ENB's new image

[GTL]

My tuppence-worth of reaction: Fonteyn was a DBE by the time she was 37 (1956). Moira Shearer was also highly regarded and well-known through her appearance in “The Red Shoes” in 1948 but did not supersede her as #1 at Covent Garden. Robert Helpmann also had a high-profile acting career, so she didn't lack competition pre-Nureyev.

[restor]

ENBs New Image:

What is the point of taxpayer subsidy to ENB?

 

1. Question: Does it support jobs for British people ?

Answer: Not really

2. Q: Does it enable the creation of new works of art that would not otherwise be made?

A. Not really.

3. Does it give access to ballet to people who would not otherwise be able to see it?

Answer: Not really.

 

So how can the company regain a sense of purpose and a reason (s) to be subsidised?

[Jan McNulty]

Restor, I would have to ask you again if you have a specific issue with ENB? You have repeated the same comments on a number of occasions now on a thread that had started to fade away.

 

Well I would have to say that I believe that ENB perform a valuable function within the British ballet community.

 

At the moment, there may not be an overwhelming number of British-born dancers but there are a good number. Looking at the names of the technical, administrative and orchestral staff, most of the names look British. Therefore, I would say that YES ENB does support jobs for British people.

 

The answer to your question 2 is also YES - for example the choreographic programmes that are being presented next weekend plus various new productions over the past few years - for example The Snow Queen as well as new productions of existing classics such as Nutcracker.

 

Again, the answer to question 3 is YES. As I have previously stated, ENB tours regularly to 6 cities outside London and gives people the opportunity to see high class ballet, including full orchestra, that they might not have an opportunity to see.

 

I think Tamara Rojo (who may not be British born but who has given this country the joy of seeing her throughout her dancing career) should be given an opportunity to show her mettle before we make snap judgements and sweeping statements.

 

BTW, I haven't got a rabidly-pro-ENB axe to grind.

 

Please let's try and keep this thread to the original subject of the Company's new image.

[Marieve]

3. Does it give access to ballet to people who would not otherwise be able to see it?

Answer: Not really.

Yes it does. Many, many people outside of London only to to see live ballet performances when a touring company is performing nearby or only a short distance away

[A frog]

Since it's now pretty clear that Restor is just trolling (see also his comments on Ecstasy and Death and the Sofia ballet), should we just ignore him?

[zxDaveM]

ENBs New Image:

What is the point of taxpayer subsidy to ENB?

 

1. Question: Does it support jobs for British people ?

Answer: Not really

2. Q: Does it enable the creation of new works of art that would not otherwise be made?

A. Not really.

3. Does it give access to ballet to people who would not otherwise be able to see it?

Answer: Not really.

 

So how can the company regain a sense of purpose and a reason (s) to be subsidised?

 

1. - yes. Most of the 'backroom' staff and orchestra are British, from what I've seen

2. - yes, to some degree. New Nutcracker (and it was needed!), I think Snow Queen was new, they bring in pieces new to the UK (the last triple bill had two old but new to UK pieces, for example)

3. - yes, they spend most of their performance time touring around England. The folks in London get to see them too, which is cool if they missed out on RB tickets, as its usually easier to get them and much closer to the event (so you don't have to plan months in advance)

[aileen]

I think that we should just ignore restor now. S/he has had the opportunity to express his/her opposition to ENB's continued existence over a number of months and there is really no point in discussing any aspect of ENB (good and bad) with him/her further. I do wonder who restor is; his/her dislike of ENB is really quite extreme.

[chrischris]

Just want to add my two cents, as someone who has said things on this forum people haven't liked. There is a debate to be had about the rights and wrongs/ positives and negatives of the different funding models, and whether the governemnt should be funding some of the arts organisations, and just because somebody has a different opinion doesn't make them a troll or give them an ulterior motive. I don't know the background to restor's comments, but I think not listening to outside opinions is generally one of the problems of the arts world, and i've noticed on this forum that some people (and I stress that it is just some people) don't seem to like hearing views different to their own, and I don't think that's particularly helpful.

[Jan McNulty]

Chrischris - yes there is a debate to be had, I couldn't agree more.  But coming on to various threads and repeating the same thing over and over again in respect of one company does lead one to believe that the poster has an issue with that company that isn't being stated.

 

Within the Acceptable Use Policy there is a statement that says that:

 

"If a member chooses to make highly critical comments this must be done in their own full name and not behind an anonymous user name and email address"

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/417-the-balletcoforum-acceptable-use-policy/

 

The comments being made are repetitive and are not helping to move the debate forwards on any level.  I think the natural inclination of many people on this board is to try and counter continuous negative comments on a specific topic by one person with reason and by putting forward an alternative point of view.  I really dont think that indicates that "some people (and I stress that it is just some people) don't seem to like hearing views different to their own, and I don't think that's particularly helpful."

 

This particular thread is about ENB's new image and seems to have been hijacked by someone who seems to have some sort of anti-ENB agenda.  There is another thread about Arts Council reviews that covers a lot more than just ENB.

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/2737-uk-arts-council-review-of-opera-and-ballet-looking-at-new-models/

[restor]

This topic is the rebrand of ENB and if the new image ( one can only speculate as to its cost)  is to mean something, and is not just like placing a new carpet over a decaying foundation, then it is fair to ask what the company does to justify taxpayer subsidy.

 

The company does not visit towns that are not visited by or would not be visited by foreign touring companies.

 

Their tour repertoire is not one of new works of art.

 

Their prices are not significantly lower than non UK subsidised companies.

 

They do not provide much employment for the growing number of students whose education and training in ballet is also at UK taxpayer expense.

They are a fine company and these are fair points to make and making these points is not negative but realistic if the company is to go forward.

 

 Rather than providing a sound reason or reasons for continuing the taxpayer subsidy  it is disappointing that some members try to question the right or motive to make these points  and, for those of us who care about ENB, it is disappointing that there has been no proposal for how ENB might develop.

[Anna C]

With regard to employing ballet students, ENB do give contracts to graduates from our Upper Schools. My point that for some years now, there has not been even one British born and trained dancer in the company's top rank. But that is not the same as not giving employment to British workers or dancers, because of course the company does that.

 

Last year no graduates from ENBS were offered contracts or apprenticeships with the company, which is a shame, but it does seem that Tamara is trying to rectify that by getting more involved with the school.

[MAB]

This is just to apologize re the post I made about the amount of subsidy to the RB, I realize that a figure I was shown was privileged information and I should not have referred to it.  Sorry.

[aileen]

This thread is beginning to read along the lines of there being a deliberate policy of ENB (and UK companies generally) preferring foreign born or trained dancers over those who are British or who have trained in Britain. I'm sure that that's not the case and that ENB and the other companies take on who they regard as the best students, regardless of where they were born or were trained. Specifically with regard to ENB, ENBS is not a feeder school but, apart from last year, has taken on quite a few ENBS students over the past few years. ENB has also taken quite a few students from the RBS over the same period. As has been said before, the ballet "market" is a global one and this is unlikely to change in the future. All the companies want to take on the best dancers that they can attract. Unless the companies adopt a policy of taking from feeder schools (as POB and Stuttgart have done), restrict foreign born dancers at those feeder schools (again as POB has done) and tighten up the immigration rules British students are going to have to compete with the best students from all over the world.

[Pas de Quatre]

I think this is where the confusion and disappointment originate.  Rightly or wrongly, most people assume that the school of the same name as the company will in effect act as a feeder school.

 

However there are times when it does begin to feel almost as if we are harking back to the early 20th century when British dancers had to change their name to something more exotic to be taken seriously.   

[Sim]

I think that in addtion to the touring that ENB does to take ballet to those who don't often get the chance to see it, we should also mention all the excellent outreach programmes that they do with local schools, both in London and when they are on tour.  Furthermore, they have the Angelina Ballerina and the 'My First....'  programmes which are aimed at getting children interested in ballet.  Furthermore, we know from experience that if ENB were to tour a programme containing only new works, not many people would go along to see them and money would be lost.  They have to draw a very fine line between taking new works out there and taking out the classics which they know will put bums on seats and earn money.  Tamara is very aware of this and will, I'm sure, get the balance right.

 

I think that ENB are fully deserving of every penny of tax payers' money that they get.

[Anna C]

Absolutely. The only gap in their market very recently has been for the younger ballet dancing teenagers, with the inclusion of "Jeune Homme" in the recent triple being unsuitable for some sensitive young souls ;-) and of course the wonderful "My first" series being aimed at the real little'uns.

 

Fortunately there is usually something teen-friendly at either the Coli or the ROH...when we have the money to spare, that is!

[Jan McNulty]

Sim, thanks for reminding us all of the other aspects of the Company such as the Outreach programmes.

 

I think all the British companies do a lot of Outreach work, which is much appreciated by all the participants.

[zxDaveM]

This topic is the rebrand of ENB and if the new image ( one can only speculate as to its cost)  is to mean something, and is not just like placing a new carpet over a decaying foundation, then it is fair to ask what the company does to justify taxpayer subsidy.

 

The company does not visit towns that are not visited by or would not be visited by foreign touring companies.

 

Their tour repertoire is not one of new works of art.

 

Their prices are not significantly lower than non UK subsidised companies.

 

They do not provide much employment for the growing number of students whose education and training in ballet is also at UK taxpayer expense.

They are a fine company and these are fair points to make and making these points is not negative but realistic if the company is to go forward.

 

 Rather than providing a sound reason or reasons for continuing the taxpayer subsidy  it is disappointing that some members try to question the right or motive to make these points  and, for those of us who care about ENB, it is disappointing that there has been no proposal for how ENB might develop.

 

I think a majority of students in any of the leading schools are paid for by parents. I don't have any figures, but from a friend's daughter's experience, there are very few grants available for the fees.

 

I'd disagree about ticket prices; only the Coliseum seems to have prices comparable to those at ROH, and even those significantly less for RB, than say the Bolshoi. The money generated in London for say, a long run of Nutcracker, goes a long way in enabling everything else. Without an Arts Council grant, that's just about all they'd be able to do - which would probably drive the dancers potty.

 

Not meaning to offend anyone 'out in the sticks' - but new works seem to be very poorly attended when they do them. Without a subsidy they wouldn't be able to do them at all.

 

As for the rebrand, well, I guess it had to be done with a change at the top, but as with most of these things, it costs a fortune for little effect in my mind. Look at the Olympic '2012' symbol - there were loads done better by school chidren in a newspaper competition thatn that 'thing' - and that cost £400k + I believe. Don't think ENB's new logo would have cost quite that much (I hope!), but everything got changed, so who knows.

[Jan McNulty]

I've got no facts but perhaps some of the rebranding could have been done by "in kind services" - for example look at the publicity generated not only for the company but also for Vivienne Westwood.

 

"Not meaning to offend anyone 'out in the sticks' - but new works seem to be very poorly attended when they do them. Without a subsidy they wouldn't be able to do them at all." - Dave not at all - we are a bunch of philistines - it's a well known fact!  BRB no longer do mixed programmes up North and NB very rarely do them except in the small theatre in their own home.  I am lucky that I am able to travel to see them.

 

Going back to the photographs - I loved them online but really didn't like the flyers and then I loved them on the programme!

 

I think with any rebranding you have to give it some time to see if it is working.

[dollyry]

Also in regards to the point being made about British dancers, Laurretta Summerscales seems to be doing rather well for herself in the company. Okay she is currently in the artist ranks however she was picked by previous AD Wayne Eagling to join the company from her second year at ENBS and she is making her Odile/Odette debut at the RAH in June. Therefore, its clear you could assume she has a bright future ahead of her. Max Westwell and Nancy Osbaldeston are two other British examples with the latter being named this years Emerging Dancer.

 

I'm definitely in the camp that says ENB deserves their funding.

 

In regards to the new image I agree with those who say the images have perhaps not been truly reflective of what they should truly represent. I do have a friend who worked London Fashion Week and after seeing the Pam Hogg show booked tickets for the triple bill. I think physically getting themselves out there as much as possible could be used to great effectiveness.

[Jan McNulty]

Welcome to the Forum Dollyry.  We look forward to hearing more from you.

[Ian Macmillan]

Lauretta Summerscales?  I think you mean the 'new Darcey":

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/dream-role-for-the-new-darcey-bussell-8594495.html

[chrischris]

I got back from work today and there was an A5 sized leaflet advertising ENB Swan Lake at the albert hall underneath the letter box, so that's a pretty good development. I've never had a flyer from ENB before and it's made me look in to dates.

[Anna C]

Lauretta Summerscales?  I think you mean the 'new Darcey":

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/dream-role-for-the-new-darcey-bussell-8594495.html

I saw that on ENB's Facebook page earlier. Calling British dancers "The new Darcey" is as bad as calling any boy dancer "the next Billy Elliott"! Grrrrr.

 

Did I read it correctly - it sounded as though Lauretta learned the part despite not originally being cast in it? Risky....

[Pas de Quatre]

And of course Lauretta is the only British girl to have gained a place at the Prix de Lausanne for quite a few years. It is two or three years ago that she went, and although she didn't get into the final, it is a real achievement to be given a place at all.

[Bluebird]

And of course Lauretta is the only British girl to have gained a place at the Prix de Lausanne for quite a few years. It is two or three years ago that she went, and although she didn't get into the final, it is a real achievement to be given a place at all.

 

Nancy Osbaldeston (also British and also trained at ENBS) not only gained a place at the Prix de Lausanne but  succeeded in getting into the final in 2008.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Bluebird

[Pas de Quatre]

Oops - slipped my mind!

[capybara]

It strikes me that there is an unprecendented level of discussion about ENB on balletcoforum at the moment with some eight topics active over the last week alone. Let's hope that all this interest converts into strong support for the Company.

[dollyry]

I saw that on ENB's Facebook page earlier. Calling British dancers "The new Darcey" is as bad as calling any boy dancer "the next Billy Elliott"! Grrrrr.

 

Did I read it correctly - it sounded as though Lauretta learned the part despite not originally being cast in it? Risky....

 

I agree, it would be nice if people could just have their own identities without any comparisons having to be made. The male dancers being called "the next Billy Elliot" annoys me even more though. 

 

It does sound that way but something makes me think it must be a misquotation. How on earth could she learn the part and then just magically be cast in it? I don't see them deciding to give someone a shot at something just because they learnt it. 

[Ian Macmillan]

Dolly: I'd be somewhat surprised if she had not learned most of the major pdd at ENBS and, as a dancer wanting to progress, no doubt she will have been paying particular attention to all that the Principals have been doing in the performances in which she has participated.  Thus, by a couple of months ago, it's likely that she had a very fair idea of the Odette/Odile roles - but she then needed a Director who felt she could do them justice.  It would appear she has found one, and I'm sure she won't disappoint.

[aileen]

Remember that Lauretta performed the Black Swan pdd at the recent Emerging Dancer Awards. I'm sure that, as well as learning the steps for this excerpt, she also had to learn all about the character of Odile and probably the whole of the ballet as well. Tamara seems to be continuing Wayne Eagling's policy of giving young dancers the opportunity to take on lead roles. Shiori and Ksenia have both danced lead roles in the past year and now Lauretta has, arguably, won the biggest prize of all in the form of the role of Odette/Odile. The very best of luck to her.

[Pas de Quatre]

Also, remember that Lauretta has already danced Myrtha in Giselle, which is a very demanding role.  She is obviously being given another chance to prove herself, and hopefully has a bright future with more important roles to come.

[alison]

 

I agree, it would be nice if people could just have their own identities without any comparisons having to be made. The male dancers being called "the next Billy Elliot" annoys me even more though. 

 

 

Laurretta can at best be only the third "next Darcey Bussell".  Lauren Cuthbertson and Melissa Hamilton, at the very least, have both had the misfortune of being christened that too!