DancingWellies Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Remind him that the kids who get knockbacks have more experience and resilience than those that seemingly sail through. The ability to pick yourself and carry on is as important as the performance and technique. Our DD got finals for both WL & Elmhurst year 7, auditioned again in year 8 for Elmhurst and got to finals, still no place. Tried again in year 9 and got in. It's been hard but that work ethic has helped her catch up. It's also surprised me how high the drop out rate from year 7 entries has been so that's no guarantee of success either. It's not over until it's over or they give up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Sounds like your Dd has much to be proud of! Getting a scholarship to YBSS is pretty rare and mostly given to full time, vocational students. Persistence is the name of the game and having it in bucketloads! In my experience, those who have it, together with some talent and a fair amount of natural ability often go further than those with precocious talent and amazing facility, but little persistence. Magic happens when a students technical ability and strength, plot on a graph at exactly the same point as their confidence and self belief. For some, yr7, for others years 9 or 10 and so on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopedeedoo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Anyone else reaching a state of auditions fatigue? I’ve had enough now! Think dd has too she didn’t enjoy her rbs audition yesterday. Glad to have a break now until March! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glacier Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Yes Dopedeedoo I know what you mean! Can be quite a draining process. Sorry to hear your dd didn't enjoy her RBS audition yesterday, from my experience with dd though you just never can tell, as at times has had her best outcomes from auditions she enjoyed least, and negative results from what she thought were the best auditions that she enjoyed most! I've given up trying to guess what any of it means 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaramum Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Which group was you in Dopedeedoo? I'm tired from the travelling but DD has bounced into school this morning. She loves it - the auditioning, the travelling, dancing in other studios, meeting other dancers etc. It leaves me drained! LOL. Oh to have their energy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopedeedoo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Tiaramum group 4 at the end of the day which didn’t help. Up till now she’s enjoyed it and been bouncy but I think this one felt more daunting....having said that she woke up fine this morning and is looking forward to ballet later 😀 I think the after affects stay with the parents longer!! Edited February 4, 2019 by Dopedeedoo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomum Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Today my beautiful boy received an invitation to the White Lodge finals. I am so proud of him. Good luck to anyone else who is waiting. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, Motomum said: Today my beautiful boy received an invitation to the White Lodge finals. I am so proud of him. Good luck to anyone else who is waiting. Wow what a year he is having! Congratulations to him 🎉🎉🎉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomum Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Thankyou MAK. He has had an absolutely phenomenal year. Everything he has auditioned for he has been offered. 18 months ago it all started with a local EYB audition, and he hasn’t looked back since. He will be happy either way with the finals outcome, we weren’t planning to apply for WL, but his JA teacher said it would be a missed opportunity. If it’s a no he will be over the moon if he is offered MAs. He is having such a wonderful time at the moment. I on the other hand find it all very stressful. 😩 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 😍 😍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrancingMum Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Motomum said: I on the other hand find it all very stressful. 😩 I know the feeling! DD told me the other night that she was quite relaxed about audition results. Read that as "Mum stop stressing"! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 My wife and I are new to all this, and in particular to the world of private education of any kind. We have significant reservations about the value of paid-for education in general, and neither my wife nor I nor any of our four children have had anything other than state-funded education. I qualified for the bar and had all my tuition at school, university, and vocational level paid for by the state, and I also had grants to support my living expenses when I needed them. My wife went to Oxford and became a solicitor in similar fashion, and our first three children went to university having had a state education at school. Of course the increasing privatisation of the tertiary system is ruining things, but university is still just about a public good. You will have guessed, after this lengthy preamble, that our fourth child is different, and you would be right. He didn't dance a step before the age of eleven. Since then he has danced like a maniac, and I am not best placed to judge but he seems to be very good. He has been dancing in the evenings for three years and is currently dancing six days a week. He has been offered a place at Tring and at Hammond. I sympathise very much with what is said above about being caught up in an unstoppable and inexorable series of events - our son has auditioned, has been successful, and we have now realised it is going to be very difficult to tell him that he can't go to boarding school, which he is thinking will be something like Hogwarts. He will probably go to Hammond, but the question I have for anyone inclined to answer it is whether the large amount of cash we will be investing in his education will necessarily provide returns that would not be provided by his current regime of state secondary school and private dance classes in the evenings and weekends. Our son wants to join the Royal Ballet, and will certainly audition when he is a little older. Will going to the Hammond maximise his chances at sixteen, or will his raw talent be recognised by the Royal Ballet regardless of where he gets his dance education in the next two years? He works very hard at the moment. We will miss him dreadfully if he goes away, but would not for a minute deny him his opportunity in the world of dance if boarding school was going to give him that unique chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I will PM you as my reply will probably be wildly off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 This is a real "how long is a piece of string" question. Much depends on the quality of his local dance school. If he can get excellent training locally, supplemented by Associate classes, and Intensives during the holidays then he would stand a good chance of going to a good Vocational course after GCSEs. Things change radically as young people go through adolescence and may no longer be suited either physically or mentally to a career in dance. I am now going to say something very unpopular - if the vocational school is giving you some form of scholarship or bursary then yes they believe in you. If not, then there is always the danger that you are there just as ballast to make up the numbers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katia05 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Firstly, congratulations to your son on his achievements and determination so far. There's probably no clear answer as to whether the money you pay out is worth it to give him a step up and greater opportunities. He will undoubtably enjoy training full-time with like-minded students and get intensive tuition and improved confidence etc. On the other hand, he won't have your close everyday parental support going through adolescence with all its challenges, and the balance of 'normal' life at home with friends who maybe have very different hobbies and interests. The Royal Ballet company is incredibly hard to get into - see other discussions on this forum as to how few British students are actually selected - but I guess being at vocational school might give some perspective on the range and reality of opportunities, as well as expert help preparing for auditions. A lot would depend, as Pas de Quatre says, on the quality of his current dance school and whether they could provide similar support. Have they advised him one way or the other? It's easy to get caught up in the dazzle of future ambitions and hopes, but lose sight of the long-term benefits of solid, regular practice, exam work and performances, along with solid academic qualifications for later life, if the dance career is shorter than expected due to injury or change of plans. Good luck with some difficult decisions! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margarite Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I too would have never considered a private education for my daughter, she is now in her second term at Hammond. I can’t say what the future holds for her, but I can already see the benefit of both the vocational and academic classes. She works hard, but is very average academically so the smaller class sizes benefit her greatly. I feel she would get lost in the average comp, as bobs along in the middle of the class. Dance wise she has improved so much, she only took her Grade 3 last April but is already taking her IF exam in March. I think being with likeminded children has helped spur her on too. It seems to be working for us at the moment, but I do miss her! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I can pretty much echo what Margarite says except I have a very academic daughter and we actually turned down a place at a selective school for her to attend Hammond. I will reply fully by PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreverdrivingtodance Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On the other hand we took up our place at a selective school and have a really great local dance teacher. It’s a lot and tiring but dd is really happy which is all I can go by. We turned down a place at a great Vocatinal school with a 50% bursary it still was too expensive and dd decided she wanted to live at home. We will re explore her options when older. Edited February 7, 2019 by Dancer123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomum Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) For us WL was never going to be an option until I was asked by my sons JA teacher why he wasn’t auditioning and found out he could be a day attendee and that his teacher felt it was important he should have the opportunity to audition and suggested I contact RBS and chat with them. I did, hence the finals outcome. My sons place would be on a full bursary, and he has SEN which would have to be fully supported. RBS are aware of all this and said, let him audition, let’s see what happens, then we can have a conversation about what happens next. He is currently Home Educated, has been for three years, so the educational support package from RBS would have to be really, really good if they want him, and for us to give up what he currently has access to. I have been assured by the RBS powers that be, everything is about the child’s dancing potential and ability, so we shall see. For my son he is very happy to be spending a day at White Lodge doing what he loves, and it is for me to weigh up the pros and cons afterwards should he be offered a place. I have many misgivings and concerns about the whole process of auditioning. For now though I just want my son to enjoy this experience alongside his dancing peers. Edited February 7, 2019 by Motomum Missed out words. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 There are very few non vocational schools in the UK that can provide a suitable training for someone thinking of a classical career or rather starting at a classically focused school at 16. However, there are a few, and who knows, you may be lucky enough to live near one. If that was the case then you would have reassurance that your son was receiving the type of education you wish whilst being able to support him in his training at home. It is impossible to predict which one would have the better outcome because it will depend on your sons personality and whether he is more motivated by being at home or by being away. Some kids get lost in these big institutions while others thrive. One of the issues most people find with the latter set up is that the homework becomes too difficult to cope with whilst undertaking the sort of intense training needed to achieve a place at 16. Vocational schools balance the homework with the training but obviously there’s a price to pay. I empathise with your difficult decision. We have moved twice so that my Dc can be a day pupil at vocational schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Dancer123 said: On the other hand we took up our place at a selective school and have a really great local dance teacher. It’s a lot and tiring but dd is really happy which is all I can go by. We turned down a place at a great Vocatinal school with a 50% bursary it still was too expensive and dd decided she wanted to live at home. We will re explore her options when older. 11 minutes ago, valentina said: There are very few non vocational schools in the UK that can provide a suitable training for someone thinking of a classical career or rather starting at a classically focused school at 16. However, there are a few, and who knows, you may be lucky enough to live near one. If that was the case then you would have reassurance that your son was receiving the type of education you wish whilst being able to support him in his training at home. It is impossible to predict which one would have the better outcome because it will depend on your sons personality and whether he is more motivated by being at home or by being away. Some kids get lost in these big institutions while others thrive. One of the issues most people find with the latter set up is that the homework becomes too difficult to cope with whilst undertaking the sort of intense training needed to achieve a place at 16. Vocational schools balance the homework with the training but obviously there’s a price to pay. I empathise with your difficult decision. We have moved twice so that my Dc can be a day pupil at vocational schools. And if I remember correctly from previous threads Dancer123 is one of those lucky rare exceptions and the teacher her dd goes to is on a par with any vocational school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Sorry, wanted to add that RBS are more likely to accept your son in the early years based on ‘raw talent’ than later on, where he would need to fit in to a group of dancers who have had intense specialised training. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreverdrivingtodance Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Be led by your child. Not sure we will be able to keep up with what we are doing forever. As time progresses we will constantly reassess the decision that was right for our child. We can audition each year for other things and we trust our teacher and will be guided by them. As to be honest I have no clue about dance! No decision is irreversible. If you pick one path and it does not prove to be the right one you can change. Although harder as they get older I am sure a bit of luck/fate is involved. Good problems/choices to have. What’s right for one child is not necessarily right for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreverdrivingtodance Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Going back to the post if he has been offered Tring and Hammond and wants to go and you can afford it I would probably let him. Could he try for Royal sooner than 16? Try for an associate place? I don’t know much about Hammond but aren’t Trings academics really good. I think like other posters said if he does not go to a vocational school you have to be a really good local dance school and try to get into an associate scheme.Do holidays courses etc as the hours will probably never match those at a vocational school. I think by year 10 perhaps you do have to be at a vocational school to keep up but sure there is probably always exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margarite Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 There was an article posted recently about academics at Hammond: http://www.boarding.org.uk/media/news/article/10011/Academic-and-Vocational-Excellence-At-The-Hammond- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletbean Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Motomum said: For us WL was never going to be an option until I was asked by my sons JA teacher why he wasn’t auditioning and found out he could be a day attendee and that his teacher felt it was important he should have the opportunity to audition and suggested I contact RBS and chat with them. I did, hence the finals outcome. My sons place would be on a full bursary, and he has SEN which would have to be fully supported. RBS are aware of all this and said, let him audition, let’s see what happens, then we can have a conversation about what happens next. He is currently Home Educated, has been for three years, so the educational support package from RBS would have to be really, really good if they want him, and for us to give up what he currently has access to. I have been assured by the RBS powers that be, everything is about the child’s dancing potential and ability, so we shall see. For my son he is very happy to be spending a day at White Lodge doing what he loves, and it is for me to weigh up the pros and cons afterwards should he be offered a place. I have many misgivings and concerns about the whole process of auditioning. For now though I just want my son to enjoy this experience alongside his dancing peers. I wish you and your son all the best. The benefits of dancing is well documented for pupils with SEN. With many becoming highly skilled in their genre where SEN holds no boundaries. Unfortunately I don’t think the message has quite got through to so many in authority. Supporting your son to audition could be very rewarding. With the explanation and understanding in place beforehand about possible outcomes. Then the next step (excuse the pun) and outcome of the audition. The experience could be very beneficial. Pushing him outside his usual comfort zone. Skills could be learnt from being more independent, decision making and interacting with peers as well as being away from his usual social circles. Along with the right support and understanding from the audition panel I would say, as long as the old bank account can support the cost, go for it. Enjoy the day not just your son but for you as well. Treat it as a great day out. Amazing what can happen without heightened expectations. Just listening to the Minister for Education this morning supporting Music and Sport without even mentioning Performing Arts as a whole was so demoralising this morning. Just wish there was a spokesperson that could become an advocate for the Arts (dance & drama) that would be able to have high level discussions with the Ministers and to ensure the Arts get support and recognition from the base level right through to professional level and even beyond. The endorphins that are released through dancing can be the best medicine but many only recognise sport as the be all and end all for everyone’s health and fitness. Silver Swans is a prime example. I wish both you and your son all the best. 🙆🏻♂️❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 In my view, best chance of getting into RBS at 16 is to get full time training. Not sure but I believe only one girl has received a place at upper school who was non vocational in the last few years. Boys do better at vocational school. We all miss our children when they go away to vocational school, it’s a sacrifice we make to help them follow their dreams. I imagine that as your son has places now, you are not looking for funding as the funding auditions have not been yet (unless he is so exceptional he was not required to do the funding audition). That being the case I would try to find a very highly regarded, independent assessor to give a true opinion on your sons suitability to perhaps stand a chance of RBS upper school (hard to say as bodies change as do desires and understanding of the realities of life as a dancer). RBS upper school do not pick raw talent. They pick virtually fully trained dancers who just need polish, style, more strength and artistry. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glissade Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I imagine your family's successful experiences of state education have more to do with the teachers who inspired you and your attitude to learning than they have with the fact your parents weren't paying extra for your education. If the teachers who inspire your son happen to be in a fee-paying school, then don't let the state vs private debate put you off ...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I think it would be fair to say that, although many Dcs dream of making it to RBS upper school, that dream is for a minuscule minority, whether you have been to vocational school or not - and that includes White Lodge. Important to have the dream and inspiration but as time goes on most dancers reflect on where they will best suited and expect to follow other routes, classical or otherwise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomum Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, balletbean said: I wish you and your son all the best. The benefits of dancing is well documented for pupils with SEN. With many becoming highly skilled in their genre where SEN holds no boundaries. Unfortunately I don’t think the message has quite got through to so many in authority. Supporting your son to audition could be very rewarding. With the explanation and understanding in place beforehand about possible outcomes. Then the next step (excuse the pun) and outcome of the audition. The experience could be very beneficial. Pushing him outside his usual comfort zone. Skills could be learnt from being more independent, decision making and interacting with peers as well as being away from his usual social circles. Along with the right support and understanding from the audition panel I would say, as long as the old bank account can support the cost, go for it. Enjoy the day not just your son but for you as well. Treat it as a great day out. Amazing what can happen without heightened expectations. Just listening to the Minister for Education this morning supporting Music and Sport without even mentioning Performing Arts as a whole was so demoralising this morning. Just wish there was a spokesperson that could become an advocate for the Arts (dance & drama) that would be able to have high level discussions with the Ministers and to ensure the Arts get support and recognition from the base level right through to professional level and even beyond. The endorphins that are released through dancing can be the best medicine but many only recognise sport as the be all and end all for everyone’s health and fitness. Silver Swans is a prime example. I wish both you and your son all the best. 🙆🏻♂️❤️ Thank you very much. Your words are lovely and very true to what I k ow as a parent to child with additional needs.❤️ I know with all my heart that ballet has changed the course of my sons life, it has positively affected everything he does and so much of who he is becoming. His SEN is absolutely insignificant in his ballet classes, when he is learning, when he is performing, in his dance exams. He is a more resilient, emotionally well balanced boy because of it. He brings his own spirit of uniqueness to ballet. Nothing about ballet has been a negative for him. He is very much in the moment, loving his life whether he stays doing ballet or not, he has had a more enriched life experience because of it whatever the outcome. I hope that those in higher up places can see further than his SEN. 🤞🏻🤞🏻❤️ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletbean Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) Back in December I posted a comment about the NBS ballet production, whilst congratulating the cast I made mention of the young lady that played a guest part in the show. On stage throughout A truly outstanding performance . The most amazing news was posted today. A friend took this young lady to a Mid Associate audition in Manchester. RBS have just written back and invited the young lady to the Finals 2 for a full time place at WL. Making reference in the letter that they appreciate that she ‘may not have considered a full time place’. As she hadn’t even selected the box!! Amazing things do happen to amazing people. Keep going folks you just never know who it will happen to next. 🤩🙆♀️ Edited February 7, 2019 by balletbean 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutusrus Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 With regards to education at Hammond. My DD was always “just average” (her primary teachers words) and I worried about her being lost in the local comprehensive system as she was also very shy. It wasn’t an easy decision to board but we are very pleased we did. She has excelled academically and on target to achieve grades we would never have expected. She has matured into a confident, mature and kind individual (was worrringly shy but being with likeminded peers resulted in her being her true self) and I truly believe this is as a result of her schooling at Hammond. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomum Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Hello all, might I ask, those of you with children, boys if possible, who have been through the White Lodge final auditions, what the day actually consists of? i would like to give my son some idea of what to expect as he doesn’t cope well with just ‘going into something’ with no idea at all of what to expect. I know there will be ballet 😁, but that is all I know, but how does it differ from the Preliminary audition if at all? Someone has said there is an exam, my son is Home Educated so I would really find it useful if anyone knows what this means in application. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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