Why British ballet is dancing with death

[chrischris]

Going back to one of the original points made, the only star in ballet in the UK over the last few years has been Darcey, and there is no doubt she had a huge impact on the visability of ballet in this country and encouraged people in to the ROH to see her. I also imagine she encouraged a lot of younger people to follow her and take up ballet. Other than with people like her, ballet has a pretty low profile. Brind says more needs to be done to advertise Lauren. Do people agree with that? Personally, I think the RB do do quite a lot of advertising with Lauren and Ed, and there are lots of interviews with them and youtube clips etc (they don't seem to do so much with Rupert, which I find odd), but they are not cross over stars. Is there more the RB could be doing to market their stars more effectively? It's hard to judge whether there is really an audience any more for the kind of cross over stuff Darcey used to do, and i'm not sure Lauren should be marketed as the star to watch at the RB just because she's British, but maybe having British principals the country actually knows the names of would help encourage children to get involved in ballet, and spur on the young British dancers coming up the ranks.

[alison]

Maybe having *principals* of any nationality the country actually knows the name of would help, too.  That said, dancers are as entitled to their privacy as the next person, and I wouldn't want to see any of them living as "celebrities" if they didn't feel comfortable with it.  And, chrischris, I've seen a few articles focusing on all 3 British principals, plus individually, and along with other dancers, of course.  Whether they're in the sort of places that the average man in the street would see them, I don't know, though.  I've certainly seem some in newspaper magazines, which is more general circulation.

[alison]

By the way, I've intended to say at some point in this thread that when I first saw the title, wherever it originally was, I assumed it was an article on how the RB (and possibly ENB?) seemed to be focusing on rather morbid subject-matter, with Mayerling, Hansel & Gretel, the Ecstacy and Death programme and so on!  I wasn't expecting this at all.

[aileen]

If you want to become really well-known you need to appear on television, preferably in a series such as The X Factor, Strictly, The Apprentice. Despite what people on this forum think, I believe that Darcey was not that well-known to the general public, particularly among people under, say, 30 (a very important audience to target), before she joined Strictly. Quite a few dancers from all the companies have featured in newspapers and magazines but this does not have much of an impact on the general public.

[chrischris]

I'm late twenties and I always knew who Darcey was, but from Vicar of Dibley and things like Top Gear and French and Saunders.

 

Alison, I agree, you can't push people in to a role they are not comfortable with. With Rupert, I meant more the behind the scenes stuff on the ROH youtube page. I've seen a lot with Ed recently, and and other principals, but not so much with him (on a side note, I wish the ROH would do these featurettes on some of the lesser 'name' dancers and not always on the same ones, regardless of nationality).

 

I also think parts of this issue are cyclical. Looking at the RB in the late 90's, they had Bussell, Jonathan Cope, Deborah Bull, Sarah Wildor, Bruce Sansom and Adam Cooper at the top at one stage, which is a pretty impressive group. Barring injury, fatigue or lack of motivation, Ed probably has about 5 years left, Rupert and Lauren around 10. In that time you'd hope that maybe Melissa Hamilton and Claire Calvert would have moved up the ranks, and hopefully some younger ones coming through, so you could conceivably have around 5-6 really great British principals in a few years time.

[balletla]

There has been a real increase in interest in dance over the last few years, and a lot of focus on young people and schools, but all the funding has gone on expanding  community and contemporary dance with a bit of urban/hiphop thrown in. There has been no funding for classical ballet and therefore, interest wains. 

 

It's not just about creating stars at RB (although that would help), it is about making ballet accessible and engaging the next generation and that means funding something other than contemporary dance (and it is contemporary dance, not even contemporary ballet), taught very badly by PE teachers in my experience.

[Dance*is*life]

The fees for the top schools are so high for foreigners, that if as LinMM said above they see it as a way out of comparative poverty, how on earth do they afford the fees in the first place?   

[Anna C]

Scholarships? Sponsorship by wealthy philanthropists?

[Nina G.]

I'm late twenties and I always knew who Darcey was, but from Vicar of Dibley and things like Top Gear and French and Saunders.

 

Alison, I agree, you can't push people in to a role they are not comfortable with. With Rupert, I meant more the behind the scenes stuff on the ROH youtube page. I've seen a lot with Ed recently, and and other principals, but not so much with him (on a side note, I wish the ROH would do these featurettes on some of the lesser 'name' dancers and not always on the same ones, regardless of nationality).

 

I also think parts of this issue are cyclical. Looking at the RB in the late 90's, they had Bussell, Jonathan Cope, Deborah Bull, Sarah Wildor, Bruce Sansom and Adam Cooper at the top at one stage, which is a pretty impressive group. Barring injury, fatigue or lack of motivation, Ed probably has about 5 years left, Rupert and Lauren around 10. In that time you'd hope that maybe Melissa Hamilton and Claire Calvert would have moved up the ranks, and hopefully some younger ones coming through, so you could conceivably have around 5-6 really great British principals in a few years time.

I agree Chrischris and, just as I said in my post nr 26, there are a few great RBS trained dancers at the RB, not only Clare Calvert but also amongst the current crop of Corps dancers but it will take time for them to "climb up the ladder".  After all, they have to develop their Art and this cannot be rushed; there are dancers who were/are rushed and as a result are off for a long time. 

[LinMM]

Yes Dance is Life these young people enter more competitions and win scholarships or earn sponsorships. The dancer in question in my above post did well in America at the YAGP. Sometimes at these competitions representatives from the top ballet companies are there also looking for future talent etc. A lot of these kids from abroad certainly could not afford the fees!!! Just as ones in UK can't . In fact the only way some can continue to dance at all is if they get some money from these competitions.

 

I know competitions are not everything but they do seem to be full of Chinese Japonese and South Americans with a smattering from Europe and Australia. Very few UK students seem to go to these competitions. I don't fully understand the sponsorship role but if Companies can get Sponsors to pay for students might that not also sway their decision into who is admitted to senior schools etc obviously given the students have lots of talent......which they usually do!!!

 

This just about stays within this topic thread I realise that why are there not more UK dancers who have been trained in UK in the Royal

Ballet and other top companies and does this mean the Royal is in danger of losing its specific or former style.

[alison]

I also think parts of this issue are cyclical. Looking at the RB in the late 90's, they had Bussell, Jonathan Cope, Deborah Bull, Sarah Wildor, Bruce Sansom and Adam Cooper at the top at one stage, which is a pretty impressive group.

 

Even more when you add Stuart Cassidy, Billy Trevitt, and I have a feeling there's someone else I've missed out.  Part of the problem, historically, at least on the male side, was the early exit by a number of those principals: back during the closure period, when the company looked as though it might fold, quite a few of the men left to set up K-Ballet in Japan.  Add to that Adam Cooper's departure a while earlier, and Sarah Wildor's leaving at the beginning of Stretton's tenure - if only she could have held on for a year, but then hindsight is a great boon - and you have a noticeable depletion of the ranks.  I can't entirely complain, since it indirectly brought us Johan Kobborg, but it did have a knock-on effect.  The company was seriously short of male principal-level dancers, and those who were coming up through the company weren't yet in a position to take on those sort of roles, so the RB ended up using guests and/or importing a lot of dancers, who then arguably blocked the path of those up-and-comers.

[Wulff]

I think you missed out Michael Nunn, Alison. And also there's Belinda Hatley who I think would have made it to principal had she not been held back by injuries.

 

And while we are on to the subject of foreign dancers in the RB let us not forget that many have been Prix de Lausanne winners and have chosen the RBS rather than one of the several other schools offering places.

[GTL]

About eight years ago, I sat behind a family of four at a Royal Ballet Nutcracker at Covent Garden.   I suspect the two teenage sons were dancers, the four of them talked knowledgeably in Australian-sounding accents, but on seeing on their cast-sheet that their Sugar Plum Fairy was Belinda Hatley, they asked each other in disappointed tones, “Who's she?”.    I thought,“Just you wait and see!”.   They were on their feet cheering her at the curtain-call, so I'd say she had at least four Antipodean fans.

[Nina G.]

I have just been reading all the comments on this article & some interesting points were raised.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/may/15/royal-ballet-british-dancers

[Ian Macmillan]

This FT piece should have been on today's Links, and will certainly feature tomorrow.  Though not specific to ballet, there are some opinions towards the end that may have some bearing on this general debate:

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a048c1ae-b710-11e2-a249-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2TRtmODAi

[alison]

I think you missed out Michael Nunn, Alison. And also there's Belinda Hatley who I think would have made it to principal had she not been held back by injuries.

 

Deliberately, Wulff - I was restricting myself to principals, and as we know, sadly neither of them ever made it quite that far - something I'll always regret.

[Pas de Quatre]

Another thing which may also be playing a part in all this is the modern trend for "short-termism", i.e. instant results/gratification.  You see it in all walks of life, including politics and financial institutions.  Perhaps even RB finds it easier to import ready made dancers than to slowly nurture those coming up through the school.

[balletla]

Talking of Belinda Hatley, I have just been re-reading an interview she did for Ballet.co in 2008 and she was asked about the lack of British principals then. Her response was:

 

"What is ‘wrong’ with the British dancers? “Lack of self belief. It’s like everything else in Britain; we always think that others are better than we are at anything. It’s lack of confidence. It’s the Tim Henman syndrome, I really believe that".

 

Full article link here:

 

http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_08/nov08/interview_belinda_hatley.htm

[bangorballetboy]

Perhaps even RB finds it easier to import ready made dancers than to slowly nurture those coming up through the school.

Where can I find a ready made dancer?

[Anna C]

Where can I find a ready made dancer?

One who's trained abroad until 16 so that another school has had to guide a gawky teenager through a 5" growth spurt, with all the loss of balance, technique, confidence and even physique that entails. If schools would be less quick to assess out at the end of year 9, they may well find that a year later they have a beautiful dancer on their hands.

 

I have no personal axe to grind, by the way. :-) But I have watched my own teenager come through a similar growth spurt. Fortunately her Associate Teacher could see the potential and was patient. By the time they get to Upper School, girls in particular have come through this awkward phase and out the other side.

[aileen]

It must be very difficult for boys. They grow at such different ages and can go on growing for several years. Many are stlll growing in year 10 and the all important year 11. I imagine that those who grow late are at a disadvantage.

[LinMM]

I so agree with your comment spannerandpony about waiting sometimes....I saw a documentary on Elmhurst and a boy who showed promise had to leave because he had not grown enough that year and I thought if they had just waited another year he could have grown a lot taller.....not necessarily....but he might have and I thought deserved the benefit of the doubt after all the effort put in so far. So it seems we don't treat our own talents that well sometimes. The sort of thing that bothered me was if he had been a paying student and not on a grant/scholarship would he have been allowed to stay? So does money still talk so to speak....whether its parents or sponsors paying the fees.

[alison]

It must be very difficult for boys. They grow at such different ages and can go on growing for several years. Many are stlll growing in year 10 and the all important year 11. I imagine that those who grow late are at a disadvantage.

 

Yes, I meant to pick that up with reference to whoever was talking about 16 and 17-year-olds.  As you say, boys can grown late, and may not even have reached full physical maturity by the time they graduate.  I seem to remember someone referring to a (I think) Ballet Association - before my time - interview with Stuart Cassidy, who was hardly a weakling, saying that it was really good that he'd done a third year, or part of it, at the Upper School (I don't think it was standard practice back in those days) because of the extra physical maturing it allowed him to do.  Perhaps someone who was actually there at the time could confirm/correct?

[Jane S]

As I remember it, Cassidy said that at the end of his second year he'd been offered a choice between joining the company right away and staying at the school for another year - I think it was something like "and then you can join as 'somebody"' - the implication being that it wouldn't just be physical maturity he'd gained. (And he and they were right - I've never seen anybody, before or since, walk on to the Covent Garden stage with such an air of 'OK, you guys, move over - I have arrived' - but making it seem like total confidence rather than arrogance.)

[Dance*is*life]

When I was at RBS I consistantly came in the top three for the test class at the end of term. But when they took students from my class into the company, they didn't choose me. When I went to Barbara Fewster to query it, I was told that my head was too large and that was that. So I guess even talent and personality aren't enough - the physical proportions are important too. It's a cruel world and the Royal doesn't want flawed - they want perfect.

[restor]

5 subsidised ballet companies in UK - each if you are lucky with 3-5 dance job vacancies each year = lots of disappointed young would be dancers.

[Jan McNulty]

5 subsidised ballet companies in UK - each if you are lucky with 3-5 dance job vacancies each year = lots of disappointed young would be dancers.

 

But most young dancers must be aware of that, or become aware of that as they set out on their journey.  Surely it must be the same the world over and not just here.

[restor]

Indeed- so how sensible is it to fund so many students or the companies that don't provide jobs for them?

[Jan McNulty]

I think you are being a bit disingenuous here restor.

 

Graduates can apply for jobs all over the world and not just in this country.  Additionally there are other avenues for their skills such as MT, ships and other types of entertainment facilities, teaching, companies in this country other than the "big 5" etc etc etc.  Most of the dancers I have met have been articulate and self sufficient and, in my opinion, could be successful in any field they choose.  A good education is never a waste of time or money and I would have thought that young people who have shown they have the level of commitment that they most certainly do would be much sought after.

 

I didn't think that my oldest niece's choice of A levels (nothing to do with ballet or dance) was very wonderful if looking towards the future but a long chat with a friend who had spent her career in careers advice showed me that even the most unlikely of subjects can give people useful skills such as communication skills, analytical skills, IT literacy and many others that can be sought after in the workplace.

 

If you want to look at it at the lowest common denominator, everyone in this country has a funded education or there would be no schools - state, vocational, public or any other sort.

 

Why should children/young people not be able to aspire towards a goal even if in the future their lives take a different path.

 

There was a dancer at BRB who gave up ballet early in his working life and is now a doctor. I am sure the commitment that person showed at vocational school would have been an excellent introduction to the rigours of medical training.

[LinMM]

And who knows maybe if he's mad enough will take up dancing again in his sixties!! Agree very much with above.

[Bruce Wall]

I have a friend who went to SAB (after having graduated from North Carolina School of the Arts and dancing with Ballet El Paso and SF Ballet) before joining NYC Ballet and then Les Grandes Ballets Canadiens.  He stopped dancing at 30 and went on to Yale Law School where he finished on the Dean's List and articled with a Federal US judge before rapidly working his way up as a partner in a major international law firm.  He was then seconded by a major American State to oversee their environmental affairs and today is an executive in a major international corporation as well as lecturing in law at one of the major Ivy League universities  There is no question but that this individual is one of the most extraordinary people I have EVER met but also there can be little doubt but that the self-discipline he learned early on through his life in the ballet has shaped his entire professional career in varying aspects.  That this happened in the US does not of course mean that it can't happen elsewhere.  Certainly one remembers this was well before the phenomena of 'Billy Elliot' was itself established both here and abroad.  

Edited May 25, 2013 by Meunier

[Nina G.]

..and Li Cunxin!  Who made a successful career transition from ballet to finance in 1999. He is a senior manager at one of the largest stockbroking firms in Australia.

[Jan McNulty]

..and Li Cunxin!  Who made a successful career transition from ballet to finance in 1999. He is a senior manager at one of the largest stockbroking firms in Australia.

 

And who is now AD of Queensland Ballet - applying expertise as a dancer and businessman.