Why British ballet is dancing with death

[MAB]

Which documentary was that, MAB?

 

Ballet: Sweat & Tears.

[A frog]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/may/15/royal-ballet-british-dancers

 

The Guardian steps in, (predictably) disagreeing with Ms Brind.

[Anna C]

Ballet: Sweat & Tears.

Thank you...missed it. :-(

[Jan McNulty]

Interesting comment from Judith Mackrell:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/may/15/royal-ballet-british-dancers?CMP=twt_gu

 

"The Royal Ballet: just how 'British' do we want it to be?

It's hardly shocking that so few Royal Ballet dancers are homegrown nationals – dance in this country has long been enriched by foreign talent. We should celebrate it"

[Dance*is*life]

I hope it's OK to copy and post this from the comments on the above article. Please remove if it's not. I just thought that the writer (under the pseudonym of Green Knight) made a very valid point. If other top international companies hire mainly home-grown dancers, why can't the RB?

 

"Additionally, the British White Lodgers have to compete for their places with increasing numbers of students brought in from abroad, a process many find stressful and demoralising."

...

"Globalisation notwithstanding, the world's great classical dance companies – the Bolshoi Ballet, Mariinsky Ballet, Paris Opera Ballet, New York City Ballet and others – draw almost exclusively from their own schools and home-grown students and, in consequence, maintain an individuality of style and tradition which the Royal Ballet, for all the brilliance of its imported stars, has lost. Commercially speaking, you underestimate the appeal of local talent at your peril. Darcey Bussell was a wonderful dancer but British audiences loved her first and foremost because she was a home-girl, one of their own."

[Anna C]

I thought that was a good point. I agree with much of the Guardian's article, but at the same time nothing has changed (visibly, anyway) since Luke Jennings' article about the disconnect between WL, US, and the Company.

 

If you compare ballet to tennis, as much as Sampras, Federer, Borg and Rafa have and have had massive following in the UK, it's Murray's matches which stay on air on the BBC, forcing the news (and Eastenders) onto BBC2. Everybody loves to support a homegrown talent.

[Ian Macmillan]

Would it not be the case that if one accepts the 'disconnect between White Lodge, Upper School and the Royal Ballet' thesis, the reductio ad absurdum implication would be that the RBS need only have about 4 graduates in all each year?  I cannot think that there has been any real link between the output of one and the needs of the other since the earliest days of De Valois' school in the 1930s, and it had most certainly ceased to exist by the mid-1950s.  Or to invert the argument, is there anyone out there seriously proposing that the Company's ranks should be churned at a rate that would absorb 20 graduates a year, say?  There are so many desiderata in this area, too many of them diametrically opposed to most others.

 

And whilst manifest concern is evident here in the UK - we're on page 3 of comment again in 3 days, I see - whisper it softly, but others may see it all a bit differently.  The US online Arts Journal posted a link today to the Telegraph version of the Brind story under the headline: "Ageing English Ex-Ballerina Grouses About Royal Ballet 'Infiltrated' By Foreigners."

[alison]

If you compare ballet to tennis, as much as Sampras, Federer, Borg and Rafa have and have had massive following in the UK, it's Murray's matches which stay on air on the BBC, forcing the news (and Eastenders) onto BBC2. Everybody loves to support a homegrown talent.

 

I've grown increasingly fond of comparing ballet and tennis - they have a lot in common .  But it's not only Murray (or previously Henman) - not at Wimbledon, at least.  The BBC usually cover "overrunning" significant matches, or potential upsets, regardless of the player - although admittedly those are usually on BBC2 rather than shifted onto BBC1 or split between the two to the irritation of all.  And in terms of homegrown talent, you have to admit that Andy Murray is rather higher-profile than any British ballet dancer in the country.  I doubt that most people would care about dancers.

[LinMM]

I think with the tennis it is just so amazing to actually get a Brit who is genuinely up there with the best that its bound to cause a strong interest and following!! It's natural to support your own country I think. However if there's no Brit people seem happy to cheer on and get behind their favourite players from wherever they come. They just want to see some brilliant tennis being played. Nice if there were a few more Brits though!!

[Marieve]

Interesting comment from Judith Mackrell:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/may/15/royal-ballet-british-dancers?CMP=twt_gu

 

"The Royal Ballet: just how 'British' do we want it to be?

It's hardly shocking that so few Royal Ballet dancers are homegrown nationals – dance in this country has long been enriched by foreign talent. We should celebrate it"

 

I found this quote from the guardian article interesting:

"Brind herself was performing during the 80s, at a time when foreign artists were in a minority in the Royal: yet while she and her fellow principal Fiona Chadwick were rightly hailed as examples of new British talent, I remember the overall standard of dancing as relatively lacklustre."

 

I realise that this doesn't necessarily mean that if foreign dancers were still in the minority, the overall standard would still be lacklustre. Perhaps it was just coincidence. And may not have been every ballet goer's perception of the 1980s RB either!

 

But IF the standards WERE lower then, then it does sound as if the influx of foreign artists may possibly have raised the overall game? And perhaps that the RB dancers of the 80s could have been slightly complacent because there was less competition from outside?

 

And maybe if the RB did go back to having mainly British dancers, there might be a danger of the "lacklustre" period repeating itself for the same reasons as before. At least, that's what I think the article was getting at.

[Bluebird]

Thank you...missed it. :-(

Blood, Sweat and Tears is available on line.  Here's the link:

 

http://rt.com/shows/documentary/ballet-sweat-tears-mariinsky-628/

Edited May 15, 2013 by Bluebird

[Arky]

Ian Macmillan rightly points out that the Royal Ballet could not possibly absorb 20 graduates a year, but all least RBS could be turning out a higher proportion of British dancers who could join RB, other British companies, as well as foreign companies.

 

RBS should, in my opinion, continue to accept some dancers from other parts of the world but could accept a much higher proportion of British dancers into WL and the Upper School. I agree with Sadielou when she says, “If a child has survived five years training at WL then they should, barring injury or lack of desire be guaranteed a place in the Upper section of the school, if not the only people to blame are those who have taught and moulded them for the past five years”.

 

Sadielou also comments "It just can't be that we as a country are so much less talented than our foreign counterparts can it ?"

 

Given that France and the UK have very similar populations, and knowing that the Paris Opera Ballet School takes a very high proportion of French students and that the POB has so many French dancers in its ranks, I checked their list of etoiles/principals to compare with the Royal Ballet.

 

RB has 3 British dancers out of 21 principals. By contrast POB has 17 French etoiles out of 19, and many more French people in the company. Graduates who do not find work with POB go to other French companies, as well to as other countries.

 

Eleonora Abbagnato, born Sicily, POB School 1992, Company 1996 at 18

Isabelle Ciaravola born Corsica, France, 1988, 1990 at 18

Emilie Cozette born Rouen area? France, 1993, 1998 at 17

Aurélie Dupont born Paris, France, 1983, 1987 at 16

Dorothée Gilbert born Toulouse, France, 1995, 2000

Marie-Agnès Gillot, born Caen, France, 1985, 1990 at 15

Agnès Letestu born Saint-Maur, France, 1983, 1987 at 16

Myriam Ould Braham born Paris, France, 1996, 1999 at 17

Ludmila Pagliero born Argentina, danced Chile, POB Company 2003]

Laëtitia Pujol, born Morlaix, France ,1992, company 1993 at 18

Jérémie Bélingard born Paris, France, 1987. 1993 at 18

Stéphane Bullion, born Lyon, France, 1994, 1997 at 17

Mathieu Ganio, born Marseille, France, 1999, 2001 at 17

Mathias Heymann born Marseille, France, 2001, 2004 at 17

Josua Hoffalt, born Pertuis, France, 1998, 2002

Nicolas Le Riche, born Sartrouville, France, 1982, 1988 at 16

Hervé Moreau, born Paris, France, 1989, 1995 at 18

Karl Paquette born Paris area, France, 1987, 1994 at 17

Benjamin Pech, born Beziers, France, 1986, 1992 at 18

[aileen]

There have been all sorts of explanations as to why so few British dancers make it to the top. Lack of confidence/diffidence/late maturity have all been mentioned and these all probably relate to training. I've been wondering whether the British students themselves feel that they are not as good as, or are behind, their foreign peers. I read somewhere that Laura Morera said that she was doing fouettes at 9 in Spain. IMO, the RAD syllabus, which many young students are taught, does them no favours. It is incredibly basic and consists of very simple exercises for many grades. At 9, many children in the UK are working towards Grade 3 for which one exercise is, literally, skipping in a large circle. I know that the RAD syllabi is changing and perhaps it will become more challenging. I have watched some Cechetti classes and I have noticed that the syllabus requires much more complex sequences of steps earlier on. There is no comparison between, for example, RAD Grade 3 and Standard 3 in Cechetti.

[Jan McNulty]

Do go and look at the comments at the end of Judith Mackrell's piece:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/may/15/royal-ballet-british-dancers?commentpage=1

 

Luke Jennings has made some brilliant comments.

[Anna C]

IMHO, the problem isn't actually how many (or how few) British trained dancers are employed by the Royal Ballet. It's a rare year indeed when the company doesn't even employ one dancer from RBS (has that actually ever happened?). Although RB are a much larger company than ENB, Northern etc, dancers are working for longer so the fact is there are only ever going to be a couple of jobs every year.

 

Other schools aren't quite so good at getting their graduates into their associated companies. I know Elmhurst isn't a actually feeder school for BRB, but why couldn't it be? Wouldn't it be wonderful if David Bintley went to Elmhurst first, before looking at RBS students? Or if ENBS got at least one graduate a year every year into ENB?

 

Regardless of the students' nationality, is there anything wrong with having true feeder schools?

[Bluebird]

IMHO, the problem isn't actually how many (or how few) British trained dancers are employed by the Royal Ballet. It's a rare year indeed when the company doesn't even employ one dancer from RBS (has that actually ever happened?). 

 

Yes, it has happened but in unusual circumstances.  No RBS graduates were taken into the company in 2006 but Demelza Parish, Gemma Pitchley-Gale and Sabina Westcombe, who were originally in that year, were taken into the company in 2005 (at the end of their second year in the RBS Upper School)   i.e. the graduate year of 2006 is represented in the company by dancers who were taken in alongside the 2005 graduates.

[Dance*is*life]

I don't think that 9 year olds doing fouettes should be the bar that we aim at in training children, although I do agree that talented kids should be pushed more. However I am afraid that this will only happen when children have more intensive training at a younger age in the UK.  Those that go to the junior vocational schools are fine, but the ones that go once a week for 45 minutes ballet are not going to get there however talented they are. In my opinion the problem is not so much the RAD syllabus (and the new ones are indeed pushing in more difficult steps and requiring less set work) but the fact that the students have too few hours of training a week to enable them to move more quickly up the grades or even jump a level en route.  My mother took me away from a very good RAD school, because they expected me to stay at the same level until I was old enough to take the next exam (which I could do after a term's training).  I went back to RAD a few years later and took the Major exams (now Vocational) but if there had not been that rigidity I don't suppose I would have left my first ballet school when I did.

[Pas de Quatre]

I agree it is the lack of hours that holds children back.  When I taught at a Conservatoire in Spain (many years ago - but I don't think much has changed) they only accepted children at age 7, but they went straight into three one hour classical classes a week.  The rate of progress was excellent!

[hfbrew]

I don't think that 9 year olds doing fouettes should be the bar that we aim at in training children, although I do agree that talented kids should be pushed more. However I am afraid that this will only happen when children have more intensive training at a younger age in the UK.  Those that go to the junior vocational schools are fine, but the ones that go once a week for 45 minutes ballet are not going to get there however talented they are. In my opinion the problem is not so much the RAD syllabus (and the new ones are indeed pushing in more difficult steps and requiring less set work) but the fact that the students have too few hours of training a week to enable them to move more quickly up the grades or even jump a level en route.  My mother took me away from a very good RAD school, because they expected me to stay at the same level until I was old enough to take the next exam (which I could do after a term's training).  I went back to RAD a few years later and took the Major exams (now Vocational) but if there had not been that rigidity I don't suppose I would have left my first ballet school when I did.

Firstly too many teachers only teach the syllabus (eg RAD, Istd, Cecchetti)  of whatever level their students are at with the view to doing an exam. These syllabi are exam syllabi and meant to be supplemented by far more than is required on exam day.  Unfortunately too many children, even in the very best schools only get to learn the steps required to pass an exam.   And its not necessarily the teachers fault as many British people measure success by the number of exams passed rather than quality of training received.

 

The RAD, like many other dance societies designed their vocational grades to be studied from aged 9, alongside whatever grade (usually grade3) they were currently at, One of the schools I teach at start to invite the most able students to begin these more intensive classes from this age. Then we run into another problem- most parents think once a week at 45 mins is enough and are horrified if a lesson lasts n hour and a half. Then getting them to try summer schools or go and see live performances is also very difficult. Especially in affluent areas where every student is also doing extra maths, tennis, flute, etc etc.

 

Having said that I know many wonderful young British dancers who are dancing professionally all over the World and UK. I am glad they are not restricted to the Royal Ballet.

 

Incidentally two of my favourite dancers, Laura Morera and Ricardo Cervera , whilst not British, trained at White Lodge and attended RAD summer schools when they were younger so British training obviously worked for them!

[Anna C]

For me, getting enough good quality training AND fitting in vast amounts of homework is the problem for my dd. She's very clever and is as driven with her schoolwork as she is with her ballet, so is often tired out trying to juggle both. It's got to the stage where I have to tell dd not to do as much homework as she'd like!

 

I remember reading about Marianela Nuñez getting up at around 5 am, going to the studio to do a ballet class, going to school and then straight from school back to the studio until late at night.

 

I can only assume that she wasn't trying to give her all to getting 13 GCSEs at A or A*! AND, how many ballet teachers here can - or would - open up their studio for class at 6 or 7am, and then teach until 10 or 11pm?

[A frog]

Isn't another problem when looking at the global competition? It might be very reductive, but children not from South America or Eastern Europe will have the extra motivation that a job as a ballet dancer might materially be far preferable to much of what they could expect, that certainly was the case for Sergei Polunin and one of the reasons why he was sent to the UK.

I understand that UK children also  dream of becoming ballet dancers and I only wish them to find jobs in their chosen profession, ideally close to their home; but from a cynical perspective, I wonder if some of them wouldn't end up better off with another career, and it might be easier for them than for foreign students.

 

I don't know enough about ballet education in the UK, but from what I read, compared to the professional demands, it seems to be considered more like an extracurricular activity than actual professional training.

[Anna C]

I'm probably being dense (apologies if so) but I don't understand what you mean by this: " I wonder if some of them wouldn't end up better off with another career, and it might be easier for them than for foreign students"?

[aileen]

I doubt that Marienela Nunez did much academic study at all in her teens as she was dancing professionally at 14.

[Anna C]

Exactly. Couldn't do that here!

[A frog]

Spannerandponny:

No I'm sorry, I wasn't being very clear, I also realise this might be provocative but this is not my intent, what I mean is that a career as a ballet dancer is very fulfilling for those who make it, but from a material point of view, it is one option among others (and not necessarilly the best one), which might be less true for foreign dancers. 

[aileen]

I think that in other countries children who are serious about a career in ballet concentrate on ballet to the exclusion of (almost) everything else from a much earlier age. They start vocational school at 9 in some countries. In the UK, middle class children in particular are often involved in numerous extra-curricular activities, and I've heard a teacher complain that parents will often say that their child can't attend a class or extra practice because s/he is in a swimming gala or playing in a concert etc. The other problem seems to me that the vocational schools in the UK start almost from scratch at 11, which must mean that the children are some way behind their foreign peers who have started training intensively earlier and who, I believe, only get into the vocational schools if they have already attained a certain level of technical competence.

[Anna C]

Spannerandponny:

No I'm sorry, I wasn't being very clear, I also realise this might be provocative but this is not my intent, what I mean is that a career as a ballet dancer is very fulfilling for those who make it, but from a material point of view, it is one option among others (and not necessarilly the best one), which might be less true for foreign dancers. 

Ah, ok. I see what you mean. If ballet has chosen you though, as opposed to you choosing ballet, I don't think you do it for the money! Our training might be different - even lacking in some areas - but when I see teenagers like my daughter, who absolutely lives for ballet class and would take class every day of the week if she could, I don't think anyone could say that her desire is any less than a student from another country.

[A frog]

This is of course a broad generalisation, and reading what you write here about your dd it really doesn't seem to concern her; but when I see that some only train once or a few times a week, I hope they are not the ones whose parents are complaining their spots are being taken by foreigners.

[Anna C]

Oh my, no! Currently 10.5 hours a week plus very homework-intensive school, increasing to 14.5 hours in September - and she'd do more if she could! Plus holiday courses.....

[taxi4ballet]

I'm not sure that it is correct to imply that RB routinely takes dancers in straight from other schools. Most years some RBS students get RB contracts. I don't think this can generally be said of students in other schools. Of course subsequent promotion within the company is a different thing (and much argued in itself).

 

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well - I wasn't implying that at all!

 

I was just saying that, as an ignorant member of the general public (and the mum of a dancing teenager) it was something that I assumed was the usual course of events - until I learned different.

[hfbrew]

I don't think any ballet student in any country thinks of the money- rates of pay are low everywhere.  The successful students are usually the most passionate, this is true of any Nationality. And there are many, many British dancers out there- they just don't happen to be dancing with the Royal Ballet.

 

This thread was originally about Miss Brind's observations about the current crop of RB principals but it has developed into a discussion about British training .  

 

I've been fortunate to know dancers of all Nationalities and backgrounds. I have also seen many classes, competitions etc where there have been quite rightly a good mix of all Nationalities.  Some are excellent, some are not but this is not down to what Nationality they are!

 

Firstly on the whole the top. British students who began full time training at 11 are not behind at 16  compared to those who started training earlier i.e. at 9 . In classes I have observed at various Upper Schools many are in fact better- just as able to do all  "the tricks"  but with a far greater understanding of safe technique and  musical awareness. I have seen  both outstanding oversees students and British students but real talent is rare regardless of Nationality. It is incredibly hard to become a professional Ballet dancer!

 

 Sadly  I have also seen shocking faults and bone deformities in dancers who trained intensively from 9,   Many of these dancers will not make it , this is true in all countries.  There have been plenty of discussions before on this topic.

 

Whatever the Nationality, very few of a given age group will continue training all the way through - drop out rate is no different in other countries. Fortunately in Britain there is  possibly greater awareness of the need to have a good education to fall back on.  Even those few with successful careers will find themselves looking at career changers in their 30s.   What happens to a student who has been trained intensively at something (eg ballet, gymnastics, football) to the exclusion of all else  if they then get injured or have a change of heart?  Only recently I was very saddened when my ds told me of a very beautiful dancer who wished their life hadn't been so blinkered but felt they couldn't change career path because the only thing they knew was Ballet.

 

Becoming a  Professional Ballet  Dancer is one of the hardest things to do  and I applaud all who make it regardless of Nationality. And I am sure all dancers like to know that they are in a company on merit . 

Edited May 16, 2013 by hfbrew

[Anna C]

Very well said, hfbrew.

[LinMM]

As far as passion is concerned I'm sure it's the same for all those bitten by the ballet bug wherever they come from and many students (and parents) are willing to sacrifice a huge amount to keep going till goals and dreams are reached or have to be given up.

 

However I do think there is sometimes an added incentive to some students from abroad....especially from their families.....as being very successful in sport or medicine or music or ballet etc is seen as a way out of comparative poverty.

 

You can see this a bit in evidence in the film First Position with one of the dancers (who was obviously very homesick at times) but had to go to another country to get the training....one of his dreams was to study with the Royal Ballet......and he achieved this....against the odds really....and is now in the company!!

 

Also in the past(not sure how it works these days) in Russia if you won a scholarship to a big ballet school like Vaganova or Bolshoi etc I think the reverse could also happen where the student could lose the passion but there was pressure from home to continue for similar reasons as above.....because becoming a "star" of a company had its own relative financial rewards....which would not have been the case in a UK company for a person from UK.