Fouettes

[xcx]

Hello I`m new here.

I`ve always been a dancer and recently have been teaching ballet for underprivileged kids. One of them is so great she was selected to compete on 2014 Grand Prix. I`m really proud of her since she is coming z long way. She is already capable of doing pretty good fouettes, but she was trained by some russian teachers there so her fouettes are really russian style. I would like to know what sort of fouttes you guys like more? Because I really love Tamara Rojo`s, Murphy, Valdes and Lali Knadelaki style. I`m not personally fan of the russians. And i think it would be more productive to her to have a more international style, since its what she is aiming and there is no way she could possible go to a Russian academy, but I do believe she is good enough to go to USA  or England. She did dance at the same company that Tiago Soares and Marina Moreira (from ROYAL) started. 

So do you guys think she should change her style? She is quite young yet, I don`t think it would be difficult for her, and the russian fouettes are so messy! 

Here are some compilations of fouettes  that might help on the verdict:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtJ2R_i6Too

 

 

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Xcx and welcome to the forum.

 

I have moved your query to the "Doing Dance" forum where we have a number of experts who contribute and may be more able to help you.

[mart]

Do you mean by Russian style that she does not do rond de jambe so just kicks the leg out to seconde? Osipova uses the rond de jambe (which I prefer) also her use of spotting is amazing .

Rojo has great fouettés as well .I like to see quality rather than quantity 32 beautiful single  fouettés rather than putting in doubles and trebles with shoulders up and arms all over the place.

[alison]

Rojo has great fouettés as well .I like to see quality rather than quantity 32 beautiful single  fouettés rather than putting in doubles and trebles with shoulders up and arms all over the place.

 

Oh yes, so do I

[xcx]

Do you mean by Russian style that she does not do rond de jambe so just kicks the leg out to seconde? Osipova uses the rond de jambe (which I prefer) also her use of spotting is amazing .

Rojo has great fouettés as well .I like to see quality rather than quantity 32 beautiful single  fouettés rather than putting in doubles and trebles with shoulders up and arms all over the place.

Mart thats precisely what I meant...sorry bad english! I think my student can do her fouettes with the rond de jambe rather than the Russian style ( like Zakharova, Lopatikina etc) that to me always looks so messy and sloppy, specially for the IBC nd other competitions. She will also audition to the ABT and some European`s ballet schools, so I would like to know if u guys think it`s wise to change her technique since she is still young, 17.

I personally like Tamara rather than Osipova, but thats just because I like Tamara as a ballerina better than Natalia. 

Edited December 10, 2013 by xcx

[Tulip]

What does your student prefer?

[tomuchtallent]

We have a Russian and royal ballet trained teacher and I have asked them both about fouettes! The Russian teacher showed me,and you have to flick your foot in front and then behind in retire and then out to second.I personally think it does not look as nice as the rond de jambe version and looks messy.I would defiantly suggest she is taught the other way.

[Circe]

Thanks for posting the links- really interesting.  Based on no real knowedge or experience...I'd go with what your student feels comfortable and confident with and that complements her style so that she can perform to her highest level.

[LinMM]

I prefer them neat and with the ronde de jambe as well.

 

To be honest though too many fouetté s are just boring to me!! Though I know when well done can be a show stopper etc.

[Billyelliott]

I also prefer them with the rond de jambe and with more control and less speed . As a matter of general principal quality should not be sacrificed for speed and I agree that the flicking of the foot can look messy! Just from personal preference as a watcher and a ballet mum !

[Anjuli_Bai]

If possible - why not learn both?

 

I, personally, prefer the rond de jamb, but taught both styles to my students.

 

As well as traveling and sur la place.

 

The faults I usually see, even in principal dancers, are untidy arms - and very seldom a smile.  They almost all look so grim.

[mart]

If possible - why not learn both?

 

I, personally, prefer the rond de jamb, but taught both styles to my students.

 

As well as traveling and sur la place.

 

The faults I usually see, even in principal dancers, are untidy arms - and very seldom a smile.  They almost all look so grim.

Many travel without wanting  to!!!! I agree untidy arms and hunched shoulders ,,some of the best fouettes were from Toni Lander in Etudes and she did smile (most of you are too young to have seen her) tremendous dancer.

[Anjuli_Bai]

I had the pleasure of being in ballet class with Mariinsky (then Kirov) Principal dancer, Galina Panov, and watching her rehearse fouettés, making each 4th one a double and changing spots (4 corners of the rooms) - it was quite wonderful.

 

However, the most memorable fouettés I've ever seen were done very slowly rather than the fast tempos we usually see.  Done slowly one got to observe not only the technical accomplishment but the beauty of the line and shape.  And, I would think that is ever so much more difficult.  When done slowly one can't depend upon speed of the turn to get around as well as giving impetus to the next turn  Only true control - guided by the mind rather than by dynamics.

 

Unfortunately, I forget the name of the dancer who did this.

[xcx]

Thank you everyone for their replies...of course, she is learning both styles, but I personally think she should perform with the rond de jamb, just because it looks more tidy and less sloppy.! I think most of you agree, I just wanted an international view on this regard, like if people would rather see one or the other.

And yes arms are very important! 

Also, I think the prettiest fouettes are the ones the ballerina manages to stay on the same spot (sur la place) it makes it even more impressive!

Anyways I gotta say, from the Russian the worst I saw so far is Alina Somova

[Don Q Fan]

Whatever the style I just look on in sheer amazement at what the human body can do!

[Sheila Beelam]

I'm a ronde de jambe to the front person by preference

 

But personally when I execute, it's a fling the leg and hope! Not to be take as in any way a technical description or recomendation to anybody. Just the best a 43yr old can manage

[LinMM]

I'm sure that's why as someone noticed not that much smiling going on!! It's all a bit grim....keeping them going and trying to throw in the odd double etc. I have to admit that however admirable it is of the person or the human body in doing lots of fouetté s when I know they are about to turn up in any number eg Swan Lake black act......I get a slight sinking feeling and just hope the dancer can pull off to some degree of satisfaction to themselves but after about number ten I usually just want them to end!! I keep thinking about the poor dancers foot!

 

Also some dancers are naturally going to be better at them than others.......they are just better turners or have the right build for it all.

I am pretty sure taller dancers on the whole just don't suit fouetté s that much though will always be some exceptions of course.

[LinMM]

Sheila....anyone still going for fouetté s after the age of 40 is a real trouper!!

[taxi4ballet]

I've never watched so many fouettes all at once, and the thing that struck me was that every single dancer did them on the same leg!

 

Are there any ballerinas who turn the other way?

[Pas de Quatre]

Interesting question, there don't seem to be many ballerinas who are left handed or at least left turners.  However with male principals there do seem to be many who prefer turning to the left - more than one would expect as a proportion of left handedness in the general population.  

[swanprincess]

I'm a left turner- when I was younger I was better to the right, but now I can do triples to the left and only doubles to the right! (pirouettes from 4th, not fouettes!!) As for fouettes, I prefer the rond de jambe too

[Anjuli_Bai]

I am right handed, right footed, left eyed, left mouthed.  We all have those preferences.

 

I definitely prefer to turn to the left.  This is rare for women.  Most women prefer to turn to the right.  However, many men prefer to turn to the left.  A soloist or principal dancer is usually given a choice.

 

Though I preferred the left - when it came to fouettés, I preferred them to the right.  Strange!

 

I also noticed that my preferences seemed to have a hormonal component.  At a certain point in the hormonal cycle, suddenly I became a right hand turner, and then afterward back I went to prefering the left.  

 

Even outside of dance if I have a choice - such as when backing out of a parking space - I will automatically turn the car to the left.  If I am choosing between two tables in a restaurant, without thinking about it, I will choose the one on the left.  Yet  - as I said I'm right handed.

 

I have noticed that in ice skating the skaters always spin to the right - apparently they don't even consider the left.

 

This preference to move to the left resulted in a sad day in physical ed when in high school.  We were outside playing baseball and I had hit the ball so hard it left the field and was lost.  Everyone on my team was so excited.   I gleefully ran around the bases but upon completion of my run the teacher, livid with anger, told  me to leave the field and that I had a "zero" for the day.  My team mates also were very upset.  I had no idea why.

 

Later I was told that I had run around the bases the "wrong" way - to the left.  Everyone thought I had done it purposefully.  It wasn't until many years later, that I realized through teaching ballet - that in my excitement in that game I had automatically run in the direction of my natural preference - to the left.  

[munchkin16]

Anjuli_Bai I prefer turning to the left too and I also prefer fouettes to the right (when I do them in my kitchen at least, we haven't learnt them in class yet!) I feel in the minority as a left turner being the only one in my class. The fact about hormones is fascinating, do you think that could apply to flexibility as well? I am normally more flexible on my left but at certain times it switches to the right. I wonder if the two are linked?

[xcx]

I'm a ronde de jambe to the front person by preference

 

But personally when I execute, it's a fling the leg and hope! Not to be take as in any way a technical description or recomendation to anybody. Just the best a 43yr old can manage

43??? Go Girl...!!!!

[Anjuli_Bai]

Anjuli_Bai I prefer turning to the left too and I also prefer fouettes to the right (when I do them in my kitchen at least, we haven't learnt them in class yet!) I feel in the minority as a left turner being the only one in my class. The fact about hormones is fascinating, do you think that could apply to flexibility as well? I am normally more flexible on my left but at certain times it switches to the right. I wonder if the two are linked?

 

I think the hormonal cycle affects everything: balance, voice, emotion, concentration, ability to think, sleep, flexibility, - everything.

 

I bet if you kept a diary on a calendar you would see a pattern.

[Anjuli_Bai]

Forgot to add....

 

There are many teachers who do not seem to understand this preference for turning to the left which some of us have.  I had one teacher who would actually roll her eyes at me and told the class this was crazy.

 

Until - one day - I told her - also in front of the class - (at the time a major star) Principal Dancer Fernando Bujones, American Ballet Theatre - and I - both turn to the left.  Bujones was famous for his technical perfection.

 

After that - she had nothing to say.