're not best suited to a role. Ha ha exactly. 629,000 is tiny Well, the FT is a specialist newspaper with a specialist readership. I'm not sure that it can be validly compared with the more generalist papers. On the other hand, he has been extremely generous in his praise for some modern dancers (he spotted Morera's potential well ahead of the rest of the pack) and his comments can be very entertaining as well as perceptive. There was an interview with him (by our own dear Bruce, I think) on the old thread which is well worth reading. And I guarantee it will give you a good laugh and a different view of him. Alison, you're so good at these searches - can you post a link to this? loveclassics, it's not actually that difficult All I did was to run a Google search with the parameters "site:ballet.co.uk" (to restrict the search to a given site), and "Clement Crisp interview". That came up with this one, http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_04/apr04/interview_crisp.htm, by Kevin Ng, which I'd forgotten about, and also this one, http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_01/dec01/ismene_b_int_clement_c.htm, by Ismene Brown, which I suspect is the one you're thinking about. And no, I'd prefer not to share my full name. I don't on any internet forum, because I have my entire professional life ahead of me. If that means I can't be on this forum, well, so be it. I've been reading for a long while (and learning from ALL of you) without having joined in, and I'll just go back to that silent reader status. SMb, I understand your point of view, and of course you're welcome to post, but one of the principal rules of this forum, to which everyone agrees when they sign up, is that you do not hide behind the anonymity of a username to post highly critical comments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboyd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Alison - Being highly critical of a dancer is one thing - But, being highly critical of a highly critical critic is another........ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Alison - Being highly critical of a dancer is one thing - But, being highly critical of a highly critical critic is another........ Bill: If you have a problem with the FT then write to the editor who holds to his own rules about what is published. This forum has rules too and that's all mods are concerned with here. The rules here are not FT rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Clement Crisp Interview... There was an interview with him (by our own dear Bruce, I think) on the old thread which is well worth reading. And I guarantee it will give you a good laugh and a different view of him. The interview you mean was very kindly done by Ismene Brown and is about 7,000 words long. Fabulous insight into the man and his views - just remember it was written in 2002 and circumstances in London are now a little different. Here you go: http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_01/dec01/ismene_b_int_clement_c.htm Two snippets: Q: "What are your feelings about the future of the Royal Ballet?” CC: "My feelings are of despair..." And "Oh, no unprejudiced criticism is worth reading. Or worth writing. Prejudice is what makes a critic interesting." It links to an interesting discussion on the old forum - as here not everybody appreciates Clement Crisp: http://www.danze.co.uk/dcforum/happening/2393.html While I'm here I must also point folks at Alan Helms interview with Alastair Macaulay. 10,000 words but again really interesting views on what writing about dance is all about: http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_10/aug10/interview_alastair_macaulay.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Very interesting that Crisp, himself, should say: "Most criticism is trumpery and pointless, based on ignorance rather than knowledge. " I think one of the most interesting pieces of advice in this realm I ever heard given was from the American actor, Kevin Kline, in a drama session I was running with prisoners. He turned to one inmate and said: 'Take the best and leave the rest'. It's your choice. So wise. And to think this forum is in major part entitled 'Jewels' .... One wonders just what Balanchine would have made of this particular wandering off of his oh, so glorious topic! (As a means of relief I've just bought myself a ticket - to Balanchine's Jewels that is - at La Scala on 15th March.) Edited January 13, 2014 by Meunier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrischris Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Good advice Meunier. I'd be surprised if most dancers put much stock in these reviews nowadays. Most have twitter accounts and i'm sure they get positive and negative tweets sent to them in equal measure, so they probably learn quickly not to pay too much attention. Regarding crisp, i've skimmed through some of these interviews and reviews people have posted and he just strikes me as a very, very old man. Elderly people do sometimes get a bit set in their ways and nostalgic about the past. He reminds me of my grandmother a bit actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Alison - Being highly critical of a dancer is one thing - But, being highly critical of a highly critical critic is another........ Not where the Forum rules are concerned it isn't, Bill. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Regarding crisp, i've skimmed through some of these interviews and reviews people have posted and he just strikes me as a very, very old man. Elderly people do sometimes get a bit set in their ways and nostalgic about the past. He reminds me of my grandmother a bit actually. And the old have seen a lot, done a lot, experienced a lot and that counts in ballet as in life. Jewels: No one has ever surpassed Peter Martins in Diamonds; some have come close but I still go along in the hope that one day I'll see someone to equal him, so far I wait in vain. The feeling doesn't hold with other roles in the ballet - just that one and no doubt Mr Crisp saw him too. Marquez in my view didn't deserve that remark, better than some worse than others, it was a middling performance in my opinion, well danced but not inspiring, the word pedestrian is harsh as her performance was capable enough. As a critic Crisp is really only happy when reviewing classical ballet, with modern works he clearly has difficulty understanding the ideas behind much new work, so I'm not a fan, but I think he is almost a national treasure when it cames to critics, however treasure or not I've always felt criticizing the critics is more useful at times than criticizing the dancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 That's not entirely true: he's very enthusiastic about breakdance and related styles, too, as Bruce, I think, pointed out. Clearly he has his dislikes in the more modern and contemporary idiom, but it's not a given that he will automatically dislike something just because it's contemporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Shouldn't we transfer all this to a thread entitled 'A Critique on Critics'? It seems hardly fair for such discussion to be pursued under the Jewels heading. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 No-one is spared by Clement Crisp: 'There is an unpleasant outbreak of child dancers...' (ENB Le Corsaire). I thought that they were rather sweet but I'm sure that others share his view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mallinson Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think the last word has been said about Mr Crisp. Can we please leave him in peace now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveclassics Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Alison & Bruce - thank you very much for posting the links. I've just had a very interesting time re-reading them. Ballet criticism is a fascinating topic - perhaps we should have a separate thread as capybara suggests. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Surely, Fonty, it should depend rather on whether you agree with him? Anyone can be a fan of a dancer, but that shouldn't necessarily prevent you from admitting that they're not going to do every role equally well, and that there may be times when they're not best suited to a role. Precisely my point, Alison. I think people are more likely to agree with a critic's criticism if they are not a particular fan, but if a favourite is described in such a cutting way, it is more likely to annoy them (even if it is true). Personally, I am quite capable of that level of detachment, but some fans are so besotted, they take any negative comments as insults. Anyway, back to Jewels..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Q Fan Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 ^^Yes - I had the great pleasure to see the Bolshoi in the cinema yesterday - FAB-U-LOUS! Hoping that both RB and Bolshoi will issue DVDs of their performances and hoping RB will do Jewels next season so it too can be broadcast - it translated really well to the big screen. Fingers and toes crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 I suspect the Balanchine Trust might have the final word on the above. While I'm posting in here again, I was surprised yesterday when, at the end of the Diamonds pas de deux, Olga Smirnova was already looking at Chudin when he bent to kiss her hand. I could have sworn that I saw some sort of coaching of the Royal Ballet where the ballerina was told not to look up at her partner *until* he kisses her hand - it was as if that brings her out of her reverie. Does anyone remember this? I ask because I also looked at the Farrell/Martins DVD, only to find that she *doesn't* actually do it that way. I must admit that I prefer it the way I wrote: it seems to me to link better i) with the abstracted air which the ballerina wears throughout and ii) back to the air of mystery which permeates Emeralds, or should do. Having seen the RB in it so recently, I must admit that I did spot quite a few instances where it seemed as though the two companies had been coached differently at certain points in the ballet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mijosh Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It seems to me that whenever I've seen "Diamonds",be it with New York City Ballet,Mariinsky,Paris Opera Ballet or our own Royal production,it has always had the glance after the kiss. And as far as I'm concerned that's the way it should be. It is the perfect 'punctuation' to one of Balanchine's most glorious pas de deux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Yet not with Farrell in that (?)TV recording. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 I didn't want this one to get lost, so thought I'd link to it here: from today's Links, Jacques d'Amboise on interpretation in "Diamonds": http://seattletimes.com/html/thearts/2024562802_pnbjacquesdamboisexml.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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