Jump to content

Women dancers ‘spatchcocked and inverted, genitals to the fore’ by some male choreographers


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 84
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I wonder how the people in this thread will react to Marie Agnes Gillot's "Sous Apparence" at Paris Opera Ballet, with women in bare chests and tied up in ropes, and men wearing pointe shoes. 

http://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/2012/10/29/03004-20121029ARTFIG00480-quand-marie-agnes-gillot-se-joue-des-apparences.php

Though this was not a successful work.

 

I don't think it is an exploitation of women concerning them dancing with their naked breasts, European audience are used to those things. Bella Figura is such a beautiful work and it has to be nude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I was looking at info and some video clips for the Matt Eks Giselle last night and its not what I thought at all.

 

I haven't seen it in full obviously but it strikes me the nudity is only one small bit of it towards the end and in the context of how it's been set looks appropriate.

 

I'd be happy to see that Ballet as an alternative interpretation of Giselle but not if it was considered a replacement entirely for it!!

 

Where this choreography for women is concerned I don't really like "crude" that much. Some choreography can only take a few viewings anyway but it's just "horses for courses" in the end I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crikey, I don't think of myself as prudish or "older" at all! I have no problem with nudity on tv or in films, or on stage in a play. I can choose whether to go to the theatre to see it or to stay away. I don't even have a problem with my daughter seeing nudity.

 

What I DO have a problem with is nudity, manipulation, or over-exposure FOR THE SAKE OF IT. If it is absolutely essential to the ballet AND if the dancers are completely happy to participate, great! I might not buy a ticket, but that's my perogative.

 

But if a ballet doesn't absolutely have to be done topless, nude, or with oversplits, bums-in-faces etc - or there is anything which the dancers object to on any grounds, then yes, I do have a problem with that. It's no different to being a model who suddenly gets asked to pose naked or topless and who must be able to say "sorry, no, I didn't sign up to this".

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that Tamara is a big fan of Mats Ek's work (I think that I read somewhere that his Carmen is one of her favourite ballets) and so there must be a risk........!!! Why is Albrecht naked though? I agree that it would be more embarrassing if it were someone who we were likely to see for years afterwards. It doesn't bear (bare!) thinking about. But perhaps we're all too prudish.

 

 

If Albrecht is naked then how can he put aside his ducal garments and dress as a peasant? (Unless all the villagers are similarly unclothed).  Considering the plot hinges on his deception it renders the whole story nonsensical.

 

In contrast, consider the importance of costume in Ek's Carmen:  poor Don Jose in dreary grey trying to compete with Escamilio's lurex disco outfit.  And that impossibly long ruched train on Carmen's red dress.  You don't need Freud to work out the significance of that outfit.

 

As for nudity in dance performances, I remember a critic having the last word when 'Oh Calcutta' was produced:  "the trouble with nudity is that not everything stops when the music does." 'Nuff said really.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well now, here is an interesting thread! 

 

I tend to get a bit puzzled when people say that objection to nudity is a British thing, or a generation thing. Sorry, I do not agree.  It is true we don't tend to strip off as regularly and easily as, say, the Germans appear to but frankly I consider that to be a good thing.  (The memory  of a naked German Oompah band is one that still manages to reduce me to tears of laughter).  On the other hand I am perfectly comfortable on a nudist beach and always have been, and I am no teenager.

 

Also, I have no problems at all with people stripping off in drama if it adds something to the overall theatrical experience.  I remember seeing The Elephant Man many years ago, where the lead character appears on stage naked right at the start of the play.  As a description is given of his pysical deformities he gradually twists and distorts his body accordingly.  It was a remarkable piece of theatre, and a stunning performance by the lead male.

 

However, I have no idea why on earth a choreographer would think it necessary to make a dancer perform in the nude.  Surely the whole point of dancing, any dancing, is controlled movement.  Have anatomical bits moving in an uncontrolled fashion is as distracting as seeing a piece of torn constume fluttering.  However beautiful the dancers are,  your eye is drawn to the things that are not moving in time to the music. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 The thread seems to have taken a nude turn in how appropriate it is in modern works or not!

Slightly different to how appropriate is some modern choreography in its treatment of women dancers (mainly)!

 

Quite! Apologies in advance if I sound bossy here, but I started the thread using as a title the words Luke Jennings used in his timely Observer piece last Sunday. I thought it would be worthwhile discovering if ballet audiences agreed with him in finding it offensive and unnecessary to have women's crotches repeatedly thrust in their faces.  I personally loathe it, and wonder why the dancers themselves allow their bodies to be used like this, unless, of course the unspoken threat of  'if you don't want to do it, someone else will'  hangs over their heads (I may be being fanciful here, of course).

 

Would everything be ok  if men's bodies were displayed in the same manner? No, but it might at least lessen the offensiveness to women.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite! Apologies in advance if I sound bossy here, but I started the thread using as a title the words Luke Jennings used in his timely Observer piece last Sunday.

 

Well, the subject of nudity in this thread seems to be consistent with the idea of "pushing the bounderies", and that concept seems to be at the forefront of all new works, it appears to me. 

 

We've had quite a few discussions recently about modern choreography.  I can't pass comment on the specific ballets mentioned in Luke Jenning's article, as I haven't seen the latest triple bill.  Not sure if I have seen Chroma or not, there is nothing in the photos to distinguish it from several other new works.  But audience reaction seems to be enthusiastic, and the dancers appear to love it.

 

So the unfavourable opinion of someone such as myself is destined to be thrown into the ROH administrative waste paper bin, marked, "Rantings of a Middle Aged, Middle Class, Middle Englander". Can't have those sorts of people hogging the seats in the Stalls, can we?  :rolleyes:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the "unspoken threat" is fanciful.  Sylvie Guillaume earned the nickname "Mademoiselle Non" because she dared to say no to the powers that be.  If she didn't want to do a role for whatever reason she would refuse.  This was totally unheard of, dancers are supposed to do what they are told, even Principals, and be grateful for any roles.  She could do it because she was so strong minded, famous and very much in control of her own career.  She knew she could go anywhere in the world.  For lesser mortals this isn't the case.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

um, not defending the 'spatchcocking' but let's be honest - isn't this just the other side of the men's bums (and yes, I could have phrased that better) ?  the one thing that puts your average bloke off watching ballet more than anything else is the endless parade of male buttocks in wedgied tights.  I haven't however heard howls of protest from the ladies about that!   ;)

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, from a personal point of view, I would be very happy never to see any male ballet dancer perform in white or pale tights ever again.  So unflattering, IMO, and it does give the impression that the gentleman's rear end is being thrust in your face!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was at both performances of the ROH triple bill yesterday, Row A orchestra stalls (so as in your face as it gets at the ROH) and then the balcony. Whilst I know I am a simple soul  and I just see what I see without reading too much into it, I really don’t recognise the tagline of this topic in the dances I saw.

 

Yes, if you take still photos and stare at them then it makes sense but in the context of the performances then I didn't see it.

 

Human Seasons was entertaining enough, but Chroma was a world away. Close up it was electrifying and stunning. From the balcony I found it also very beautiful.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I decided to go on Youtube and have a look at some of the Chroma clips, because I just could not remember if i had seen it (I haven't).  Having watched both fast and slow pieces, I can now see both sides of the argument.

 

I can see why this was greeted with such enthusiasm, and why it has continued to be so popular.  It is as striking as MacMillan's Rite of Spring must have seemed when first performed. However, it does demand extreme flexibility from its dancers, and such high and extended leg positions, particularly to the side, together with the bathing suit costumes, inevitably exposes the crotch area.  The girls always seem to be facing the audience as well, while the men appear to have their backs to the audience a bit more.  It would not be so obvious if the girls were wearing the nightdress style costumes of R & J or Manon.  But then, that style of dress would not go at all with the type of music.     

 

It seems to me that the choreography is great for this one ballet.  However, I hate the idea that every new ballet in the future is based on this hyper-extended, pulled apart, arched backed, stick-your-bum-out-and-undulate type of movement.  Just think if every ballet MacMillan choreographed after R of S had been similar in style.   

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find McGregor's choreography exactly as described by the title of the thread and most of the comments in it. As well as this, it is fairly boring and repetitive after a while. This is compounded by the fact that there is little in the way of narrative, but more so by the ugly costumes. Why do all contemporary pieces have to be performed in dishrags that look the colour of old undies that have gone grey after finding a rogue coloured sock in the whites wash? I do think shorts would help to preserve the modesty of these dancers as well.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Agree about the Chroma costumes, the men look bizarre in those.  On the other hand, in my bluray of Caravaggio, Polina Semionova is wearing what appears to be a mere scrap of grubby bandage, like a largely unwrapped mummy, yet manages to look jaw-droppingly gorgeous..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...