Tring vs Hammond for ballet

[Tulip]

A further point to add on reflection is that nearly all the students at Tring are lovely classical dancers regardless of what set they are in. I don't know about Hammond.

[charlie4dancin]

I can't comment about Tring and as most of you know my dd did attend Hammond for a short while and although they did a lot of different dance classes she was disappointed with there not being more ballet and found they were doing street or contemporary on a Saturday and only a short vocational ballet class. On reflection this for her wasn't nearly enough ballet as she had been spoilt at home coming from exceptional ballet training with her local ballet teacher giving about 6 ballet classes a week and Northern Ballet and Elmhurst Associates.... Obviously others are happy doing this and it isn't why she left!! I must add the school, staff and house staff were lovely and worked very closely with us to make dd feel happy I can't comment on how good the standard of training is as my dd didn't attent long enough but I would advise too to look at all 4 schools to get a better feel. We loved Elmhurst and was always our first choice!!!

Good luck

Cx

[2dancersmum]

I would agree with the advice to visit and audition to anywhere your child would be happy to go.  This thread seems to confuse a lot of lower and upper information in terms of sets and training offered but I personally would not base at decision for an 11 year old on what they might want to do at 16.  Pastoral care and academics are just as important as the dance at this age.  Both schools offer good classical training and their students get into 6th forms to continue training.  Many students from Tring, Hammond, RBS and Elmhurst change schools for 6th form and their reasons for changing vary.  Some may not get a place in their own schools sixth form.  Some may want to take a different route. Some may want a change of scene and to experience a world outside of their 11-16 schooling.  In any case all have to re-audition for 6th form and the views and requirements for a 16 year old are very different to those of an 11 year old.

Until you audition you do not know if you have a choice of schools for your DD but I personally think you would only be making a bad choice if you went against your own gut feelings and chose purely on reputation.  Each child is different and a happy child will thrive and be able to achieve their potential but a miserable one will not.

[Tulip]

But each school runs things differently. I know for Tring, after year 9 a child is then classed as being in the senior school and therefor put into sets that could change their career path. Year 10 is GSCE year so you are then locked into a system you may not agree with, but you don't want to change schools until the end of year 11 when GCSE's are over.

 

I think it is crucial to look at a school as a whole. You would do this with any normal comprehensive school surely? Also the quality of training on offer must be of a high standard for the first five years otherwise why would you go? But one way to gage quality training is to look at their graduation list. If student were completely happy with the training offered at a school and they felt that they were getting everything they needed, then surely the student would continue into 6th form. Tring does not asses out and I don't think Hammond does either. Students do move around schools for lots of reasons, this again will be a question that you may want to ask, it could be reasons such as funding, removal of MDS or just not happy?

[taxi4ballet]

My suggestion is... audition everywhere you can.

 

Only the exceptional few are ever offered a place at more than one school, and are then in the fortunate position of being able to choose.

 

Each school looks for slightly different things so it makes sense to cast your net as wide as possible.

[Pas de Quatre]

Yes, Tring follows the original Public School divisions ( e.g. Eton, Harrow etc,) where people enter senior school in Year 9.  Legat at Bedes school does the same. 

[Julie 2 Milner]

LinMM you asked what an MDS is. It is one of the ways of obtaining funding help and if I'm correct is assessed on parental income. Might stand for Music and Dance Scheme or Scholarship not sure.

[taxi4ballet]

Students do move around schools for lots of reasons, this again will be a question that you may want to ask, it could be reasons such as funding, removal of MDS or just not happy?

 

There are also some who start vocational training at one of the schools, continue to audition each year for their 'first' choice and are ultimately successful...

[cristalle]

To be clear, Tring does assess out and MDS funding and DADA funding IS removed if students do not make appropriate progress. This is in line with other schools with this funding. Students can have funding removed at the end of any academic year if there is a real problem, but more commonly at the end of year 9 or year 11. However, there is huge benefit to the family if a child retains their MDS into 6th form as the new DADA funding scheme implemented this year, will really impact on the support a moderate income family would get for boarding. The government has used different income brackets to assess this, so a student retaining their MDS funding to 6th form will be much better off, generally speaking, as a boarder, than they would be on the new DADA funding.

[2dancersmum]

Each school does do things differently and I think you should look at the school as whole for years 7-11.  I think graduate destinations can be a little misleading for looking at year 7 entry as 6th forms are made up of a far wider mix of students with different training backgrounds.    

Tulip say "If student were completely happy with the training offered at a school and they felt that they were getting everything they needed, then surely the student would continue into 6th form."   I do not know about Tring but for RBS, Elmhurst and Hammond, surely there is no guarantee that you can continue into 6th form, even if you want to stay at that school. RBS have their own system and Elmhurst and Hammond students have to audition for 6th form and I don't believe that choosing to change schools is necessarily about the training thus far.  After all ENBS, Central, Northern are not options prior to 6th form and will attract students from vocational schools.  I have known students also who after spending 5 years in a small school simply wanted to spread their wings and experience a different corner of 'ballet world'. Don't forget that a child also changes physically and mentally over those 5 years.  Some might be more suited to contemporary or musical theatre rather than classical ballet by age 16 and their interest and focus may have changed too.

 

At the end of the day I think you have to choose what is best for your child in terms of dance, academics and pastoral care and that will be different for each child and each family and only a few get to choose between schools so visit and audition to all. 

[Tulip]

I did say students change schools for many reasons. At Tring I have never heard of anyone being assessed out of the school, however MDS funding has been removed which usually means that student can no longer afford to stay. The question was which school out of the two was best for classical training, both schools are excellent and to be able to go to either one is a real privilidgevand achievement.

[2dancersmum]

Agree with your last statement wholeheartedly Tulip.

[sarahw]

Wow - thanks everyone. The breadth of issues you are discussing is very helpful in guiding me about which qs to ask!

[KathyG]

We know of one Tring student who had their MDS funding withdrawn in year 9. They had to leave at the end of year 9 as they couldn't afford to stay on.

[Lisa O`Brien]

I`ve  always wondered about the school`s policies of withdrawing funding for a student,thereby forcing that student to leave. I`m assuming this is done because they are "no longer suitable to the training" etc. Why do they skirt around it by withdrawing the funding? What would happen if that child`s parents were to suddenly win the Lottery and were able to fully fund their child`s place? Would the school change their minds and then allow the child to continue,knowing the funding was going to be given to another? It just seems strange that funding is withdrawn,rather than people simply being told they have to leave because they`re not good enough.[Hope I make sense??!!!]

[Tulip]

This did happen, the student was moved to the bottom set and another chose the musical theatre route.

[HAIRBELLES]

This did happen, the student was moved to the bottom set and another chose the musical theatre route.

Do you mean they actually won the lottery? 

 

For anyone wanting to have a look around The  Hammond there is an open evening on the 14th May 5pm-8pm.

I would post a link but I am only able to do basics as I have techno-fear 

 

It is for the whole school so you will be able to have a look at what the older students are doing too.

Edited May 2, 2013 by HAIRBELLES

[Tulip]

Hairbelles, a majority of students at Tring pay full fees as there are not lots of MDS awards available. Of course there are sponsors but they too are a rarety and then I now the forces children are supported by the forces. They were rich but not any more the school fees ate all the money ha ha.

[LinMM]

Thanks Julie I had sort of guessed that the DS bit is for dance scholarship but stupidly couldn't work out the M bit!! But yes I'm sure you're right it probably does stand for Music. That info about the open day at Hammond should prove useful for anyone thinking about sending their children there.....do the other Schools have an open day......this could help in making decisions.....though of course where you are situated in UK may make difficult to attend etc ( I too not sure how to post links etc can only do if email).

thequays it's precisely these issues I had been wondering about.....some people are offered places without funding....some with....is this because the schools are already looking at Parental income to a degree? Or does a funded place mean they think a child has more potential at the point of audition? Anyway this may come under another topic thread. Sarahw in the end I think it's almost impossible to answer your initial question as for an 11 year old I'm sure both these schools would be excellent if you were to be offered a place. I'm sure the standard of classical ballet issue is not so relevant until nearing sixth form age where more precise career decisions will start to present.

I was struck by someone's comment here that they had a really excellent local teacher and were doing a lot of ballet. It could be...if in this scenario....and our child is progressing well anyway......to carry on with a good thing and not worry about vocational schooling until the sixth form stage. One could always supplement this with summer schools etc to keep in touch with the competitive world out there but it's true there are some really fantastic local teachers out there and if you are lucky enough to have one of them you could avoid the problems of not knowing how long your child will be funded at a vocational school.....I hasten to add that I know not everybody is near to an excellent teacher.

[afab]

I'm sure the standard of classical ballet issue is not so relevant until nearing sixth form age where more precise career decisions will start to present.

 

In my experience, it is actually very important since the cleanliness of the basis is acquired very early on and makes a difference for 6th form auditions... or even before actually...

Edited May 2, 2013 by afab

[LinMM]

This particular statement was aimed at the parent who was trying to work out whether Tring or Hammond was the better school so it was assuming that her child was at either of these schools......where one would assume the basics of classical ballet would have been well taught!! It was meant in the context of deciding whether to really specialise in ballet or a wider field as her daughter likes ballet particularly at her age(11 I think). But it's a long way between 11 and 16!! "The standard of classical ballet" bit was in precise reference to the two schools not a general reference to the standard of classical ballet not being important.....hence the next bit of the post about if you are lucky to have an excellent teacher etc. I come from a ballet background myself but realise that as a parent if you don't, it can be difficult to judge when teaching is excellent. Of course in the general context your children have to be working towards a very high standard if wanting to pursue ballet as a career which decisions have to seriously be made round about 16. Not every child can go to The Royal Ballet School......as I myself found out at the age of 11!!

[afab]

LinMM, I see what you mean but the actual original question was from a parent whose kid will be auditioning next year and is is none of these schools.

 

And if this parent, or another with no special knowledge of ballet training, reads the quote I posted from your post, they could get the idea that the standard of ballet is not relevant until later... I just wanted to clarify that they have to keep in mind that the basis are utterly important from an early age for a ballet career...

[cristalle]

Tring has an Open day on 27th June

[LinMM]

Couldnt agree more afab with your last post! Ballet is an exacting art.

Anyway sarahw I really hope your DD gets a place somewhere and with funding if that is an issue as it is for most people I hope you will keep us posted with how it all goes eventually.

[LinMM]

Julie just looked up MDS....it is music and dance scheme....series of government funded(on sliding scale) grants given to certain schools of excellence for kids 11-18(11-19 for Dance) who show excellent potential etc. the money is given to the schools who then decide who to award the money to.....I don't think parents can apply directly to the actual scheme. Higher the income the less money you will get......although these schemes never really look at families as a whole so are probably unfair to some.....but better than nothing. Sorry I shold have just looked this up first as probably very irritating to people on the ball about these things and should probably be more careful on what topic threads to comment on.....just got a bit hooked on this forum at the mo. Unfortunately do not have any DD's or DS's not even any D's or S's full stop but still like reading about other people's!!!

[sarahw]

Thank you all, will keep you informed of course - you have all been very generous with info.

 

I suspect the most likely outcome is that my child will not get offered a place at any but didn't want to apply somewhere I wasn't happy with...

 

As a non dancer the whole career bit seems so tenuous and while we will support our child in their dancing aspirations, because they work so hard at it and live/ sleep it etc, we don't want to put them into something where the academics may be compromised for a dancing education that may not get them to the ballet career they desperately desire. (And the ballet is becoming more important over all the other types of dance they do it seems) And of course there are no career guarantees wherever you go!!!!

 

It's bamboozling tbh..

[Tulip]

I must say the academics at Tring is excellent. My daughter left with 9 GCSEs with 5As and 1A* the rest were Bs, these subjects were in the sciences, maths ect. Academics is only half a day but they are very strict that no vocational subject is allowed during that time. Tring also offer a wide range of subjects particularly for A level.

[along for the ride mum]

I totally understand those feelings, Sarah! I have rationalised it to myself by thinking that dd will be in small classes in a school that gets reasonable academic results with bright , motivated children. Even if she does not end up pursuing a career in dance, she will have had a decent education and been happy and motivated along the way. We did consider a very academic girls school nearby but even with the scholarship offered, the fees would have near crippled us and she would not have been able to continue dance at anything other than the most basic once-a-week level. It just didn't seem like an option as I can't imagine her not dancing. I think she'd be miserable. Of course everyone must make the choice that seems right for their own family, and there's no guarentee that any of us will get it right. We just have to do the best we can with the info we have at the time. Good luck xx

[hfbrew]

Thank you all, will keep you informed of course - you have all been very generous with info.

 

I suspect the most likely outcome is that my child will not get offered a place at any but didn't want to apply somewhere I wasn't happy with...

 

As a non dancer the whole career bit seems so tenuous and while we will support our child in their dancing aspirations, because they work so hard at it and live/ sleep it etc, we don't want to put them into something where the academics may be compromised for a dancing education that may not get them to the ballet career they desperately desire. (And the ballet is becoming more important over all the other types of dance they do it seems) And of course there are no career guarantees wherever you go!!!!

 

It's bamboozling tbh..

Just to say that academics are  not generally compromised at vocational schools, my son had a far superior education than he would have otherwise achieved and I know plenty of people, who having decided not to become dancers after all successfully get non dancing  jobs or good university places. A couple  of good friends of ours who were at Tring training as dancers are now at Cambridge for example. I can't imagine that Hammond would be any different, certainly even 20 years or so ago when I was there they prided themselves on the academics. Obviously. like at any school the quality of teachers can vary but these schools do recognise how vital a good academic education is.

[LinMM]

I can verify this from many moons ago when Elmhurst used to be based near Camberley in Surrey not far from where I lived as a child. When my mum was investigating other alternatives to RBS the people at Elmhurst were keen to take people who had passed the 11plus as well as had dance talent of course. And I know my mum was very keen for the academic side of the school to,be good in case the dance didn't work out......always the realist.....I didn't get in so carried on dancing locally but I remember my mum being impressed with Elmhurst at the time.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Yes, I remember from old adverts in The Dancing Times that White Lodge used to be a Grammar School. I think a lot of the ballet boarding schools were. 

[taxi4ballet]

It is also a big eye-opener for all those, ourselves included, who for many reasons (including financial ones) would not be looking at private education at all in the normal course of events.

 

There must be lots of people out there who unexpectedly find themselves with a ballet dancer on their hands, and who then need to look into the pros/cons/finances of the private sector, as there is no state alternative.

[afab]

Or 2 or 3... Which really doesn't help...