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Royal Ballet "perilously under-starred"?


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I take both of your points, Janet. Obviously, people are entitled to see top class performances wherever they live. There is a risk that an occasional ballet-goer could be disappointed with the performance of an up and coming dancer but these dancers have to start somewhere. It would obviously be unacceptable if tour performances were only cast with younger dancers but that is not the case as all the principals tour as far as I am aware. I don't discount age, experience and rank but, in my admittedly inexpert opinion, up and coming dancers today are usually of a very high standard and can give very creditable if not outstanding performances (and let's not forget that many performances by principals are creditable rather than outstanding).

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As has been said before I think, appearing on the ROH stage in a leading or substantial role is a daunting prospect for a young, up and coming dancer and I think that the powers that be at the RB are, understandably, nervous about this as well and cast cautiously.

 

But that is what all young dancers train for, dream about, yearn to do.  It is a bit like saying that playing in a Grand Slam is a daunting prospect for a young, up and coming tennis player, therefore they should not try before they think they will win. 

 

I agree that a youngster plucked straight out of ballet school and thrown into a leading role, with no previous experience of dancing on the stage, would probably be very nervous.  But it is no more daunting for a talented young dancer with soloist experience at the ROH to appear in a Principal role at the ROH than it is at the Paris Opera House, the Mariinsky or the Bolshoi.

 

I agree that there have been some wonderful Principals over the years drafted in from other companies.  But if there is a gap in the Principal ranks, and it is felt that none of the current crop of younger dancers are quite ready,  I think they should come as Guest Artists on a shortish, fixed term contract. 

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I take both of your points, Janet. Obviously, people are entitled to see top class performances wherever they live. There is a risk that an occasional ballet-goer could be disappointed with the performance of an up and coming dancer but these dancers have to start somewhere. It would obviously be unacceptable if tour performances were only cast with younger dancers but that is not the case as all the principals tour as far as I am aware. I don't discount age, experience and rank but, in my admittedly inexpert opinion, up and coming dancers today are usually of a very high standard and can give very creditable if not outstanding performances (and let's not forget that many performances by principals are creditable rather than outstanding).

 

I personally love seeing younger dancers getting an opportunity.  How thrilled was I to see Chi Cao making his debut as Romeo in Sunderland!!

 

However I have heard audience members muttering when they have realised they are not seeing principals in leading roles.  I am afraid I did once remonstrate with someone telling them that we were fortunate to see one of the best dancers in a company making their debut.  The person did say to me at the end how much they had enjoyed the performance!

 

But that is what all young dancers train for, dream about, yearn to do.  It is a bit like saying that playing in a Grand Slam is a daunting prospect for a young, up and coming tennis player, therefore they should not try before they think they will win. 

 

I agree that a youngster plucked straight out of ballet school and thrown into a leading role, with no previous experience of dancing on the stage, would probably be very nervous.  But it is no more daunting for a talented young dancer with soloist experience at the ROH to appear in a Principal role at the ROH than it is at the Paris Opera House, the Mariinsky or the Bolshoi.

 

I agree that there have been some wonderful Principals over the years drafted in from other companies.  But if there is a gap in the Principal ranks, and it is felt that none of the current crop of younger dancers are quite ready,  I think they should come as Guest Artists on a shortish, fixed term contract. 

 

Alexander Campbell was cast as Bootface in Lady and the Fool technically before he had joined BRB.  He told us in a talk some years ago that he saw his name on the casting board on his first or second day with BRB!

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I think that we have travelled down this route before. But, surely, Yuhui Choe has done more than enough to merit promotion.

 

Sorry Capybara but I have to say I think she is a bit 'marmite'. Technically brilliant but lacking emotional connection for me, particularly in some key principal roles.

Edited by Ribbons
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I respond to her dance quality, especially her fluid arms and softness of movement.

 

Did you see her as Gamzatti, Alice or the Girl in The Lesson, Ribbons? I felt that she showed us very different sides to her characterisation in these roles

 

But, again, it is interesting, isn't it,  how each of us 'feels' a dancer in different ways..

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Another area of interest this week is that a number of RB fans have ventured across to the Coliseum to watch ENB's Le Corsaire. Some appear to have done so only because Alina has been dancing the lead, Medora, at several performances. However, it is interesting to ask oneself whether the RB could field several really strong male casts (as Conrad, Ali, Lankendem and Birbanto) to match ENB's current line up.  I suspect not.

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As the male casting of Don Q. left a bit to be desired, I suspect you are correct there.

It is only since Mr O'Hare has become AD that a relatively high number of strong boys have joined the RB and IMO that's why there is a gap in the higher ranks. 

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Someone with a blog (I can't remember who) who had observed both RB and ENB classes opined that there were slightly different priorities in those classes with ENB emphasising bravura jumping, turning etc for the men over perfect lines, placement etc (I don't know whether I'm using the correct terms). That's only one person's opinion, of course, and it may not be accurate or reflect the current situation, but I thought that it was an interesting comparison. Does anyone else who has watched classes at both companies have a view?

 

Edited for grammar

Edited by aileen
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And going back to Yuhui, whom I like very much, I think that dancers can express emotion in the way they move, without 'acting' in the conventional sense. For me, some 'dramatic' dancers overact. I love Yuhui's style of movement; there is something soft and warm about it. I find some dancers rather cold and brittle and they appeal less to me.

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Someone with a blog (I can't remember who) who had observed both RB and ENB classes opined that there were slightly different priorities in those classes with ENB emphasising bravura jumping, turning etc for the men over perfect lines, placement etc (I don't know whether I'm using the correct terms). That's only one person's opinion, of course, and it may not be accurate or reflect the current situation, but I thought that it was an interesting comparison. Does anyone else who has watched classes at both companies have a view?

 

Edited for grammar

 

I have no idea whether it is true, but I kind of hope it is. It would be good if the RB and ENB offered something different, had different niches.

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Well in a perfect world it would be nice to have both!! Lovely lines and neatness and bravura jumps and turns etc. but it's probably only rare individuals who can combine both. I do think its great to have such a good choice of companys to go and see and be equally excited by them!

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Another area of interest this week is that a number of RB fans have ventured across to the Coliseum to watch ENB's Le Corsaire. Some appear to have done so only because Alina has been dancing the lead, Medora, at several performances.

 

Why do you insist on dividing people into RB fans and ENB fans, capybara?  Is there no overlap?  A lot of people on here would say otherwise.  And "ventured"?  You mean they'd never been there before, and it's such a difficult trek to find your way from the ROH to the Coliseum? :) (BTW, the quick route is via the passage by Patisserie Valérie). 

Yes, I went to see the Alina cast, but mainly because I'd already seen Tamara in Oxford, and there were a limited number of cast options I could get to see in London.  And Muntagirov was dancing, too, let's not forget that.  And come to think of it, Gruzdyev was dancing Lankendem, and I wanted to see Shiori as Gulnare after reading reports of her, so it was a no-brainer, really.

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Why do you insist on dividing people into RB fans and ENB fans, capybara?  Is there no overlap?  A lot of people on here would say otherwise.  

 

I was only responding to what various people I have met have said. They were creating a divide, not me. Indeed some made the journey from the ROH to the Coli sound like a major expedition and act of bravery. I am a fan, and appreciate the qualities, of both companies

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I didn't know there was a PV in Bedford Street.  What great news. It's my favourite and I have never got over the one in Brompton Road closing.  PV's cakes and gateaux are to die for.  What a mine of information this forum is!

From "Safari outings" between ROH and the Coliseum, to the cakes&gateaux at PV, indeed a fun Forum providing us all with great info :) 

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I agree Patsomerset I love their salads too (just to be boring) especially the Greek one..... among other more supposedly "only once a week" items!!

 

I will have to suss out this Bedford Street one next time in Covent Garden.

 

In case anyone is down this way there's one on the main drag (western road) between Brighton and Hove just before Palmeira Square and it's a very nice one too......the bit at the back has a glass roof so nice and light.

 

I must admit I can't get into the mindset of people who would make an issue of going to the Coli instead of ROH. How do they get themselves up to London in the first place then!! Such a den of iniquity after all!!

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I must admit I can't get into the mindset of people who would make an issue of going to the Coli instead of ROH. How do they get themselves up to London in the first place then!! Such a den of iniquity after all!!

 

I think that some fans are so very hooked on the RB that they are reluctant to taste the wares of other companies. But one has to appreciate that there are often financial considerations in play also.

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All this talk of the Royal Ballet being under-starred.

 

I am looking forward to seeing the Royal Ballet's Giselle tomorrow evening. if you notice the cast list I think you will agree that there is not much danger of that particular performance being under-starred.  Although I am very fond of other companies, particularly Scottish Ballet, the Birmingham Royal Ballet, Ballet Black, English National Ballet and Northern Ballet, I still regard the Royal Ballet as the gold standard rightly or wrongly.

 

I will review the show and if anybody is interested I shall cut and paste my review to the appropriate forum here. I can no longer take you to my blog because of a recent change of the rules but I don't think there can be any objection to my reproducing an article which I have written and of which I own the copyright so long as I excise any links to pages in my publication.

 

It is such a long time since I last visited the House even though I have been a Friend of Covent Garden for most of my life. I feared a cardiac arrest when I thought I might miss out on tickets for the Dutch National Ballet Junior Company at the Linbury on the 29 May so I shall rejoin the Friends as soon as I can afford to do so

 

There is also the live streaming of Jewels from Russia to look forward to. Not a bad weekend for ballet.  

 

I probably spend far too much time and far too much money on ballet lessons and watching ballet than is good for me - but what the hell.

Edited by terpsichore
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Is the Coli usually more expensive than the ROH then Capybara? It's just that in recent ticket buying I personally seem to have paid less for my Coli tickets with reasonably good seats. I'm slowly getting priced out of the ROH stalls circle now so has to be standing or front ish Amphi there and my front ish Amphi for Sleeping Beauty there was not exactly cheap. When I went to see Corsaire and was in row B in the Upper Circle the seat was still at least ten pounds cheaper than I feel I would have had to pay at the ROH for a similar view!!

But this is just my recent experience it may not always be so.

 

Or did you mean that if you are an avid RB fan you have to see other company's as an "extra" so then it becomes expensive!!

For me personally now I could not go to all performances I wanted of say both the RB and ENB so have to decide what is the priority for me in any particular season which is why the repertoire of a company becomes very important. I don't live in London either so have travelling costs on top but luckily can stay up free if need to! Just can't go to everything so have to pick and choose.

 

The last comment I made was a bit of a jibe I must admit!! When I used to live in Islington (just off the Holloway Road) friends from further afield couldn't imagine how I ever went out as there seemed to be a murder a minute to them.......if you read the local rag at the time too much you might have believed this too!! But I do understand that to some London can seem a bit threatening or at least just plain daunting as its so huge etc so was a bit naughty of me!!

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Lin, there is a wider range of ticket prices at the ROH, with some much more expensive (eg over £100 for The Nutcracker) and some cheaper (eg £6 or even less for certain performances). The prices for ballet at the Coli seem to range from £10 to £74 and there are half price tickets for children (I'm not sure whether this applies to all performances) whereas I have always paid full-price at the ROH, although I believe that there are some 'family deals' but I've never taken advantage of them. Visiting companies may charge more at both venues. ENB has recently started charging different prices for different performances of the same production. I've no knowledge of discounts for students, young people etc at either venue and perhaps someone else can advise on this.

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if you have got good eyesight and don't mind climbing umpteen flights of starts to the top of the amphitheatre you can see stars like Acosta and Osipova for less than the cost of watching Matthew Bourne's Sleeping Beauty in the Bradford Alhambra and just possibly enjoy the show more.

 

The main problem of watching ballet in London is not so much theatre ticket prices as the king's ransoms charged by railway companies, car parks and hotels and restaurants in Central London. I drive to Luton Parkway which takes 2 hours 30 minutes (I would need to allow 1 hour and 30 minutes to get into Manchester, Leeds or Sheffield), park at the multistorey which costs £2 in the evenings, take Thameslink which costs about £6.45 at weekends when I use my old ladies' railcard and either walk to the Wells, House or Coliseum or use my bus pass for the last few hundred yards.

 

I also use the same route to get to work since my chambers and the Rolls Building are within a few hundred yards of a Thameslink station.  I can't always use my railcard if I need to  be somewhere by 10:00 and parking before 10:00 on a weekday costs £7.95 but it is still not a lot of money.

Edited by terpsichore
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