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British born dancers and the global ballet market


aileen

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Although it seems better to start 'proper' training younger in terms of gaining correct turnout and flexibility etc., how many 5 year olds can understand and remember how to control feet and legs - for some having the co-ordination to skip is a huge achievement, remembering a sequence of steps and learning musicality is just as important and it should be 'fun' as well You are also dependant on having good teachers and at such a young age a lot of parents take their children to local village halls etc., to the nearest class, the standard of teaching will vary hugely. I believe far too much emphasis is put on doing exams in the UK, children are pushed on to the next grade and are taking major grades which were originally designed for much older students so there could be an element of maturity in their work - not just a process of 'learning the grade'. But when teachers offer nothing but syllabus classes there is nothing more for these children to do than keep moving on up the grades. Surely a litle more variety and free classes would make things more enjoyable for those who are there purely as a hobby too.

 

 

I agree with this.

 

I don't think that turnout should be emphasized at such early ages. The bones are still relatively soft and still cartilege in many places and there is a greater possibility for damage. The very young child should be introduced to movement with music and movement within a group - there is more than enough to keep them busy.

 

And I certainly agree with the over emphasis on exams and syllabus. Class should always be different every time. Not drastically different - but different. (instead of tendus starting to the front - start them to the side) It takes extra work for the teacher to do this but I feel it is essential - from the very beginning.

 

Dance should never be done by rote.

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I think a mixture of syllabus and free work is the best mix. A syllabus allows children to perfect movements without being distracted by thinking about what comes next. Also Children working towards an exam will always put in extra effort which is good for them. It also gives parents an idea of how well their child is doing and indeed how good a school it is. By going to a qualified teacher that uses a syllabus you are sure that the teacher has appropriate training. Ex professional dancers aren't always good at breaking steps down unless they have undergone teacher training. A syllabus ensures the steps taught are wide ranging and age and developmentally appropriate.

 

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Well, I do differ....

 

The training is about both - perffecting movement while thinking about what comes next. That's the entire point, as i see it. Exams give a parent an idea of how the child is doing within the syllabus - nothing else. And it only says how well the school does in teaching a specific syllabus. A teacher with a certificate given by a specific syllabus only speaks to that particular syllabus - not to how well he or she teaches dance. The assurance is only syllabus specific. And even then, in my experience, it is not in any way complete. There are syllabus teachers who have not ventured beyond that book or introduced new music -even symphonic music.

 

As for ex-professional dancers teaching class - some are wonderful and some are not. But a good teacher is not necessarily a famous ex-professional dancer - some excellent ones have spent their entire lives teaching.

 

Passing an exam only says that the student has learned to execute a specific sequence of steps - almost no matter how long it took to learn it. It says nothing about the ability of the student to incorporate new movement, to listen to and move to new music on a daily basis. All of which can be presented both age and developmentally appropriate. That's what a good teacher does. Daily.

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My dd started her ballet training at 4 years of age. At that age it was all about fun and just listening and moving to the music. It was also about following instructions. Yes she did the good toes and naughty toes bit. I think that more formal and by that I dont mean going to vacational school should happen when the child reaches around the age of 8 years of age. Thats when I think the child understands if they enjoy ballet and want to carry it further or become better at it. I do think that far too much emphasis is placed on exams in this country, been there and done that with my dd reaching Advanced 1 with distinction. However if I had my time again I wouldnt do the rigid exam path. A certain grade does not make you into a dancer. I also think that a lot can be learned by having a look at the way children are trained in other countries and then taking bits of that into our own schools. I do find it a bit odd that some schools will train children and then obviously think that the student is not good enough for their company. Is this down to the training or is it the student. I wonder if the schools ever question why so few of their students are not good enough at the end of their training at their school for the feeder company.

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I do find it a bit odd that some schools will train children and then obviously think that the student is not good enough for their company. Is this down to the training or is it the student. I wonder if the schools ever question why so few of their students are not good enough at the end of their training at their school for the feeder company.

 

It's a very good question. If you look at the principal dancers, soloists and the corps de ballet in the French Opéra, a huge majority comes directly from the Opera School. And I think the principal dancers are all French!

In other companies in France, the globalization problem is similar to the one in the UK...

Edited by afab
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I rather wonder about the implied link made between some schools and 'their' companies, and the need for the schools to question what they are doing. Surely, for all practical purposes, the schools operate as independent businesses? No doubt they can gain a certain cachet by having a name associated with a major company, but do any of them make a claim that more than a small handful of graduates will ever go on to a contract with that company? On the contrary, it seems to me that they exist to feed a global market, and that the degree of global competition for places at them suggests that they are seen by many as adequately fulfilling that purpose. (Indeed, one might argue that it is this fact, or perception, that underlies the premise for this very active thread!) I do not doubt that in starting her own small school back in the early 30s, Ninette De Valois' main purpose was to provide a supply of dancers to her emerging company - indeed, I believe that both shared the rehearsal facilities at Sadler's Wells. However, by the 1950s, as it became the Royal Ballet School, that link had become much more diffuse, with only a very small number of graduates going to the Royal Ballet - a situation much as it is today.

 

And looking from the companies' end, with the number of graduates emerging from UK schools, there cannot reasonably be any expectation that they will offer more than a very few places each year, if standards are to be maintained in their corps de ballet. And this will be equally true for the Bolshoi, Vaganova, and Paris Opera Ballet schools as well, I imagine. There are simply too many youngsters training for the number of jobs available in dance companies, the theatre, orchestras. It's not what keen youngsters want to hear, I'm sure, but Noel Coward's advice to Mrs Worthington still has much to commend it, I fear:

 

"Don’t put your daughter on the stage, Mrs. Worthington. Don’t put your daughter on the stage. The profession is overcrowded, the struggle’s pretty tough, and admitting the fact she’s burning to act, that isn’t quite enough..."

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Exactly Anjuli, the training is about BOTH so surely a mix of syllabus and free work is the best mix, that way they are covering all bases. I'm not saying exams show the parents the full picture, they just give an indication of how they are doing, yes maybe it is only a small indication but with purely free classes they don't even get that. At least if a teacher is qualified the parent knows that the teacher knows what they're doing, or there's a much better chance of it anyway!

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Exactly Anjuli, the training is about BOTH so surely a mix of syllabus and free work is the best mix, that way they are covering all bases. I'm not saying exams show the parents the full picture, they just give an indication of how they are doing, yes maybe it is only a small indication but with purely free classes they don't even get that. At least if a teacher is qualified the parent knows that the teacher knows what they're doing, or there's a much better chance of it anyway!

 

Aurora: I'm afraid you missunderstood me or more likely I wasn't clear. By "both" I meant (A.) perfecting movement and (B.) thinking about what comes next. NOT "both" meaning syllabus and freework.

 

My word "both" did not include syllabus work. Learning to perfect movement while thinking about what comes next does cover all bases. It's what the student and/or dancer faces from the first audition onward. A teacher who is considered as "qualified" by a syllabus is only qualified for that syllabus.

 

 

As for the parents getting some indication of how the student is doing by way of exams is learning only that - how a student is doing for that exam. Not how the student compares to dance students in general.

 

 

A huge part of learning how to dance is learning how to learn. How to quickly incorporate movement. How to "see" and how to "hear." And doing the same sequences over and over defeats that learning process, in my opinion.

 

 

In the USA very few schools are syllabus based and yet we have no problem producing dancers of excellent quality - far more than we can employ unfortunately.

Edited by Anjuli_Bai
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My DS is one of only 2 from his school year who trained from 11 to graduation who are now working in the UK as professional ballet dancers. Several are working abroad, mainly in europe and there are also some who are now dancing in disciplines other than ballet. A few got ballet jobs abroad but decided they did nt want to carry on as despite being able to live the dream the reality fell short of what had been imagined. Some decided not to dance as a career whilst still at school.

 

The Dancers who are working in the profession have to develop a certain resiliance and independence as often much of the year is spent touring and they have to be prepared and able to live out of a suitcase moving from city to city and organising their own travel and accommodation. It is also hard to make and keep friends outside the company when you have such an itinerant life style. Having said that my DS would never swap what he has for a "normal" life and embraces his life style. Sometimes students in training feel that when they "make it" it will be all applause and glory. Its exceedingly hard and the arts cuts make the life of a dancer in the UK more precarious as contracts get fewer and fewer and less likely to be long term.

Edited by assemble mum
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No I didn't misunderstand you Anjuli, I just disagree with you.

A qualified teacher at least gives a guarantee that the teaching is going to be of at least a reasonable standard.

Exams give parent SOME idea of how their child is doing even if only for a specific set of exercises, which is better than having no idea at all.

I maintain that the best training comes from a mix of syllabus and free work for all the reasons I gave above.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is of course more than one way to skin a cat!!

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Assemble mum, congratulations to your son! I'd love to know who he is but I don't expect you to tell me! You give a real insight into the life of a professional ballet dancer. The expression "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. Do you think that British dancers are a bit reluctant to work abroad (in non English speaking countries) because of the famous British resistance to learning foreign languages?! I ask this because I recently read about a dancer who had worked abroad but had given up dancing and was now back in the UK working in a bar having found the language barrier and the isolation impossible to overcome. I wonder whether the schools really prepare their students for the reality of life after graduation and, in particular, for the likelihood that they will not be taken on by the company to which the school is affiliated (if any) and the possibility that they will have to go abroad to find work.

 

Afab, it's interesting to hear what you say about the make-up of POB. I'm sure that that must be the result of some kind of policy or preference rather than just coincidence. I think that it is at least partly down to the funding arrangements at the Opera School ie you have to be a French national to be funded or possibly even admitted to the School.

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I rather wonder about the implied link made between some schools and 'their' companies, and the need for the schools to question what they are doing. Surely, for all practical purposes, the schools operate as independent businesses? No doubt they can gain a certain cachet by having a name associated with a major company, but do any of them make a claim that more than a small handful of graduates will ever go on to a contract with that company? On the contrary, it seems to me that they exist to feed a global market, and that the degree of global competition for places at them suggests that they are seen by many as adequately fulfilling that purpose. (Indeed, one might argue that it is this fact, or perception, that underlies the premise for this very active thread!) I do not doubt that in starting her own small school back in the early 30s, Ninette De Valois' main purpose was to provide a supply of dancers to her emerging company - indeed, I believe that both shared the rehearsal facilities at Sadler's Wells. However, by the 1950s, as it became the Royal Ballet School, that link had become much more diffuse, with only a very small number of graduates going to the Royal Ballet - a situation much as it is today.

 

And looking from the companies' end, with the number of graduates emerging from UK schools, there cannot reasonably be any expectation that they will offer more than a very few places each year, if standards are to be maintained in their corps de ballet. And this will be equally true for the Bolshoi, Vaganova, and Paris Opera Ballet schools as well, I imagine. There are simply too many youngsters training for the number of jobs available in dance companies, the theatre, orchestras. It's not what keen youngsters want to hear, I'm sure, but Noel Coward's advice to Mrs Worthington still has much to commend it, I fear:

 

"Don’t put your daughter on the stage, Mrs. Worthington. Don’t put your daughter on the stage. The profession is overcrowded, the struggle’s pretty tough, and admitting the fact she’s burning to act, that isn’t quite enough..."

 

Wonder no more Ian, I am not implying anything, just making an observation. However I am more than happy to stand corrected, but I am still concerned as are many dancers that there does not seem to be many British dancers making it into the higher ranks of the ballet world compared to other nationalities. Now I dont think it is being offensive in asking where are we going wrong in this country, is it with the dancers or with the training establishments or actually maybe it is none of these things.

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Ian, I see what you're saying, and I think those of us with children, or friends' children at Vocational School in the UK know that none of our schools are a guaranteed feeder system into the company they have links to.

 

However, when I read Dancing Times and see an advert for The Royal Ballet school with the rather bold statement "The School for the Royal Ballet and Birmingham Royal Ballet" emblazoned underneath, people can be forgiven for thinking that there is a strong chance that if you train at RBS from 11, progress to Upper School, and graduate, you could be taken straight into RB or BRB - at least more than 1 or 2 graduates, anyway.

 

Now we all know that this is not the case, for a variety of reasons (not least because our companies rarely have more than a couple of contracts to give), but for a novice ballet parent reading that advert, it is a somewhat misleading statement.

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Spanner: I entirely accept your point about those ads. In fact, I remembered them not too long after my last post - and you're right to mention them. By virtue of the Royal Charter and a common governing body, they lay claim to the cachet factor I mentioned and it could not be surprising if people are misled as a result.

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I was conversing with someone the other day and mentioned that my DS was currently at WL. Her response was, "Oh wow, that is amazing! So, does he now get a guaranteed place at the Royal Ballet when he leaves?' Words failed me... but only temporarily before I explained the appraisal procedure and the statistics of those that move through the school into the US and then into the company... :P

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I think sometimes too when talking about schools like Paris Opera or the big Russian schools, we mustn't forget that as well as hand-picking youngsters for their perfect physiques, etc, and perhaps the better training they receive, they also cull them drastically from year to year. Those that actually graduate are only a tiny fraction of those who started in the schools in the first place. Of the Paris Opera pupils, again, only a tiny number actually make it iinto the company. The Russians that graduate with the big Russian schools are likely to get jobs, though not necessarily with the big companies, and most will spend their dancing lives unknown, working in the corps. The "superstar" dancers we've all heard of are superstars because they are just so rare!

 

I know I've mentioned this before, but companies need people who will pay to watch ballet. Then our dancing children stand a better chance of getting a job, any job, with a contract lasting more than 12 weeks! Perhaps then even new companies could start up and thrive. I've sometimes thought it's a bit like the thousands of youngsters wanting to be journalists and envision themselves with a column in a national newspaper. But when you ask them if they ever buy a newspaper...

Edited by rowan
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Amum/Cathy, it's interesting to hear Deborah Bull's opinion. How did she manage to put in the 10,000 hours of practice?

 

Right I bought Deborah Bull's book The Everyday Dancer for my kindle last night. Takes about 2 hours to read. She doesn't talk about the 10,000 hours in it, but she does mention having overseas dancers in the corps de ballet as a new problem for ballet companies, where they used to have their own schooled dancers. Essentially she implies that her era of RBS trained dancers learnt the dances (and solos) for the classical ballets while at the Upper School and were pulled into the company for performaces through their graduate year, which meant they were well known and could be offered places in the company thereafter.

 

This also meant they didn't have much new choreography to learn for the company classics so they could be called on to cover alot of roles at short notice. However with the intake of overseas dancers there is more need to rehearse the corps de ballet as they may have learnt completely different choreography overseas ( I am always amazed how different a Russian company's version of the classics can be from a British one's so I can see what she means).

 

She mentions the European Union and ease of travel as a factor in the higher numbers of imported dancers. She doesn't really cover the ground she talked about in her radio series about overseas training differences and ages etc, except briefly in passing. The book really is about the structure of a classical dancer's day - class, rehearsal and performing.

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I think that the description of RBS as "The School for The Royal Ballet and Birmingham Royal Ballet" strongly implies that the School feeds into those two companies. Where does that leave Elmhurst? IMO, if RBS does not "feed" into those companies then it should have another name, and the same applies to ENBS and possibly Northern Ballet School (I don't know anything about that school; maybe a lot of their graduates get into Northern Ballet). The reality is that most if not all of these school are really international schools which happen to be based in the UK. There seems to be little sense of them have a mission to supply the UK companies with the next generation of dancers. I appreciate that some British born graduates go abroad to dance but I rather suspect that in most cases this is out of necessity rather than choice and very often on short term contracts. It would be good to hear from assemble mum on this.

 

I agree with rowan about children going to see live ballet. I'm often surprised at how uninterested in this the mothers at my daughter's ballet school are. Both ENB and BRB offer extremely good deals in London. You can sit in the front row of the balcony at the Coliseum for £10. BRB offer very generous family packages as well. When you think how easy it is to fritter money away on nothing very much ballet, even in London, can be a real bargain. The cinema costs almost as much. For some reason there seems to be a real disconnect between doing and watching ballet.

 

 

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Just to point out that Northern Ballet School is completely unconnected to Northern Ballet (Company) and makes no claims of being a feeder school for the company. Its an accident of history and location that the two have ended up with similar names.

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Glowlight, it's unfortunate IMO that the company and the school have the same name. I'm sure that most people would assume that there's at least some connection between the two but from what you say there's even less of a connection between them than there is between RBS and RB. Where do their graduates go?

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Glowlight, it's unfortunate IMO that the company and the school have the same name. I'm sure that most people would assume that there's at least some connection between the two but from what you say there's even less of a connection between them than there is between RBS and RB. Where do their graduates go?

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I agree that it is confusing. My understanding is that both grew up separately and have each used their name for many years. When Northern Ballet (Company) was called Northern Ballet Theatre I think the situation was less confusing.

 

As to where Northern Ballet School graduates go - They have had graduates go into Northern Ballet and BRB, but more often they will go into smaller companies overseas. Northern Ballet School has a very strong jazz programme which runs alongside the ballet strand, and the classical students also benefit from this jazz training which results in many of them, like my dd, switching tack and getting jazz or musical theatre jobs. They have a very high graduate employment rate, but I would say that the majority of this is not in classical ballet.

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RBS school for example manages to get 100% employment for its graduates but these jobs are rarely permanent. Most companies give temporary contracts for up to a year so even getting into the big two ie RB and RBS doesnt mean the dancer is there for ever as they have a kind of probationary year. If you look at a list of RBS graduates a year later a huge majority will be somewhere else...... not just the UK students, but the overseas students will have moved about too, as often european companies take students from schools as apprentices and then only keep one or two when the apprenticeship ends after one year. They then take another batch.

 

Northern ballet school as far as I know is in Manchester and Northern Ballet is based in Leeds. Northern Ballet have their own academy which trains youngsters but this does not specifically feed into the company. They use youngsters from the academy when they are in leeds and need children ie for nutcracker. Their home grown dancers come from RBS, ENBS ,Central and Elmhurst and they also take a fair few foreign dancers. There was historically a link with central so several of the older dancers went there but in more recent years the net has been cast wider and dancers come from all over. As far as I know if you are what they are looking for they take you. If they dont find what they want ,they dont just take because you went to school A or school B but wait to see who they see next. This goes for most companies these days I should think because the size of many companies is shrinking because of funding cuts, not just in Britain, as I know dutch National suffered heavy funding cuts last year.

Edited by assemble mum
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Also the connection is perhaps more to do with day-to-day stuff than where the graduates go (as we've already touched on, there just aren't enough contracts to go round even if the students were all amazing!). For instance, the links between Elmhurst and BRB have gone from strength to strength over the last few years, with BRB dancers regularly coming into the school to teach or take masterclasses, and the students are "used" in BRB productions. I believe the same happens with RBS and RB (I have to admit I've been slightly "miffed" in the past that BRB use RB students, whereas it doesn't happen the other way round).

 

The Elmhurst upper school students also get to take class occasionally with BRB (maybe only the graduate year).

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Well not sure if this is a one-off or a sign of changing times but I heard on the grapevine (can't vouch for the info and it may be wrong ;) ) that most of year 11 at RBS have been offered a place at upper school this year so not much room left for overseas students. Although some of those will already be from elsewhere presumably.

Edited by Ribbons
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This is certainly a very interesting thread, which I have followed very closely, but the more I read the more it's making me a bit depressed about dd's future prospects. We all know that the ballet world is a very tough and competitive one and I for one try not to dwell on that too much now that we have taken the plunge into vocational school. Having said that, there are many careers that are over subscribed, tough and competitive. I think for my own sanity I'm not going to think too much about the future at the moment, but try to enjoy the journey she is on and celebrate her achievements along the way.

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Well not sure if this is a one-off or a sign of changing times but I heard on the grapevine (can't vouch for the info and it may be wrong ;) ) that most of year 11 at RBS have been offered a place at upper school this year so not much room left for overseas students. Although some of those will already be from elsewhere presumably.

 

Well I had heard that at least 9 girls had been taken on into their Upper School!

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