Ellie Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Article from the moscow news website http://themoscownews.com/arts/20131113/192046409/Young-American-ballet-dancer-accuses-Bolshoi-of-extortion-.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 How sad. There is also an article in today's Telegraph. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10447643/Ballerina-accuses-Bolshoi-of-demanding-cash-for-solos.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 A heartbreak for sure. Unfortunately, not new news for Russian ballet. She has learned how the game is being played there, and may want to reconsider her options outside of Russia(which I am sure are many). She is very young, and ambitious and much has been written and is expected of her. Time is on her side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisat Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 It certainly is a heartbreak though I would not be too quick to assume her version of events are the only accurate version. Some of the company dancers and staff have spoken up disputing her story and they have every right to our consideration as she does. My old age has taught me that there are always more sides to a story. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The Moscow News piece was in yesterday's Links. Ismene Brown had a piece in this morning's Links in which, as has been suggested, others have begun to qualify what we first read: http://www.ismeneb.com/Blog/Entries/2013/11/13_American_dancer_says_Bolshoi_tried_to_extort_%2410%2C000.html The basic story has been picked up globally by papers and sites in the intervening 24 hours. And for Jules, it would appear that she has already accepted a place with another Russian company. There may be a salutary lesson in all this for youngsters (and their parents) going to Russian schools in the hope of securing places in Russian companies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Ian-in agreement about lessons learned My daughter graduated from a prominent Russia ballet school. As an American, it was suggested to her that marrying a Russian "might" help her get into the company(as Joy has done). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisat Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) I did read about the marriage of this young woman to some young man and I felt quite terrible for him. I believe the marriage was refered to as a "sham". What I find quite contrary regarding this young lady is that she has such religious tweets and seems to put forth such a devote persona and her actions are suspect at least they are to me. Where are the parents in all of this? Edited November 15, 2013 by Lisat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 One has to wonder at the timing, and purpose, of Joy Womack's allegations. If she *has* entered into a 'sham' marriage then that is very distasteful and an indication, I suppose, of her desperation (and probable naïveté) at best, and her ambition at worst. I wonder whether the breaking of this 'story' will have very negative repercussions for her, rather than the reverse, which I imagine she thinks will be the case. It might have been better for her to have been a bit more tight-lipped and moved companies without becoming embroiled in all the controversy about the Bolshoi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marieve Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's such a shame for her if it's true. It does make me wonder though, especially given the comments from the Bolshoi on her apparent difficulties with learning choreography, whether she was only accepted into the Bolshoi company as a kind of enticement to encourage more foreigners to pay to study at the Bolshoi school. They may be increasingly reliant on income from foreign students and perhaps the acceptance of one of them into the company, even if she wasn't quite up to the ideal standard, would have been quite an effective recruitment tactic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmendrick Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_11_14/Bolshoi-calls-into-question-Joy-Womacks-statements-on-extortion-7265/ This article gives some quotes from people connected with the Bolshoi, they aren't particularly flattering to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Hmm. I'm not sure that they're particularly convincing, either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I heard yesterday that sadly the marriage has now ended. Her husband was a lovely young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 How old is Joy Womack and how long was she married for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 She is 19 years of age nearly 20.she must have been married for about 18 months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 So she got married at 18 when she was still training at the Bolshoi Academy? Mmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Just a child really then. I wonder what support and advice she was given at such a young vulnerable age. None of us know, so no point speculating, she is still very young. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Just a child really then. I wonder what support and advice she was given at such a young vulnerable age. None of us know, so no point speculating, she is still very young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I'm not sure I understand the whole thing. I thought that even if you are taken on by the company from the school you usually spend at least a couple of years in the corps first. She has only just graduated so wouldn't be offered a soloist contract straight away I would have thought. It's not beyond the bounds of belief that this could happen though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 It can happen but it's very unusual I would think. If I had just joined a large company I would expect to do at least a few years in the corps before solo roles even crossed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Anyone who has worked in Russia will know that corruption and bribery is common amongst officialdom and there is an expectation in many areas that you pay your way. I think it's plausible that this could extend into ballet companies that were previously under direct state control, particularly if looking to exploit a 'rich' foreigner. Let's face it, the recent goings on at the Bolshoi don't exactly inspire confidence do they? Edited November 17, 2013 by Ribbons 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 My comment above "it's not beyond the bounds of belief etc" was referring to this possibility of corruption in fact. (Rather than getting a soloist contract straight from school which I realise that it may look as if its referring to!) So yes I agree. I still think there's a sort of residue belief from iron curtain days there that people from the "west" have loads of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I should qualify that have no direct experience of Russia.....but more Poland.... I have to say that I did meet with this attitude there but that was a while ago now and haven't been back since "iron curtain" days. However Polish friends who were born in UK are expected to take expensive presents to any relatives still there as they see the average person over here as being wealthy compared to them. One really hopes this isn't true after all the other shenanigans that have been going on at the Bolshoi recently but perhaps old habits die hard. She is still very young to be expecting a soloist contract though. Incidentally looking at those New York City Ballet videos recently I was struck by how long some of those company members waited toget a soloist or Principal contract so this aspect of things isn't just a Russian thing! But perhaps in Russia you can pay to get one more quickly!! I just hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Interesting blog view.... http://bornagainballetomane.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/musing-about-womack/ and an interesting article written a while ago on 20 September... http://www.themorningnews.org/article/the-bolshoi-in-the-dark Edited November 17, 2013 by Ribbons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I'm not sure I understand the whole thing. I thought that even if you are taken on by the company from the school you usually spend at least a couple of years in the corps first. She has only just graduated so wouldn't be offered a soloist contract straight away I would have thought. It's not beyond the bounds of belief that this could happen though. This young lady is rather naive and very inexperienced to think she'd get a soloist level role within a year of joining a professional company. Just look at how long most Corps dancers at the RB/BRB/ENB remain there before being given a soloist role let alone being made a soloist! Many dancers remain in the Corps for 5 years if not more before they are promoted to the rank of First Artist and Soloist. Her story is a one-sided story and clearly she expected too much too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 If you read Ismene Brown's blog (link under Ian M's post further up), it says that Isvestia (who published Joy's original interview) have seen the soloist contract she was given and so it seems genuine that she was given a soloist contract. However, I guess the issuing of a contract does not necessarily guarantee performances and it seems that she needed a sponsor (or some other means of financial contribution) before being given a role on stage. You would also have to question the motives of the Bolshoi for giving a soloist contract to a new (American) graduate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Thanks for the above links Ribbons they make interesting but rather uncomfortable reading. I suppose if you think the system in the Ballet Company you have chosen is fairish you may be more prepared to wait out some time in the corps......if there is any chance you could move through the ranks so to speak. Although whichever company you are in its hard to wait for roles for posssibly 10 years......injury can rear its ugly head at any point and getting older doesn't make it any easier physically speaking at least. I can understand her desire to want to make her mark with the Bolshoi Company but looks like she has been making some unwise decisions.......(did she discuss things with her large and close knit family?......maybe not) which she probably now regrets......who hasn't got some regrets from some teenage decisions!! However, if as she says she just wants to be a ballerina, then perhaps she should just find another Company which may allow her to achieve her ambitions.....if she is good enough......without any strings attached. She may have tried to use the system a bit but then it appears the system may be using her just as much. I say and especially just at the moment with all thats going on with BOTH the Major ballet companies in Russia she is best out of it altogether. But if there is this.....and other corruption going on there....then she is extremely brave to expose it whilst still remaining in Russia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I have met and talked to Joy on a few occasions and my view of her was of how focused and driven she is which was very commendable. However she is far from nieve. She has many strings to her bow has been modelling for Grishko etc. She is also very savvy with the media and has used it very well. Her father it seems works very hard to promote his daughter. It really is admirable for her to have achieved so much at such a young age but I would wait for the full story to emerge before judgements are made. I will also add that no foreign student could ever pay their way into the school or company without the talent to match it. If this was true the Russian companies would be filled with foreign dancers. Foreign dancers in these companies are very much the minority I think but could be wrong. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I'm sorry, but I feel really cynical about this young woman. And you use the media at your peril. At any point it can turn on you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisat Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 All the dancers are ambitious. They all work hard and strive to get to a place they feel meets their goals. Entering into a marriage to gain a job, then giving an interview to a paper stating things that she feels will make the public sympathetic and take any onus off her own responsibility is more then ambition. This is manipulative and to say such things as she is quoted as saying and then claim to not want to name anyone as she "trusts" them says more about her then it does about the Bolshoi. I raised my four children to be responsible for their actions. If she wanted to be forthcoming and come across as more genuine then she should have said who said what, where and when. Not some half statements that lead the public to assume Filin is to blame and create some excuse for why she is not at Bolshoi anymore. Is there an excuse really needed? I do not doubt the issue of paying money was broached to her. I do however question whether she was actually asked or if that was just a piece of lame advice given to her. Many of the dancers have fathers, husbands on the back of Bolshoi. Yet they are in the corps as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Well it could have been that some people in the Company said to her in general sort of way "if you want to get on this company you'll have to find at least x......£" etc(or more likely american dollars!) perhaps they all do? But it's corrupt either way! If its just "foreigners" expected to do this that's not exactly very friendly And if it applies to all that is corruption too far!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 The thing is we dont know if this really does happen. One hears of many negative rumours in different companies but how true are they. I am not saying none of these things have happened but at the same time I dont know for sure if they did. All speculation really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 As Primrose says, we don't really know if these things happen. I'd only be prepared to believe it if a reliable source who does *not* have an axe to grind was prepared to state on record that it happens. Does David Hallberg have to pay for his performances? I very much doubt it. Having said all this, what I think is *not* in dispute is that dancers at some companies are paid by the number of performances which they do and that some dancers have close links with senior figures in the government and benefit from this. As for Joy Womack, it's almost unheard of for a graduate to obtain a soloist's contract straight from school, certainly in the larger companies, and I really don't know why she thinks (if, indeed, she does think this) that she should be the exception to this. Perhaps she's got a bit too big for her boots. Personally, I object to dancers thinking that they will gain an advantage from becoming media darlings. Let the dancing speak for itself. IMO, she needs to stop blabbing to the media and, instead, have a good long think about what she should be doing now. A public spat with a famous company whose school she has trained at and a failed marriage at the tender age of 19 are not good professionally and personally and she needs to reflect on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Maybe this is a bit off topic, but the few times that I have seen documentaries about Russian dancers (I think the last clip I saw was from 'The Prodigy') they seem sad...All the incredible hard work and dedication, their beautiful dancing and even the eventual success of being in a Company doesn't seem to bring any joy. Of course dancers are rarely (if ever) satisfied with themselves and always strive for more, but the dancers from RB / NYCB, seem rather different in their outlook. It could be that I'm losing something in translation, or that the Western dancers are more media savvy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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