Central graduation year auditions

[Tulip]

Good luck to all second year central student who are auditioning to get into their final graduation year today. I feel so nervous for them knowing that this time next year my daughter will be in the same situation, how time flies.

[Lottie]

Thank you. Have been thinking about these auditions today as DS is there doing them.

 

DS doesn't know when or how he'll be told if his got into the 3rd year. Hopefully they will give more details today.

[Tulip]

Do they have a rough idea lottie if they are not going to get in or is it a clean sheet and no one knows? Good luck to your son.

[Lottie]

No one knows!

 

We'll we don't.

 

If & when I can remember how to PM you I will! Having a 'senior moment'.

[veryskint]

My DS auditioning today too! I don't think anyone knows, at least we don't either.

 

My DS texted to say the class was 'sick' which I believe is a good thing It was taken by a guest teacher. He said he did ok but has no indication of outcome.

[Tulip]

Gosh it's nerve wracking for you and them, good luck and I'm not looking forward to this time next year.

[Lottie]

veryskint - at least you've had a text!

 

I hope DS has his phone on this evening so can hear how it went. 

 

If not, then will have to wait until tomorrow when he arrives home for the week.

[pointe shoes]

Do most of the students normally get through?

[Lottie]

Do most of the students normally get through?

 

I've no idea.

 

Looking at Ballet Central 2013 Company details there seem to be 10 young men and 20 young ladies.

 

http://www.balletcentral.co.uk/thecompany.php

[JulieW]

Friend of ours said she had hers yesterday too and seems relieved it's over!

 

I've heard, over the last few years, that not many got 3rd year but I'm not sure on the actual figures. I certainly know plenty of students who repeat 2nd year.

[sophika9899]

So do they get to repeat 2nd year and try again or do some of them have to leave/get assessed out? Do people get assessed out of 6th form schools?

[Pas de Quatre]

We had a discussion about Central's third year auditions about this time last year.  I still find it troubling that only those dancers selected for the third year Ballet Central performing group will be able to complete their degree.  Surely there should be some way that the others could still complete the third year even if not in the performing group.

 

Anyone not selected ends up without a qualification and with debts of thousands of pounds in student loans.  Even if they have taken A-levels, they can only do a new degree course if they can pay for one year out their own money (or bank of mum & dad) as student loans are for four years maximum!

[Anna C]

I believe completing two years gives you a Foundation Degree; the full three years gives you a BA (Hons). Isn't Rambert the same?

 

I do disagree with the system of having to re-audition to complete the degree. Unless there is jolly good reason to assess someone out, I believe that all the dancers who have successfully completed two years should be offered 3rd year.

[Pas de Quatre]

I don't know of any other dance degree programme that doesn't allow you to complete your degree, no one else makes dancers audition for their third year.  So if a dancer is asked to leave after two years, with a Foundation Degree, what can they do next?

[Strawberyy]

I think it is common in vocational schools to have to audition for the third year. Certainly with ENBS not everyone gets the third year. At ENBS if you leave after 2 years you get a National Certificate and the National Diploma after 3 years. It is possible to study for an honours degree with the Diploma via distance learning, it is a 15 month course, so maybe the same is possible for Central students if they don't get the third year. 

[Pas de Quatre]

That programme for an honours degree is only available to those who have gained a contract with a dance company.  Other schools such as ENBS are not degree courses funded by student loans.

[pointe shoes]

Hope that the students don't have to wait too long to hear.

What a rotten half term.

[Pups_mum]

This is an interesting discussion. A little while ago there was a fair bit of talk on here about how Central was likely to become even more popular due to it's funding arrangements. As I understood it, changes to DADAs were making Central a more attractive option than many other schools because of access to student loans. I wonder if all the students/parents making their decisions are fully informed about the 3rd year situation and the potential impact on future funding if they want/have to do something different after 2 years. Maybe it's not as financially advantageous as it first appears? The whole funding issue seems to be a complex mess that is getting worse not better. I really feel for anyone trying to figure out what to do.

[Strawberyy]

That programme for an honours degree is only available to those who have gained a contract with a dance company.  Other schools such as ENBS are not degree courses funded by student loans.

No not true - you don't have to even be employed to do the extra study for the honours degree. And if you have been to schools such as ENBS or Elmhurst you can get a student loan.

[Pas de Quatre]

Precisely, if you have been to Elmhurst or ENBS you still have 4 years of student loans available to you.  

[allegro11]

I am not sure how things work at Central...but I know how it works in other professional ballet schools... decisions are not made on the day of evaluations or auditions....usually artistic staff talks with students/parents way before during the year if is any concern .....so every student know if will progress to next year or will repeat, way in advance .....passing to next level is how students progress through the year..not how they did on that day....

[JulieW]

My understanding of student loans for degrees (I work in a college so know a little) means that you'd be able to get a loan for the 3rd year "top up" after completing a foundation degree, so might be with looking at other colleges/unis who do a BA in dance or something similar and see if they'd take you into their 3rd year

[Tulip]

Student loan is only for two years because the first two years is classed as a foundation degree. For the third year the student loan has to be reapplied for to complete a final year BA honours degree. The students are fully aware that third year has to be auditioned for, as parents it is our duty to understand about student loans not the school. Our children have only been offered two years in their letters and then they have to audition for the touring company. My daughter is near the end of her first year at central and I have never known her to be so happy with her training and a school. It is such a relief as a parent to hear your child is happy and getting everything that they need regarding their training.

[Pas de Quatre]

Tulip - I wish your beautiful daughter all the best, and I am delighted she is happy at Central.  I am just trying to get my head round what I need to say to my next batch of students who will be auditioning for Senior schools/6th form places in the next couple of years.  Of course much depends on family circumstances and whether they would qualify for a DADa if offered, or need to rely on student loans.

 

However the fact remains that I don't feel comfortable encouraging pupils to apply for a course which will leave them with thousands of pounds worth of debts and possibly nowhere to go.  If anyone does know of any degree courses that would take students into their 3rd year who hadn't make it into Central's I would be very interested to hear. 

[drdance]

Graduates of central are actually really very rare in that that have a BA (hons) degree by the age of  as young as 19. Most 19 year olds will only have done the first year of a degree, or will have completed a foundation degree, which can then be 'topped up' at a different institution at a later date.

 

It appears confusing because the qualifications are named differently to those completed by the parents' generation. A foundation degree is a bit like the old HND (see more at http://www.ucas.ac.uk/students/choosingcourses/choosingcourse/foundationdegree)

[Tulip]

Pas de quatre I think you are such a caring passionate teacher and I wish there were more like you, however the research into schools must come from the older students and their parents. So long as a good dance teacher can tell their students what schools are available and funding ect and perhaps where students go after graduation then that teacher has done a great job. My daughter had a fantastic private teacher who was a professional ballet dancer, she gave us lots of advice and Lso her personal oppinion on schools, at the end of the day it was down to us to investigate what was out there and what we had to do. Actually come to think of it her teacher from the senior associates recommended a dance school to include in my daughters auditions, this dance school was one we wouldn't touch with a barge pole as not many go on to get good jobs as I found out. But again I wish that there were more caring teachers like you who could support student if their parent were unable to carry out important research.

[Pas de Quatre]

Thank you Tulip, that is so kind.  However I think I have to disagree with you in that as a relatively small local school I do feel responsible for helping pupils and their families make an informed choice.  They don't always know the questions they need to ask!

[aileen]

I think that the question of the amount and type of advice which a teacher should be expected to give is a difficult one. Some parents are able effectively to research and make enquiries about schools, funding etc but others are not. It would be a shame if the children of the latter were disadvantaged, perhaps because their parents discounted the possibility of vocational training without investigating it sufficiently or choose schools which were unsuitable. OTOH, it's dangerous for teachers to hold themselves out as real experts on vocational training, unless they really are up to date with what the schools are looking for and how the schools themselves are currently "performing" as well as all the possible (and likely!) funding options. There's also the thorny question of whether a teacher should raise the possibility of vocational training or wait until the parents express an interest in this. Just raising the possibility can give parents the idea that their child is going to be the next Darcey Bussell as parents are very keen to seize on the merest suggestion that their child has an extraordinary talent which sets him/her apart from his/her peers. This could cause a great deal of heartache and bitterness later on if the child does not get past an early hurdle of, say, an audition for an associate scheme. If I were a teacher I would probably put on my website general information on vocational training and possible sources of funding and list the schools (and their graduates' destinations for the previous year if this information was easily available and I had the time to add it) but make it absolutely clear that this was only a general overview, that the information might become out of date or inaccurate, that the schools' requirements and the funding options could change with little or no notice and that competition for places in schools was and would always remain extremely fierce with no guarantee of a job in a company at the end of it.

[pointe shoes]

As Central's course is unique in that it is a degree wouldn't that limit who could apply for year 3?

[Lottie]

DS says, about his 3rd Year Audition, that there were 11 young men from Central's 2nd year auditioning and the class was taken by an external dancer, Kenneth Tindall.

 

There were over 11 people on the panel watching which included the 1st, 2nd & 3rd year tutors and teachers and that he'll hear soon. 'There were more people watching than auditioning', were his words.

 

We're not worried if he has to repeat the 2nd year as it will show that he's not ready for the 3rd year. Things happen for a reason.

 

If he does go through to the 3rd year he will be one of those young one's with a degree at 19. There are several others of the same age as my DS in his year so it will be interesting how many go through to the 3rd year.

[Spax]

Tulip - I wish your beautiful daughter all the best, and I am delighted she is happy at Central. I am just trying to get my head round what I need to say to my next batch of students who will be auditioning for Senior schools/6th form places in the next couple of years. Of course much depends on family circumstances and whether they would qualify for a DADa if offered, or need to rely on student loans.

 

However the fact remains that I don't feel comfortable encouraging pupils to apply for a course which will leave them with thousands of pounds worth of debts and possibly nowhere to go. If anyone does know of any degree courses that would take students into their 3rd year who hadn't make it into Central's I would be very interested to hear.

[Spax]

Ballet West are doing BA Hons.

Its a 3 year course and you don't have to audition after your second year. I think that is unfair to the students at Central and worrying"( Good luck especially to HB!!

[veryskint]

Spax, you have mentioned in a couple of threads that Ballet West offer a BA Honours. However, my understanding is that they used to offer a degree course but it is now a two year HND course. I know they also offer a one year finishing course, but I did not think that resulted in a BA?

 

With reference to Central it is very clear when a young person starts the course that they have a place for two years and then audition for the third year. It is a little nerve wracking for both students and their parents but I would not describe it as worrying. Students come and go from all the ballet schools; it seems to be the nature of the business whether formally through asessment and audition or informally when a student and their parents make the decision to leave.