open class - etiquette for the centre

[LinMM]

ABSOLUTELY NO WHITE!!!

 

 

Seriously unless it was an absolute order or bar to doing something white is THE colour I would least want to wear. Guess I must be black swan at heart!!

[Michelle_Richer]

Well I hope you are good at Pirouettes if your doing the Black Swan, but it will have to be a tutu though. Anyway must go it will be my pointe class soon, if they haven't cancelled it again this week.

[Fiz]

I've never danced in one, sad to say. It must be very different from a leotard or a leotard and skirt. I am not going to dance tonight. Since May I have run a sporadically high temperature and been generally off colour. My GP is doing umpteen blood tests on me. The latest one is for celiac disease. I've felt vile today, and not safe to drive or dance. I am not very happy about it.

[Jan McNulty]

Oh dear Fiz,

 

I hope they get to the bottom of it soon for you.  It's horrible feeling horrible without knowing what it is.

 

Could you do class in one of those practise tutu skirts I have seen dancers use in rehearsals?

 

 

As a matter of interest is there an etiquette about going to class if you may be infectious (not that I go to dance class but I have been sneezing all day)? 

[LinMM]

Poor Fiz. I wish I could come up with a magic formula. Except I know you can often be under par for a while if you've had to deal with a lot of stress. In the year after my dad died I felt continually tired and not that well and thought I'd never feel right but eventually for me I sort of got back to normal...for me at least. I think my body was just catching up after all the stress. I could just drop off to sleep at any time very unlike me. Did you say you are about to move house too?

 

Sorry right off topic now except to say when I am feeling under the weather I definitely need to hang around the back of the class more and will normally always put myself in the last group if not told otherwise! It's stupid really because often there are less people in the very last group so you are more exposed in a way!! But it does take me longer to remember things when not feeling 100per cent.

[Fiz]

I have been under a lot of stress this year and still am, Lin. The last blood test I had showed vitamin deficiencies in the ones that are implicated in coeliac disease so I suppose my GP is being cautious. It is a shame because I won't have many more classes at this school and I love it. Jan, I cannot begin to imagine people's faces if I turned up in a practice tutu!

[taxi4ballet]

Oh poor Fiz - I hope you are feeling better soon

[Jan McNulty]

Fiz, my "like" is for your final sentence!

 

A friend of mine has a dreadful skin complaint on her legs.  While it will never go away it is much improved since she got early release from work and the stress she was under there.

 

With all you have had on your plate this year it would not be surprising if whatever it is is exacerbated by stress.  Let's hope that once the stress of your move is out of the way you will start to see an improvement in your health and a return to a ballet class that you will hopefully enjoy as much as your current one.

[Fiz]

Thank you, dear Taxi. It's funny, most of us have never met but because of this board and the late lamented Ballet Co, I have "known" many of you for about ten years!

[mimi66]

Janet,  I don't know if there is any etiquett, but it would be sensible not to go to the class if you have something infectious.

 

As for wearing tutu...not for the class.  Though we once had a fund raising class for a cancer charity, and quite a few of us wore shocking pink tutu for a laugh  .

[Michelle_Richer]

I think I would go a little further an say you have a responsibility to the other dancers, some of which may be your friends too. That is almost the only thing that would stop me going to class, other than an injury that would be worsened by the activity. That should come under any dancers etiquette, ballet or not.

 

I assume the pink Tutu's were practice tutu's of some kind, and sure one doesn't usually wear them in class unless its a dress rehearsal or possibly the day before. Anyway I would never want to risk a good tutu any more than I really had too, both for getting damaged or dirty, especially a professional one.

[Thecatsmother]

I am a little confused. A tutu for class work or workshops for adults I don't think I have ever seen that requested with the exception of romantic tutu's. I guess some would say why not but the question could also be why. They are not exactly cheap.

 

At ballet school they tend to be worn in the studio for rehearsals for performances and sometimes for pas de deux but there is usually a purpose so it's not just about dressing up. Starting pas de deux does indeed introduce male dancers to some interesting angles in which to view a tutu! But I digress into other realms of the unseen world of ballet!

[Michelle_Richer]

Yes Balleteacher you are confused; if you are doing a dress rehearsal, YOU ARE GOING TO PERFORM, sometimes in a classroom setting where it supports audience seating which tends to be for a friends and family audience and sometimes on stage where the school is in a Theatre building, as was my class tonight.

 

Hope that clarifies the situation.

 

PS I guess I use class and studio in the same context.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Michelle_Richer

[LinMM]

The only time I ve seen students wearing tutu,s in the class setting is if they are rehearsing a piece for an audition.

 

Even when I did do some amateur performing the dress rehearsal was always where we were doing the performance not in the classroom.

[Michelle_Richer]

Yes Lin I agree with what you are saying but I have a couple of places that have audience seating in the studio/classroom. As I also mentioned if the performance is on stage, then that's where the dress rehearsal takes place as many of the dynamics change.

[mimi66]

Morning all.  Here is a bit more technical question I have.

 

When going across the floor in a small group of say 4, how do you arrange yourselves for the second side, i.e. going to the left?

 

My understanding of the convention is to keep the same formation.  For example:

 

When going to the right:               3              1                  (1 and 2 in front row)

                                                                4              2

 

 

Then to the left                                 3              1              (3and 4 in front row)

                                                                4              2

 

However, some of my open classes have their own local rules.  When going to the left, we reverse the square so that the front row people remain the same. Thus:

 

To the right                                        3              1              (1&2 in the front)            

                                                                4              2

 

To the left                                           1              3              (1 & 2 in the front)

                                                                2              4

 

I think the rule is adopted because people who started from the back normally are reluctant to go in front row as they like to have someone in the front – and it is the left side. 

 

I wonder if my understanding of the basic rule on this is correct… because then what happens if you go in three, with 1 person in front?  Is that person going this time in the back with 2 people in the front when going to the left?

 

I would love to hear the how things are done in the open classes you go to.

 

My view is that some sort of rule should be there so that going to the left everyone knows where they should stand in the group beforehand.

 

Edited for typo.

Edited October 24, 2013 by mimi66

[Michelle_Richer]

Wow you are getting organised, personally I do not know of a rule for right and left, as you say some are a little reluctant to be at the front.

 

I know groups of two can be difficult, as at one of my classes we had a young lady who had been the previous week where we had larger groups, when it came to groups of two, after class in the changing room she was talking of leaving, fortunately we were able to talk her out of it, and someone spoke to the teacher too.

[mimi66]

Perhaps those who have teaching experience can shed some light on this?  I would also like to hear what happens in the classes you attend, in the given situation, or those similar situation when going acorss the floor.  many thanks

[Michelle_Richer]

For corner to corner working, the teacher decides the number for each group mostly two or four, but very occasionally 6 (3 front + 3 back). Everyone's position in that formation is self organised, When going from the opposite corner I think there is a tendency to preserve that formation, but nothing cast in stone, if I started behind I would tend to be behind at the next side, but I would not positively check I was still behind the person I started with. Personally I really don't think its important.

 

My positioning in the travelling / waiting group is a question of how memorable I find the Enchainement, if its difficult then I'm inclined to hang back and try to learn more of it as other groups go through, and then take one of the back positions in later formation.

 

If its very memorable like a short sequence that is repeated two or three times then I will favour a front position in one of the early formation.

 

If we are doing travelling turns, then I may will be front in the first group.

 

I guess at the end of the day its down to personal comfort.

 

 

 

If we are doing centre work where we are travelling in all if not most direction, then its very much dependant upon the size of class and available space. In any case the teacher makes the decision as to if the class is to be broken up or not, if it is, then its usually broken in half and less frequently into three. Those in each group tend to be where they were standing.

 

Slightly off topic, but groupings for performance is often done by size.

[mimi66]

I am copying my earler post here for ease of reference... so you don't have to scroll up! 

 

Morning all.  Here is a bit more technical question I have.

 

When going across the floor in a small group of say 4, how do you arrange yourselves for the second side, i.e. going to the left?

 

My understanding of the convention is to keep the same formation.  For example:

 

When going to the right:               3              1                  (1 and 2 in front row)

                                                                4              2

 

 

Then to the left                                 3              1              (3and 4 in front row)

                                                                4              2

 

However, some of my open classes have their own local rules.  When going to the left, we reverse the square so that the front row people remain the same. Thus:

 

To the right                                        3              1              (1&2 in the front)            

                                                                4              2

 

To the left                                           1              3              (1 & 2 in the front)

                                                                2              4

 

I think the rule is adopted because people who started from the back normally are reluctant to go in front row as they like to have someone in the front – and it is the left side. 

 

I wonder if my understanding of the basic rule on this is correct… because then what happens if you go in three, with 1 person in front?  Is that person going this time in the back with 2 people in the front when going to the left?

 

I would love to hear the how things are done in the open classes you go to.

 

My view is that some sort of rule should be there so that going to the left everyone knows where they should stand in the group beforehand.

 

Edited for typo.

[DavidW]

. Starting pas de deux does indeed introduce male dancers to some interesting angles in which to view a tutu! But I digress into other realms of the unseen world of ballet!

To add a male perspective to this... (although it might be a little off topic)

 

Just as I'm sure dancing whilst wearing a tutu is different than without, it also makes a *huge* difference to the guy when partnering. If I'm doing some partnerwork and the girl will be wearing a classical tutu for a performance I like to rehearse with the girl in the tutu at least a couple of times before the dress rehearsal/performance.

 

I've found some movements that seemed easy enough in rehearsals (with the girl just wearing a leotard) to be rather difficult when my partner puts on a tutu! You suddenly find you can't put your arms in the position you want to, can't necessarily hold your partner in the best position for a particular hold/lift, and there's the added "fun" of getting a face full of tutu when attemping things like shoulder sits! That being said, I feel like assisted pirouettes are arguably easier when the girl is wearing a tutu - I guess it is easier for me to see that she is on balance (and perhaps easier for her to feel fully "pulled up" in her torso?). Mind you, with a classical tutu you can't see the girls knee, which can make pirouettes, ummmm.., exciting!

[mimi66]

Hello, DavidW.

That sounds... possibly very painful.

[Michelle_Richer]

I know this is slightly off topic, but something happened in my class tonight which I think is significant for teachers. We did a small enchainement which started with a couple of balonné composé's the movement wasn’t named only demonstrated, I’m not sure what though me, perhaps the action of the back leg which appear to just perform a step. I should have recognised it as I must have done at least a 100 of them during rehearsal for our show at the Angles Theatre, but there it was a sliding action, we also used it in an enchainement during the LAB Summer Intensive which included a hop. But for what ever reason, I did not recognise it. Although I was able to perform the enchainement by copying our teacher, it took a lot more brain processing to remember all the body movements than a minor variation of a balonné composé.

 

I have also come across this with teachers of Salsa, where mostly body movement are taught by demonstration, admittedly in Salsa many movement are not names as its constantly evolving. However my own background in Salsa is largely Cuban, and at least that style does support a lot of named moves, using those names makes it an awful lot easier to process and remember a combination.

 

So whatever the dance type, teachers please name the movements as you demonstrate them.

 

To be fair we had a swap of teacher tonight, sometimes she dances with us, but I think that was because it was only a small class of 8 tonight against normally twice that size. When I ask her at the end of the class what the name of the movement was and she told me, I felt such a clot.

[mimi66]

[...]

At ballet school they tend to be worn in the studio for rehearsals for performances and sometimes for pas de deux but there is usually a purpose so it's not just about dressing up. Starting pas de deux does indeed introduce male dancers to some interesting angles in which to view a tutu! But I digress into other realms of the unseen world of ballet!

 

 

To add a male perspective to this... (although it might be a little off topic)

 

Just as I'm sure dancing whilst wearing a tutu is different than without, it also makes a *huge* difference to the guy when partnering. If I'm doing some partnerwork and the girl will be wearing a classical tutu for a performance I like to rehearse with the girl in the tutu at least a couple of times before the dress rehearsal/performance.

 

I've found some movements that seemed easy enough in rehearsals (with the girl just wearing a leotard) to be rather difficult when my partner puts on a tutu! You suddenly find you can't put your arms in the position you want to, can't necessarily hold your partner in the best position for a particular hold/lift, and there's the added "fun" of getting a face full of tutu when attemping things like shoulder sits! That being said, I feel like assisted pirouettes are arguably easier when the girl is wearing a tutu - I guess it is easier for me to see that she is on balance (and perhaps easier for her to feel fully "pulled up" in her torso?). Mind you, with a classical tutu you can't see the girls knee, which can make pirouettes, ummmm.., exciting!

 

By chance I came across with another exapmle of unspoken rules - when dancing PDD, it is men's responsibility to avoid being "kicked in their vital parts" by the thier lady partners while they are turnig.. be that in passe or a la seconde.

 

Bit off topic ("open" PDD class! don't want think about it), but thought it might be a good Monday morning giggle  ,

 

PS I saw it in here - a documentary about RBS, late 1970's? early 80?s

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E3IK4fLFj8

[DavidW]

By chance I came across with another exapmle of unspoken rules - when dancing PDD, it is men's responsibility to avoid being "kicked in their vital parts" by the thier lady partners while they are turnig.. be that in passe or a la seconde.

Very true! The first thing I was ever told in PDD class was "if something goes wrong, it is always the guy's fault. Even when it's the girl's fault, it's the guy's fault".

 

This might sound a bit ridiculous, but I think it has a serious point to it. In PDD it is the guy's responsibility to make sure the girl is safe at all times - some of even the simplest lifts can be very dangerous if the guy is not giving all his attention to the girl's safety. It's another reason why I think open PDD class would be a bad idea - I think PDD is best taught as part of a structured course or masterclass so that the teachers can make sure dancers build up to various moves in a safe and controlled environment.

[Thecatsmother]

Sadly it is also the male responsibility to get the correct grip for lifts as I learnt at my cost when a not so favourite PDD partner got the wrong grip for a fish dive. Luckily the floor was not far away and was able to save face by putting hands down.

 

I did also witness a student in my PDD class once fall backwards out of a shoulder lift as she was placed too far back on the shoulder of the gentleman. She was ok and PDD teacher sensibly made her repeat the lift immediately to prevent it becoming a feared move.

[LinMM]

Quite agree DaveW

 

In an open class who knows who will turn up!!

 

PDD is a skill that needs teaching very thoroughly. Who would want responsibility for injuring some dancer permanently!!

Doesn't bear thinking about!!!

[Michelle_Richer]

I have never ever seen PDD done at any of the open classes I attend, however I do know that PDD does sometime take place at the LAB classes which are totally separate from the LAB Intensives, but I don't think you could truly regard them as an open class. When you join you have to commit and pay for the full term which is quite expensive, its a two hour session each week, first hour is usual barre / centre, the next hour is rep/rehearsal. I start with them in Jan but many of my friends from ENB have already started, so I do get to know a bit about what they are doing.

[mimi66]

Back on track, more manners for the open class centre exercise.

 

When you are in the centre  and moving forward, and after have completed the dance sequence -

 

1) please keep moving forward and then move to whichever side wall is closest to you and;

 

2) keep moving, to the back of the room along the side wall.

 

 

Please please do not stop where you finished the dance sequence and then turn around and move backwards!  I am afraid this is an obvious etiquette, but I have seen this crime(?) committed by those who should known better (e.g. those who had done ballet to elementary level when young!).

 

Even where 1) is obseved, often people relax and forget to move away from the front corner of the room, making it difficult for the groups behind to complete the enchainement, as then there are too many people sort of standing in the corner.

 

Of course, I don't get annoyed too much about this in beginner's classes, but elementary level upwards classes it's quite annoying  .

 

I am sure there are many others who agree with me  out there

Edited October 28, 2013 by mimi66

[swanprincess]

I know this is slightly off topic, but something happened in my class tonight which I think is significant for teachers. We did a small enchainement which started with a couple of balonné composé's the movement wasn’t named only demonstrated, I’m not sure what though me, perhaps the action of the back leg which appear to just perform a step. I should have recognised it as I must have done at least a 100 of them during rehearsal for our show at the Angles Theatre, but there it was a sliding action, we also used it in an enchainement during the LAB Summer Intensive which included a hop. But for what ever reason, I did not recognise it. Although I was able to perform the enchainement by copying our teacher, it took a lot more brain processing to remember all the body movements than a minor variation of a balonné composé.

 

I have also come across this with teachers of Salsa, where mostly body movement are taught by demonstration, admittedly in Salsa many movement are not names as its constantly evolving. However my own background in Salsa is largely Cuban, and at least that style does support a lot of named moves, using those names makes it an awful lot easier to process and remember a combination.

 

So whatever the dance type, teachers please name the movements as you demonstrate them.

 

To be fair we had a swap of teacher tonight, sometimes she dances with us, but I think that was because it was only a small class of 8 tonight against normally twice that size. When I ask her at the end of the class what the name of the movement was and she told me, I felt such a clot.

wow i thought it was just me who thinks like that- tge other girls in my class really struggle with the names of steps. I, however, find the combinations a lot easier to pick up, and the steps easier to understand, if the teacher explains using the French terminology.

[LinMM]

I think in the grade 6 level BBO exam there is a section where the examiner sets an enchainement (not one of the set pre learned ones)

By just naming a combination of steps that the candidate then has to work out and perform.

So it's a good idea to start memorising some names at least!!

 

Sometimes if you miss part of a demo but have heard the name of the step said you can put it in.

Also it's quite nice saying the names of the steps as you are practising as it sets up a certain rhythm.

[Michelle_Richer]

Yes if you know the steps by name it requires a lot less brain power, many of the girls at one of my classes have been dancing and performing for a very long time, one of the 44years but they seldom use proper names for the step even though their present teacher who is quite new does. You get such descriptions as that funny turny thing. At one point I got reprimanded for telling some of the girls off for not using appropriate terms. But there you go, I'm only a newbie against them.

[mimi66]

Michelle, I wonder if the reason you got reprimanded was because you advised/instructed your fellow students during the class, not because what you told them was wrong... 

 

I guess it is another ballet protocol that during the class, there is only one teacher, and noone else teach.  That is even if someone asked you to show something.  For some it may come across as undemocratic but for a good reason.  Ballet is rather dangerous activity (think about being kicked by those pointe shoes!) and safety is very important issue.  A teacher is always mindful that the class as a whole remains safe (both physically and emotionally), and it makes her/his job difficult unless s/he is the sole authority in that class. 

 

Outside the class room is a different matter, though.