rowan Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I really feel the pain and disappointment expressed in the above posts and my heart goes out to you and your dancing children. My child has never tried for vocational school so I can't speak from personal experience, but it really is the case that people turn down WL for other vocational schools, or in fact other non-vocational schools. People have to pick the right school for their child and that school is not necessarily WL, despite its prestige. Some people just agonise over which place to accept and might only finally decide at the last minute, and also some pick what they think is right at the time because it is the "best" school, only to flee soon after. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I have never come across anyone who chose Elmhurst over White Lodge. Even if they wanted to, the peer pressure to accept White Lodge is too great. I think auditioning at both places is more about the kudos of saying that you had a choice. I also don't buy the argument of "being seen" incase things don't work out at WL. It makes no difference, you just go to the final audition with everyone else and they pick on the day. Loads of people get offered places who haven't "been seen" before. They will know you are coming from WL as an assessed out person anyway and all the connotations that go with that, good or bad. Being seen at a year 7 audition a year or two or three before will make no difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evie Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I agree with that, i cant imagine any parent allowing that! My ds had 2 more finals next week, we not going, he got the one he wanted!! Give someone else a chance! I lost the will to live these past few months with all this auditioning rubbish! I did it because he loves to dance with a passion, now we can both relax thank god!!!!!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkletoes Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 from my experience its not a case of having x places and therefore we must make x offers resulting in if someone is offered a place and doesn't take it then someone loses out, normally offers are made to all who have met the requirements, with the assumption that if anything more offers can be made than spaces available as significant numbers of offers will be rejected if funding isn't available. Rejection is hard and i sympathise with all of you having to deal with the aftermath as i've been there but sadly this industry is full of rejection and its one of the hardest elements to deal with. for those who got to the finals its always worth requesting feedback you may not get it but most of the time there is something for you to work with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisadebs Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 We were in this situation a couple of years back. Much to our suprise DD was offered a White Lodge place, After some consideration we went ahead with the Elmhurst finals because it felt like we needed to look fully at both options before we made a final decision. For us Elmhurst would have been a more practical choice especially regards distance. Â A second opinion from another school also helped confirm for us as parents that she had some level of potential - had we got a no from Elmhurst we might have made a different decision re White Lodge. Â For all the prestige of White Lodge - If given a choice I would always go with the school where my child felt most 'at home' - sometimes in order to judge this, you need a second visit. Â wildflowers - this must be such a difficult situation, really feel for you - the audtion process is such an intense one, sometimes its very hard to pick up the pieces afterwards, I do hope any disappointed DDs and DS's are smiling again soon and most importantly enjoying their dancing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evie Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 so lisadebs where did your dd choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisadebs Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hi Evie - she chose White Lodge simply because that is where she said she felt most 'at home'. If she had felt more at home at Elmhurst then we would have sent her there. She was very lucky to have a choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I know from experience how frustrating and sometimes brutal this strange world our children have chosen can be. It must be infinitely frustrating and heartbreaking to have one child turned down for a school which is already training an older sibling. Â However, all children develop at different rates, and while their brother/sister may have been ready for a year 7 place, it maybe that younger sibling needs a year or two to reach the same stage. Or it could be that the school is looking for something different this year. Â Sadly, like the Assessment process, the audition process is mysterious, opaque, and appears to have no rhyme nor reason - BUT we all know this before we send our children off to audition. It's on every school's website or application form that correspondence about the result will not be entered into, rightly or wrongly, but it is there. Â With regard to auditioning abroad, as has been pointed out, there would only be a few non-MDS spaces available to students from abroad. The fashion for Chinese and Japanese ballet dancers is not a new thing, nor is auditioning in Japan limited to Elmhurst. We already know that Elmhurst and RBS will not fill spaces unless they find a child who ticks all the boxes at a time, so I truly don't think it's a case of children from abroad taking spaces which would otherwise have been given to British children. Â The question of attending another final once you've been offered a place elsewhere is tricky; I can see reasons both for and against. But while the schools allow the practice, I don't think it's for us to start slating people who do it. Everyone here looks after their own children's interests first, after all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If my dd was offered WL and that was her first choice i would never even think to attend any other final!There is no point,but others have different reasons! I know this is a difficult time,and i have this to come in a couple of years, but surely if the school cant find exactly what they are looking for they wont take a child. If there are lots of what they are looking for then they must need to decide who is more suitable and then the others will be put on the waiting list.If your not on the waiting list then maybe there wouldnt be any difference if the ones from WL auditioned! But at the end of the day,they are all so young and develope at different times!Some kids might be very tallented but started ballet much later!I know this from experience!! I started dancing at 16 many years ago!everyday for three years.Then at 19 i auditioned for Laines,London Studios,The place and Labon.I lied about my age and said i was 16 though!I was offered places at all of them and a scholarship to 2 of them.In the end i didnt go to any of them for personal reasons but my point is its not over for the beautiful little dds that didnt make it this time.If you have a tallented dd they will make it in the end xxxxx 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sadly children do get overlooked at auditions for all sorts of reasons. If the panel is spending time assessing and marking children who have no intention of taking up an offered place, it is unfair on the other children and yes, one of them could miss out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 But schools have waiting lists, don't they, so if a child doesn't take up his or her place then I assume the child at the top of the waiting list would be offered the place. Â It is not for parents to have to justify here why they may send their children to more than one final audition. As I say, while the schools allow the practice, it is every parent's perogative to let their child audition. Nothing will be achieved by going round in circles about whether it's right or wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankruptMum Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 But schools have waiting lists, don't they, so if a child doesn't take up his or her place then I assume the child at the top of the waiting list would be offered the place. Â It is not for parents to have to justify here why they may send their children to more than one final audition. As I say, while the schools allow the practice, it is every parent's perogative to let their child audition. Nothing will be achieved by going round in circles about whether it's right or wrong. Â I agree, S&P, its yet another very personal one - everyone has the right to their final audition, its no different than those who gain a place and then find out they cant afford it - its not for us to question why or deny others an opporutnity. Â My daughter is having to pick up the pieces after devastating news that she has been assessed out and she has done so with her head held high and enthusiasm for the next adventure - whatever that may be, and 'whys'and 'what if's' just delay the healing process. Â There are so few places/opportunities for lower schools - a no is just a change of path for this year, who knows what next year will bring. The thought of having my daughter come home is a feeling which brings greater excitement than opening that 'yes' letter, I know she is very fortunate to have had the opportunity but for those who children who are staying home in September, please enjoy being able to give them a hug before school, help them with their homework, support them through dance exams, and having the freedom to be part of their lives - its something to treasure. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Excellent post. :-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Congratulations to those offered a place and commiserations and sympathy to those who were not. A special thought for you and your DD Brankruptmum - a lovely healthy attitude there and I am sure you will make the most of your DD being home again - even if it ends up being briefly. Â On the subject of attending more than 1 final audition. Sending your child away at 11, even if it is to follow their dreams, is not an easy decision for most parents and personally I would have wanted every opportunity to revisit schools to reinforce impressions/decisions. When you know a school only by reputation and have no personal knowledge, accepting the first offer and not attending any other finals does require complete confidence from both parents and the child that the first school really is their preferred choice. Not easy on just one short visit. And incidentally, I do know of more than one child in the past who has chosen Elmhurst over White Lodge. I also know of one girl some years ago who went to White Lodge because of its status, hated it, left and auditioned for Elmhurst the following year. Each child is an individual and each family is different and each needs to do their best for their child as they would faced with any decision, not just applying to ballet school. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankruptMum Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Congratulations to those offered a place and commiserations and sympathy to those who were not. A special thought for you and your DD Brankruptmum - a lovely healthy attitude there and I am sure you will make the most of your DD being home again - even if it ends up being briefly. Â On the subject of attending more than 1 final audition. Sending your child away at 11, even if it is to follow their dreams, is not an easy decision for most parents and personally I would have wanted every opportunity to revisit schools to reinforce impressions/decisions. When you know a school only by reputation and have no personal knowledge, accepting the first offer and not attending any other finals does require complete confidence from both parents and the child that the first school really is their preferred choice. Not easy on just one short visit. And incidentally, I do know of more than one child in the past who has chosen Elmhurst over White Lodge. I also know of one girl some years ago who went to White Lodge because of its status, hated it, left and auditioned for Elmhurst the following year. Each child is an individual and each family is different and each needs to do their best for their child as they would faced with any decision, not just applying to ballet school. Â Â Thank you 2dancersmum, whilst I have not missed the late nights driving across the city to dance class etc., there is so much more I have - my daughter is so positive I dont feel I have the right to tarnish her amazing attitude, so as a family we have had to quickly accept and move on. I am guaranteed at least 2.5 years of her being at home now and am looking forward to it (as is she) teenage arguments and all! Â Your post re: attending final autidions really does hit the nail on the head, its a huge step and anyone outside the 'dance world' finds it hard to come to terms with sending a child away to school at 11, I think we start to feel its very normal when absorbed in this dance forum. Â Its a huge step and there are so many sacrifices, it has to be a well thought out decision regardless of the school offering a place. If secondary schools offered places personally to students rather than going through councils there are very few parents who would accept their first offer without looking further - vocational schools are no different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 As harsh as this may sound (and I do feel for you all, I really do) if your child wants to embark upon a career as a ballet dancer then as a parent you have to prepare him/her for the many frustrations and disappointments that lie ahead. Getting into vocational school is just the start of it. After that there's the annual round of assessments, applications for jobs and, even if your child is successful in obtaining a contract with a company, s/he may languish in the corps and be overlooked for roles and promotions as younger dancers come into the company and overtake him/her. It is never-ending. Then there's the likelihood of injuries which may devastate or even curtail a career in ballet. The child and later the adult has to be very, very resilient to succeed in this career; talent alone is not enough. We tell our children that if they work hard they will be successful and, whilst this is true in most areas of life, sadly it is not the case with ballet. Physique is everything in ballet: flexibility; strength and the shape of the body ( including the feet). There are many other demanding and competitive careers but few have the exacting physical requirements of ballet. I'm relieved that my daughter doesn't have the talent or the aspiration to be a ballet dancer! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowlight Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I remember that realisation from my dd when she was about 12: Â 'Mrs X (School Teacher) says if you work hard enough you can have anything you want... but its not true is it?' Â She was right. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 My dd's Mids teacher used to say to her class "If you work as hard as you possibly can, I can't guarantee you will succeed. But if you don't work as hard as you possibly can, then I can guarantee that you won't succeed". Our family now calls this a "Miss X Guarantee" - it can be applied to lots of life situations! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin64 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 As hard as rejection is, try to remember that the fact that your child has made it to a final will stand them in good stead for a dancing future. They obviously have the talent and physique to be dancers. The options are still there to audition next year or at 16, to audition for a CAT later this year perhaps or to try out some new dance styles....which ballet is the foundation for...so your DC will probably learn fast and shine. Â My DD loves dance and is a hard worker, but as glowlight says that is not enough if your feet or physique are not right. She still continues to work hard but had to put her White Lodge dreams away very early on. So dust yourselves down and look ahead. Remember your DCs are among the elite to get an audition at Elmhurst or WL. Some never get anywhere near. "So near and yet so far" is always a very hard place to be. I think it is probably most healthy not to look for blame but to move on as quickly as possible with the knowledge that you are really jolly good at ballet and can take the knocks involved with head held high. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 That's excellent advice Pas de Quatre and Robin64. And as angry/hurt/bitter/bemused as we can be feeling, it's also worth remembering what a very small world the ballet world is. Teachers and Directors can pop up at any time in the most unexpected of places! Â We should be able to ask questions and request feedback, but when push comes to shove - and as hard and heartbreaking as the ballet world is - the decision usually stands. If as parents we can conduct ourselves with dignity and keep a cool head (no matter how shredded we feel inside) I truly believe it helps our children heal and move on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaris Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this really fascinating topic: it gives a very honest, and at times heartfelt, insight into what happens at Finals. Congratulations and good luck to all those who have succeeded this year, and all the best in the future to everyone who hasn't yet got what they hoped for xx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Pas de Quatre, I like the "Miss X Guarantee"! Â I'm probably moving way off topic here but I'm becoming increasingly concerned about how British born children are going to compete in the global market, not just in the world of ballet but in other spheres as well. IMO the way in which children are raised today (and this includes anyone involved in teaching children in any way), with the emphasis on building self esteem and developing the whole child, militates against our children succeeding in intensely tough and competitive environments such as ballet. For some (many?) British born children the outlook of the vocational schools must come as a huge shock as it is so different from what they have encountered before. It may be a generalisation but I believe that this is not the case for students from many other cultures (not America, which is more extreme than the UK). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Aileen, can I ask you to start a new thread with your post in? Just so that we're not discussing two separate issues in one thread? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Spannerandpony, could you do this for me as I'm ashamed to say that I'm hopeless with computers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It would be better coming from you, if you can. Just select the text in your post, copy it, and then on the front page of the "doing dance" forum there should be a "start new topic" button up on the top right above all the thread titles. Just paste your text into a new topic. Â Shout if you get stuck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Spannerandpony, done (non-DS is now home from school). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well done! :-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Spanner - have I missed something? Are you now a moderator? I notice it says 'staff' and you have 2 stars under your name!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Ribbons - check out the forum tomorrow - there'll be news about it's new committee etc, but yes, we are both now moderators 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 ...although JulieW is one step ahead of me as she has (most impressively) managed to get a profile picture to appear! ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Can't quite remember how . But go to the drop-down button next to your log-in name (top right), then I think it's in "My Profile" and you click on where there should be a picture. I think I tried uploading one straight in but it didn't crop it very well so I put one on "Gravatar" (I have no idea how I came to that conclusion - I must've seen that someone else had done it - just had to open an account and you put photos in there). Not much help, might might just point you in the right direction. Â Anyway - I digress...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lildancer96 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Did anybody who attended 6th form auditions ask how long till results? Lil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frangapani Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sorry I have been away from forum for a few days and just catching up - very well done to the "yes" children and also to the "no" children whose day will come F xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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