Young ballet dancer forced out for making porn videos...

[Mayerling79]

http://www.gramilano.com/2013/07/ballet-dancer-forced-out-for-making-gay-porn-videos/

 

Just came across this article..

To me, the decision of the ballet to fire the 22 year old dancer is way to extreme. The young dancer was using a fake name for his videos to start with, so he never intended to affect the image of the RWB.

If indeed the management of the RWB felt that his activity was not compatible with his duties as a dancer of the RWB, he could have been given some sort of counselling or something. For a young dancer of 22 years, the extreme hours of training and strictness of a dancer's life are something that not everyone can be easily moulded into. Dancers are human beings with their own sexuality (enhanced sometimes by so much training) and their own psychological imbalances and neurosis. A ballet or school management should embrace its dancers's developments and support them in any way it can throughout the years of formation and maturing. It is not only about teaching how to dance.

 

This comes across to me as very hypocritical. We well know that dancers (to name one, the superb Nureyev) can be extremely needy sexually and constantly working on ones body definitely opens doors (at least mentally) to self exploration of sensuality in many forms...

I do not mean by this that dancers would/should necessarily all act on their fantasies (everyone deals with things differently), but in the case of this young dancer, this was most probably just a phase through which he was trying to balance out a frustration and exploring something new.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Mayerling79

[Jan McNulty]

I've looked at the article.  His actions seem to have been in clear breach of the rule quoted so the school would not have had a choice.

[Actsingdance]

I've been arguing about this on another forum with done US people who have a bee in their bonnet about do called human rights.

 

When you go to vocational school/ training you agree not to take part in any outside performances not authorised by the school.

 

The rules are clear - he broke them.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Judging by the photo of him,he`s gorgeous with a great body. You can`t blame him for wanting to make the most of his "assets". Provided his other job wasn`t interfering with his RWB School work, then what he gets up to in his own private time is none of anyone else`s damn business. Would they have sacked him if he was showing an exhibition of sculptures he had done,or had a talent for drawing and held showings of his work? I doubt it. I say good luck to him. He`ll earn a lot more money making porn than he ever would in a ballet company anyway. 

[Mayerling79]

Ok maybe you are right then... about performing outside the RWB (and probably getting paid for it) without seeking permission...

However, if dancing ballet is truly what he wants to do with his life, I do hope he gets given a second chance elsewhere once he has resolved his exhibitionism needs There are other non performance-based ways to explore whatever he is looking to explore, I would imagine...

[Actsingdance]

It is up to them what he does in his private time though. He is at a school, when you sign up to waive your rights to certain things. For example my dd will have to give up her musical theatre performances.

[audsjcanuck]

Part of the confusion lies in the fact that it was the school NOT the company. This is a school with students from 10 years old and up. So it is the school's business. There are rules plain and simple.

Edited July 14, 2013 by audsjcanuck

[Lisat]

Is it just me or is 22 quite old to be still in a school?

[Actsingdance]

Not really. The school dd is going to on their diploma course sone enter at 16, some at 18 or 19 for a 3 year course.

[Julie 2 Milner]

Recently in Vienna a principal was fired for nude photographs. However she was reinstated after a fight.

[alison]

Let's bring this a bit nearer to home.  Say that Bill Bloggs joins the Royal Ballet, and gets noticed fairly early on for the quality of his dancing.  At the same time, he is doing a sideline in gay porn videos (boy, I never thought I'd be writing those words on Balletco!).  It's probably not inconceivable that there might be a few people who take an interest in both.  If any of them should happen on this video and go "Hey, look, it's Bill Bloggs!", then he's busted, even if he's been appearing under the name Zac Zanders - it's still recognisably the same person.  And if a newspaper stringer or somebody were to find out, the papers would be full of "Royal ballet dancer in gay porn shock!"-type headlines, and the company's name would be brought into disrepute, even if BB had never intended such a thing.  Attitudes to a lot of things may have changed in the last 30-odd years, but I think this would still cause ructions even today.

[Guest Autumn days]

I believe that children read this forum and am not comfortable with some of the language used in this thread, especially that in the original post.

 

Mods, what is your view on this?

[Lisat]

There have been graffic nude photos of many other male dancers online for years. Nureyev and Legris to just name a few. I do believe that the reason Vienna reinstated the female dancer they terminated for nude photos was because she easily proved that Legris also had done the same. There are many dancers who pose nude eg stastsoper Berlin but that is completely different from a homosexually based phonographic video.

[Lisat]

Whoops. Pornographic... Not phonographic.

[Jan McNulty]

Thanks for the reminder, Mum in a spin, that children read the forum and that we should be careful about phraseology.

 

Lisat - I think the point is that this young man was excluded from school - not from a company - a very different kettle of fish.

[chrischris]

Ha ha this is hilarious. Personally I don't see what the big deal is, but I can understand a situation like Alison describes creating a bit of a stink, perhaps more so among older people. It seems like he was asked to leave for breaking the school rules though. It does raise an interesting point about how much freedom people should have outside their place of work. Wasn't there a ballerina a few years ago who supported the BNP or EDL? And it seems every week there is a story of someone being reprimanded for saying or doing something stupid on FB or Twitter.

[Jan McNulty]

Chrischris - not a company a school!

[chrischris]

Chrischris - not a company a school!

 

Yeah I know. I said school in my original post?

[Jan McNulty]

I felt you were mixing your contexts.  A student at a school was the subject of the original article.  I think this is very different to paid employment although in terms of paid employment, many companies have conditions in their terms of empolyment these days re not behaving in a way that could bring the company into disrepute.

 

One thing I do not like about this is the emphasis on orientation.  Surely that is the least of the issues.

[Anna C]

Exactly. I couldn't care less what sort of films he was making. The basic fact is that he was at school and broke school rules. One would hope that they were fair and gave him a warning before asking him to leave. However, performing is performing, whether on stage or screen, and by making films he broke the school rules. Simple as that.

[Julie 2 Milner]

If he broke the rules he broke the rules but surely a warning first. I think it is interesting though to consider what a "normal" school would do in the same circumstance. I suspect a similar response.

 

I too find the comment that the problem is it was homosexual porn extraordinary and to be honest awful. Homophobic. I hope that wasn't what prompted the school.

 

Re companies  yes this was about school but I find it interesting the restrictions companies place on their dancers too. Vienna a case in point as I believe the photo shoot was tastefully and professionally done. One problem there may have been use of company premise.

 

So I would have hoped the school would have give a warning but maybe they did. I guess we cannot know the whole story from just one report.

 

Finally I don't find the opening post to contain anything problematic but yes we should remember this does have a wide ranging audience.

[Actsingdance]

I think that if a student at the school dd should have gone to if she wasn't going to vocational made any kind of porn film gay or straight they would be suspended / excluded.

[Actsingdance]

And I don't think there us anything untoward in the OP. I think the minimum age for signing up to forums is 13. Below that its up to parents to monitor/restrict access

[aileen]

This raises an interesting question about the extent to which an educational establishment should be entitled to restrict what their students do away from their place of study. In this case, the person was an adult and I assume that he was not doing anything illegal and was not missing classes, rehearsals etc but making the films in his spare time but he was in breach of a clause prohibiting him from 'performing' (if making a porn film is performing) without the permission of the school. I'm not sure that an academic school would or would be able to expel a student for this. I think that it would be regarded as a pastoral or child protection matter. If this happened at a university or FE college would the student be expelled? It might be difficult unless this was covered in some way by the terms and conditions in the contract governing the course.

[capybara]

Does anyone remember the time (at least 25 years ago!) when Jonny Cope and Rachel Whitbread posed in what seemed to be the nude for either a magazine or an advertisement? There was a bit of fuss at the time, I recall, and rumour had it that both had been 'spoken to' by the RB management.

[PetitDi]

New girl here... 

 

I went back to Gramilano's article and from the quote from the school rule book I think it's quite obvious that they mean 'dancing' when they say 'performing', which is a normal school practice. A music student friend at London's Guildhall got into trouble because he was busking, but if he had been stocking supermarket shelves I don't think there would have been a problem. Same here, if he had been doing a more usual out-of-school job nobody would have commented, it's the pornography that gave the school directors problems. But, as noted earlier, a warning would surely having been the right thing to do.

[MAB]

There is always that phrase 'Bringing into disrepute' to contend with and most companies would be uneasy at the very least if one of their dancers embarked on a parallel career in pornography.  Nude photos are different from actual 'performance' in the genre and although many consider them distasteful I don't think they can be considered as sordid as pornography undoubtedly is.

 

 

 

I can think of one other dancer I know was involved in this sort of thing, though of the hetero variety, and he seems to have been off loaded by the company he danced with though I don't know if that was specifically due to his 'moonlighting job'.  He was an  exceptionally talented dancer by the way.

 

Ediited because originally last sentance was ambiguous.

 

Edited July 15, 2013 by MAB

[aileen]

MAB, this story concerns a (vocational) school rather than a company. I'm surprised that the busking student got into trouble. Many, if not most, students have to work to support themselves and I can't see why busking is objectionable but working in a supermarket is not. At some schools all outside employment may be prohibited on the basis that the students should be devoting their full time and attention to their training. Clauses to that effect are found in some contracts of employment. 'Not bringing into disrepute' type clauses are common in contracts of employment where the image of employer is important but I don't know how common it is for such clauses to be included in (student) contracts for vocational schools.

[Lisat]

Thank you Janet. Yes it was RWBS not the company. I was responding to another post regarding Vienna and stating that I feel there is a difference between nude photos and pornographic films. The dancer was not in the top level of the school and at his age I suspect the school brought him in to partner. I did not see any statement from him regarding finances or parental support. I am assuming he was paid for his participation in the film. As a visa student working may be difficult. It is hard to envision a 22 year old on scholarship being able to live without any allowance. I agree the school had to let him go, but why was he there in the first place? There are too many youngsters in the school for RWBS and many better suited schools which cater to a vocational student of that age.

[PetitDi]

I think the Guildhall problem was that the student (now international opera singer!) was singing in the streets, before Christmas, therefore he risked damaging his vocal chords and interfering with the technique he was learning. The same reason ballet schools don't want their students studying with other teachers, or 'performing' without prior permission so that they can value whether the extracurricular activity could interfere with their teaching.

[alison]

But, as noted earlier, a warning would surely having been the right thing to do.

 

Welcome to the forum, PetitDi.  I think it's difficult to say what would have been "right", based on one person's reporting of a situation.  This story broke several days before the date of Gramilano's report, and the other reports I'd skimmed concentrated on noticeably different factors.

 

'Not bringing into disrepute' type clauses are common in contracts of employment where the image of employer is important but I don't know how common it is for such clauses to be included in (student) contracts for vocational schools.

 

Nor do I, but in an adaptation of my scenario above, replacing "dancer" with "School student" would bring the institution into no less disrepute (and I'm afraid the lower reaches of the tabloids would definitely see gay porn as being additionally salacious).

[chrischris]

I felt you were mixing your contexts.  A student at a school was the subject of the original article.  I think this is very different to paid employment although in terms of paid employment, many companies have conditions in their terms of empolyment these days re not behaving in a way that could bring the company into disrepute.

 

One thing I do not like about this is the emphasis on orientation.  Surely that is the least of the issues.

 

I get you. That's true. Although I think 'school', in the sense that it is commonly used, isn't really accurate for a place teaching people as old as 22. It's more a uni, and I think uni's often have similar problems to employers.

[toursenlair]

I get you. That's true. Although I think 'school', in the sense that it is commonly used, isn't really accurate for a place teaching people as old as 22. It's more a uni, and I think uni's often have similar problems to employers.

 

I can assure you the Royal Winnipeg Ballet School is not a university or anything like one. Like the National Ballet School in Toronto it takes in some students who are past the age for graduating academically from high school. It may be that they need to work on strength issues or improve their technique or whatever before they start the audition rounds.  But the rules of the school apply to everyone, from the young children upwards. Saying that this guy was a dancer with the RWB is a bit of an exaggeration. Like many companies, the RWB drafts in some students when they need extra bodies for bigger productions (the RWB itself has only about 25 dancers).