Progressions: New RAD Advanced Syllabi

[ElllieP]

When will the switch to the new syllabus take place? My dd is due to do AF next spring, so will that be the old or new syllabus?

[aileen]

I feel that it all comes down to the purpose of these exams. Are they for talented non-vocational students who want to follow a demanding syllabus (alongside or after completion of the graded exams) but have no aspirations to become professional dancers? Or are they designed to give prospective professional dancers who are not yet in vocational training the kind of training which they would be getting if they were at vocational school? If it is the latter then I feel that the exams need to be really demanding, in terms of both technique and strength, otherwise the students could be given an unrealistic impression of their level in comparison to the level of vocational students. When I read of 13 year olds being able to pass (the existing) Advanced 1 and 2 exams with high marks I do wonder whether those exams bear any relation to what vocational students are doing.

[Legseleven]

EllieP, the new syllabi will be examined from 1 January 2015, so your DD will be doing the current Advanced Foundation syllabus for an exam in spring 2014.

[taxi4ballet]

I feel that it all comes down to the purpose of these exams. Are they for talented non-vocational students who want to follow a demanding syllabus (alongside or after completion of the graded exams) but have no aspirations to become professional dancers? Or are they designed to give prospective professional dancers who are not yet in vocational training the kind of training which they would be getting if they were at vocational school? If it is the latter then I feel that the exams need to be really demanding, in terms of both technique and strength, otherwise the students could be given an unrealistic impression of their level in comparison to the level of vocational students. When I read of 13 year olds being able to pass (the existing) Advanced 1 and 2 exams with high marks I do wonder whether those exams bear any relation to what vocational students are doing.

13-year-olds aren't eligible to take advanced 1 and 2 as far as I know as they're not old enough.

 

As to the purpose, I suppose the exams are for anyone with sufficient talent, whether in full-time training or not!

[Anon2]

There s a link from the Elmhurst home page to a sample of the Advanced launch. Interesting to watch the exercises develop through the grades.  

[balletla]

13-year-olds aren't eligible to take advanced 1 and 2 as far as I know as they're not old enough.

 

As to the purpose, I suppose the exams are for anyone with sufficient talent, whether in full-time training or not!

 

There's a rule that says if you get distinction in your exam you can take the next one a year early and you can take it in the year that you turn that age, so 13 year olds can and do take Adv 1 

[Anna C]

There's a rule that says if you get distinction in your exam you can take the next one a year early and you can take it in the year that you turn that age, so 13 year olds can and do take Adv 1 

I couldn't find any info about this on the RAD website; only the entry requirements and tables of minimum ages. Is it written anywhere?

[taxi4ballet]

Perhaps students aged 13 might be able to take advanced 1 theoretically (and I suppose a few do take it), but they would have had to have passed Inter with distinction and you can't take that until you are 12, so it would be a big challenge at 13, particularly for the pointe section in Adv 1!

 

It's probably not something that could be achieved on two or three classes a week, and pretty much impossible for those who don't start pointework early, and we know how controversial that can be...

[balletla]

I couldn't find any info about this on the RAD website; only the entry requirements and tables of minimum ages. Is it written anywhere?

 

I think it's in a special RAD handbook for teachers of which there are several versions which don't seem to be widely published. Maybe one of the RAD teachers on the forum can help? 

 

I can assure you though that there are several 13 year olds at our dance school (and I have come across others at other schools) who have taken Adv 1 at 13 and it is fairly normal for anyone who is considered talented e.g. RBS associate or similar. These children are taking IF at age 10 and Inter at 11. Sometimes it is because the exams are done in 'school years' and so those that are born later take it at the lower age.

 

However, I am not sure that this will be the case with the new syllabus as the teacher has said, it is designed to be done at an older age and take longer.

[Dance*is*life]

They've done away with the exception clause for entering an exam early, together with the change in age limit whereby you have to be the minimum age by the January or June before the exam rather than by the end of the year in which you take the exam.

 

The RAD WAS originally a training system. I still have the books for the Six Years of Study for the more advanced levels and my original Primary certificate from 1953, which was called something like Ballet in Education syllabus, can't remember exactly. Of course all the steps in the vocabulary always had to be taught separately before teaching the settings, but the old settings for the Advanced 1 and 2 were far more straightforward and so easier to pass on to the students. I thought they were excellent actually and really enjoyed teaching them. They were challenging and interesting and many professional dancers perfected their technique by working on the exam syllabi, which were on a very high standard both vocabulary wise and technical difficulty. I also much preferred the old style free enchainements without the focal steps etc, which I find very restricting. I find the new work much more complicated choreographically and musically - it gives me the impression that they have thrown everything in but the kitchen sink! I personally like enchainements that are natural and flow easily and I find the new style rather "bitty" - a bit of that - a bit of this! Still, as I said I am reserving final judgement until we actually have a course in it.

[Sadielou]

They've done away with the exception clause for entering an exam early, together with the change in age limit whereby you have to be the minimum age by the January or June before the exam rather than by the end of the year in which you take the exam.

 

The RAD WAS originally a training system. I still have the books for the Six Years of Study for the more advanced levels and my original Primary certificate from 1953, which was called something like Ballet in Education syllabus, can't remember exactly. Of course all the steps in the vocabulary always had to be taught separately before teaching the settings, but the old settings for the Advanced 1 and 2 were far more straightforward and so easier to pass on to the students. I thought they were excellent actually and really enjoyed teaching them. They were challenging and interesting and many professional dancers perfected their technique by working on the exam syllabi, which were on a very high standard both vocabulary wise and technical difficulty. I also much preferred the old style free enchainements without the focal steps etc, which I find very restricting. I find the new work much more complicated choreographically and musically - it gives me the impression that they have thrown everything in but the kitchen sink! I personally like enchainements that are natural and flow easily and I find the new style rather "bitty" - a bit of that - a bit of this! Still, as I said I am reserving final judgement until we actually have a course in it.

Totally agree with everything you have said and my words exactly "Everything but the kitchen sink"!

[Legseleven]

It is possible for teachers to obtain permission from the RAD to enter a student who is below the specified minimum age; I know of 4 teachers who have done so. I haven't heard of permission being refused but assume that the teacher's record in terms of exam entries may be a factor, possibly along with the student's exam record?

 

Students mature - physically and emotionally - at different rates and although I believe it is suggested that the vocational grades should take approximately 2 years each, there will always be students who are exam-ready in less time - or who need more time. From what I have seen and from the teachers' comments in this thread (and from DD's vocational examiner teacher), the new Advanced syllabi are more complex than the current syllabi and may well mean that the majority of students do indeed need more time at each level. However, the increased complexity ensures that the RAD, whilst updating its syllabi, remains at the forefront of ballet training as a system recognised worldwide for its technical, choreographic, musical and artistic excellence. Ballet at an advanced vocational level should, surely, be complex? RAD vocational and children's grades have always been considered best suited to talented students and that clearly remains the case.

[Pas de Quatre]

I was at one of the group showings for teachers, and the general reaction was one of dismay.  Although we have only seen excerpts, if the rest is in a similar vein I think it is very disappointing.  The solos are very poorly choreographed and I too think it is "everything but the kitchen sink".  In ballet as in music or literature there is an internal logic and syntax, even in very modern works.  If the RAD wanted challenging solos, then they would have done better to use ones from the established repertoire or else commission good choreographers to produce new ones.

 

This combined with the overbearing CPD requirements will, I am sure lead to many teachers questioning whether it is worth continuing with RAD. 

[Sadielou]

So glad to read this PDQ was beginning to think I was the only one.

Also the CPD requirements are ridiculous, call teachers in on a refresher course if the students they teach are not reaching required standards, but other than that it just seems to be yet another money making exercise.

[Dance*is*life]

Legseleven - do you know when the 4 teachers you mentioned got permission to enter children underage? The new minimum age rule just came into being this year, it's only been in force since January 2013. When I wrote to them with a general enquiry as to whether they would still allow exceptions, I was told no.

[Legseleven]

One of them last month, Dance*is*life - I will PM you.

[Anna C]

If the new syllabi are going to be more difficult to even teach, let alone study, and if we're talking two years between exams, will this affect students applying next year for Upper Schools?

 

You could theoretically have two students of the same standard; one who is taking the old Adv 1 exam and one who is taking the new Adv Foundation. How much bearing would that have on the application process, I wonder? Would the school assume that the Adv Foundation student has less ballet vocabulary than the Adv 1 student, despite the increased difficulty of the new syllabi?

[afab]

I don't think it would matter at all since kids audition for Upper schools from different parts of the world and some of them wouldn't even know what RAD is... Upper schools are after a certain level and a certain something that has nothing to do with exams...

[Anna C]

I agree afab but I do wonder if UK Upper Schools use the level being studied/last exam taken as an indicator of level - and even, in schools where there is a paper-sift before auditions, an indicator of whether to offer an audition or not.

[Dance*is*life]

That's an interesting point, but whilst the new Advanced Foundation is definitely harder technically and richer vocabulary wise than the old AF, I don't think it is quite up to the old Adv 1, although I'm sure that the audition panel will be aware of the upgrade to AF. Anyway, the situation wouldn't arise because you can't take the new exams yet, so anyone taking the old Adv 1 would have to have done so before January 2015 and anyone up for the new AF after Jan 2015. Quite honestly I don't think the exams are that important a factor in the decision making cycle. I'm sure both AF or Adv 1 are acceptable and the decision will be made at the actual audition.

[Anna C]

That's good to hear, thank you. :-)

[afab]

I agree afab but I do wonder if UK Upper Schools use the level being studied/last exam taken as an indicator of level - and even, in schools where there is a paper-sift before auditions, an indicator of whether to offer an audition or not.

I know it is not the same but when my DDs auditioned for high level SS like RBS, Elmhurst or the like and since they don't do RAD and have never done a ballet exam that is not internal to the school, we tell them how many hours of each dance they do a week and how many years the've been doing and once a teacher wrote a letter stating what they could achieve. With that, they have been placed in the right level without any problem. I think one could do the same when applying for upper schools...

[2dancersmum]

I really don't think it matters either spanner as I don't think the exams matter much in terms of decision making - only the audition.  My DD auditioned during the similar phase for the foundation and intermediate syllabi being changed/examined and I know there were students there who had taken old style intermediate and advanced 1 already aswell as students who had started on the new intermediate course and therefore not yet been able to take the exam.  It did not seem to make much difference as to which students were offered places or funding.

[Pas de Quatre]

Exams have absolutely no relevance to who will be selected by Vocational schools.  It is entirely possible for an able, well trained dancer, to get quite high marks in exams but still not have the physique and potential for being a professional dancer that the schools are looking for.   

[Dance*is*life]

Yes, also some schools work slower than others, perhaps because they can't offer enough classes and some students with borderline ages according to school intake may be behind or ahead in their ballet because of that, so that their exam level may not truly reflect their ability. I have two girls who are due to take Inter this coming session - one is 14 and one 15 but they are in the same class at school and in ballet. Also, as people have noted, not everyone does RAD.

 

I sent a student to the Prague Master Classes this summer. She is one who took Advanced 1 early at 13 and 10 months. I would have preferred to give her another year on it, but knew that the class below hers wouldn't be able to do the syllabus (she always worked with older girls). She never took Advanced 2, because the girls she was with graduated before she was ready for it. However, I simply told them in Prague that she was at Advanced 2 level and they accepted my statement. I have students who are at the level of the exam, but choose not to take it for financial reasons or because they don't like exams. It doesn't detract from their standard (although I personally feel that the exams do push them on to greater heights) and were they to audition for a place in an SI I would hope that it would go by their actual audition.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Dance*is*life

[twinkletoes]

the audition is the deciding factor not the exam, as has been mentioned there is an examination world outside out the RAD

 

I love the new syllabus, I suspect thought that there are some very worried teachers as it will be very hard to teach but hopefully will remove the pressure to push through exams as a student will be very hard pushed to fully do the syllabus in less than 2 years 

[hfbrew]

Exams have absolutely no relevance to who will be selected by Vocational schools. It is entirely possible for an able, well trained dancer, to get quite high marks in exams but still not have the physique and potential for being a professional dancer that the schools are looking for.

 

 

So true. Ive known students accepted for full time training at 16 despite not having done RAD exams. Yet my advanced student who passed with distinction didnt get a 6th form place.

 

Edited September 13, 2013 by hfbrew

[drdance]

So glad to read this PDQ was beginning to think I was the only one.

Also the CPD requirements are ridiculous, call teachers in on a refresher course if the students they teach are not reaching required standards, but other than that it just seems to be yet another money making exercise.

 

In any other walk of life CPD is required - indeed in most professions it is sought by the individual. Take teaching in a secondary school - everyone always has a focus of their teaching that they want to improve, and targets are set every year. It irritates me that so many people think that the RAD/ISTD/IDTA etc put on CPD courses to make money - you can learn so much from attending courses! No-one is ever a perfect teacher, despite wonderful exam results, or students winning competitions, or getting into schools and colleges. You're not perfect when you're young and fresh out of training, and you're not perfect when you've had years of experience. I love to learn from other teachers - I just wish I had more time and more opportunities to do so.

[Dance*is*life]

I certainly don't object to doing courses and whenever we have any I'm one of the first to sign up, but there are not always suitable courses that are relevant to my needs.  Also they are very expensive.  My son works in Hi-tec  and when he is sent by his firm on a course, they pay for it.  I imagine that the RAD can't afford to pay for us, but they could lower the costs somewhat.  Many teachers find it hard to make both ends meet and simply can't afford any added expenses. 

 

My personal belief is that when a teacher thinks she has nothing more to learn or to improve in her teaching then it's time to stop teaching.Having said that, my quarrel with it is that I actually do hundreds of hours of activities each year related to refreshing and improving my teaching and can prove pretty much all of it.  However, the RAD insists on only allowing 8 hours of all that time and money I spend as part of their requirement and they expect me to do another 16 hours of their courses to complete the requirement.  Why would my going to a business management course for studio owners improve my teaching more than several hours spent watching SS classes for example?   Especially as I don't have my own school.  I take two classes a week with different teachers throughout the year - I listen to corrections, take in enchainements, observe other approaches to getting the most out of an exercise and it allows me still to demonstrate at my great age.  That adds up to some 120 hours of enrichment, but they refuse to count that.

[yetanotherdancemum]

DD is, as I type this, sitting the new Advanced Foundation exam. She is part of a pilot for the new syllabus which isn't examinable until January 2015. They started learning the syllabus in August/September 2013 so it feels scarily fast to me but she is at vocational school so they have had the opportunity to fit in extra class time in the run up to the exam. She has very much enjoyed the new syllabus although it is challenging and the level of pointe work is a considerable step up from Intermediate. They are also being filmed in their exams so that the footage can be used to help train examiners ....no pressure! Fingers crossed it goes well today...am waiting fore a text to tell me she has finished and hopefully that it has gone ok!!

[Circe]

Thats interesting yetanotherdance mum, I hope she enjoys the exam and does well- there is a lot to learn for pupils and teachers.  I was just wondering:had she also done the old Adv F  or did she do this as a follow on from Intermediate?

[drdance]

Wow! I'm sure she will do very well. What an exciting thing to be part of the history of the RAD!

[yetanotherdancemum]

Thanks chaperone! She did this as a follow on from Intermediate.