ENB's new image

[chrischris]

I've only ever been to narrative ballets at the RB, where every show i've been to has been full house (or it looks that way from where i've been sitting in the gods) so I would too be interested in the answers to A frog's questions about what is considered an acceptable sized audience. I don't know why ENB always stay in the coliseum, but there must be a reason I don't know about.

[Jan McNulty]

Somewhere around 1989 ENB didn't do their then usual season at the Coli.  They went to the Dominion at Tottenham Court Road and, despite a superb programme, absolutely bombed!  I had always assumed that the Coli is a more prestigious theatre that has nearly as much snob value as ROH (to attenders that are not necessarily regulars but like to go to the poshest places!).

 

The trouble with going to smaller theatres is that they tend to have smaller stages and perhaps productions wouldn't fit in them.

[Anna C]

I think part of the point is that they probably weren't aiming for 14-yr old girls already into ballet for this programme. Indeed, I don't think the bill would be suited for children in the slightest!

 

I personally think the name was an excellent choice, along with the advertisement campaign. There was certainly a wider range of people at the Coliseum on Saturday night than I have seen at any ballet since Carbon Life at the ROH. I think it's important to realise that ENB probably weren't aiming for us balletomanes with the ad campaigns!

 

This bill was a great introduction to ballet for newcomers - abstract, narrative and classical all in one evening (in fact, a similar mix to the Carbon Life triple at ROH last year). I know a lot of my friends said they'd prefer to go see this bill than, say, Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty.

Whatever you do, don't let 14 yr olds hear you call them "children"! ;-)

 

Actually, I think my dd would very much have enjoyed "Etudes", and she would have given Petit Mort a go, if only because she knows one of the dancers personally. I don't think she'd have enjoyed Jeune Homme one bit though. :-)

[A frog]

The ROH indeed sells out almost all the story evening-length ballets, the only exception I remember was a run of Manon where the £40-ish range in the amphi was a bit sparse.
I remember the triple bill Ballo della Regina/Live Fire Exercise/DGV being very sparsely populated in the amphi for some of the performances; and if I remember correctly, it was a programme with a 40-ish top price ticket; the problem is not just the price, it is always harder to sell new or rarely performed works.
The ROH might also be better able to hide poor sales with their student stand-by programme, I imagine they have a rather large database, and it allows them to fill the house with discounted tickets with virtually no-one knowing about it.

To divert a little from the original topic, a lot of the problem comes from the perception of ballet and that plenty of people just won't go.
The ROH has every year a performance at heavily discounted prices that can only be attended through a competition in the Sun. I had applied a few years ago (the offer then was to go see Carmen or Mayerling); I had very little hope entering the competition, I ended being able to buy up to 28 tickets, and very close to the deadline, the hall still looked half to two thirds empty, I then found out from a friend who was in the student stand-by programme that it was how they ended filling up the house.
Out of three million Sun readers, they maybe found 2,000 at most who were willing to try to go to the opera or ballet, even with cheap tickets (stalls/grand tier were 20 for ballet and 30 for opera, most of the amphi for less than 10) and the assurance there wouldn't be "poshos" in the house.

To go back on topic, anything ENB is trying to do to broaden its audience and get new people interested should be encouraged.
And maybe they could indeed try to have a few performances somewhere else? I don't know how practical a Sadler's Well season or two a year would be, but there would at least be a decent promotional push for those. Would I be corrected in assuming that the BRB performances at SW are better attended than those at the Coliseum?

[aileen]

ENB has performed at Sadler's Wells. I saw a couple of programmes there in 2009.

[MAB]

ENB has given performances at Sadlers Wells in the past but the seating capacity is only 1,500 compared with 2,350 at the Coliseum.  I know a ballet fan who won't go to the Wells as it is too difficult to get to in her opinion.  The Coliseum is very central though and has terrific sight lines unlike the god-awful ROH.

[Paul Arrowsmith]

I know a ballet fan who won't go to the Wells as it is too difficult to get to in her opinion.  

 

I was struck again at SWells last Saturday that the audience there is distinct - very largely not an audience you see at dance performances elsewhere.

[A frog]

Maybe they should look into performing at Sadlers Well for the more modern triple bills then. Tamara Rojo seems to want to push the programmation in that direction, and it unfortunately looks unlikely these programmes would fill the Coliseum any day soon, I'm not even sure Ecstasy and Death would have filled SW.

I can also see a few advantages to performing at SW, first of all, the programmes would be included in the brochures, that would certainly be an improvement on the current situation. Compared to RB or companies performing at SW, I have to actively seek out when ENB is performing, I can't be the only person for whom this has translated as poor attendance.
I don't know how the ticket prices are set, but as they tend to be more or less the same in any given venue regardless of the company, I assume this would also solve one of the common complaints as they would end up being slightly cheaper, I have no doubt this would translate as a shortfall in revenue for ENB, but I assume renting out SW is cheaper than the Coliseum, and given how empty and discounted E&D was, it cannot be much worse than the current situation.
And most importantly, part of the SW audience is rather prejudiced against ballet (I know a few, they will for instance happily attend a Random Dance performance but have never seen one of McGregor's piece at the ROH), but they might be interested in where Tamara Rojo is taking the company. Kylian or Ek (with whom I believe she would like to keep working) are probably more of a draw to the NDT/Rambert audience than the families coming to see the Tchaikovsky ballets.

The Coliseum is more central, but I'm sure it drives a few people away too.

[aileen]

I have wondered whether ENB should use Sadler's Wells for its mixed bills and harder to sell full length works. Yes, Sadler's Wells is smaller but it must be much cheaper to hire. Does ENB make more money from a half-full Coliseum (perhaps with discounted tickets) or from a full Sadler's Wells? There is the consideration of the stage, though. I don't know how much smaller the stage is at Sadler's Wells. A big problem for ENB is that it is very reliant on the Coliseum to market its productions as the company does not have access to details of past attenders. Sadler's Wells is very assiduous about sending out brochures and e-mails about forthcoming productions. The same cannot be said about the Coliseum which is only really interested in marketing ENO (I receive many e-mails about ENO even though I have never been to one of their performances). In January there was no publicity about BRB's, the Mikhailovsky's or ENB's Spring visits to the Coliseum. I don't think that I received anything through the post either although I might have received something about Aladdin (from BRB?). Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago I received a Boston Ballet leaflet through the post (from whom?) and on one of my visits to the Coli last week someone (who?) was handing out the same leaflet to people as they were leaving the theatre. I'm pleased to see that someone is actively trying to market Boston Ballet. It's very expensive for them to come over to the UK and with the Bolshoi coming three weeks later it is going to be hard to sell their triple bills.

[Jan McNulty]

ENB is a touring company so most of their sets should be adaptable to a variety of stage sizes.  Anything they have previously performed at RFH and maybe reviving should also fit in SW.

 

I believe the Coli is a very expensive theatre to hire.

[aileen]

A frog, we were thinking along the same lines! I think that a programme of contemporary work - Kylian, Ek, Galili, Schechter, Pitie- would sell at Sadler's Wells. San Francisco Ballet's run was almost sold out and I believe that Cedar Lake Contemporary Ballet's performances sold fairly well too.

[alison]

After all, even the RB every so often has to discount their triple bills and regularly doesn't sell them out.

Not very recently regularly: I remember a few of us getting caught on the hop for the last two or three bills because they sold out unexpectedly quickly!  It's sometimes a bit unpredictable.

 

Perhaps to reach out to a new audience ENB should consider appearing in some of the smaller theatres, both in London and outside.  Ticket prices would be cheaper and there would be more of a buzz with a full house.

ENB used to do a small-theatres tour some years ago, with suitably-sized pieces, but have stopped.  I suspect finance may have been an issue.  I don't think small theatres tend to yield the sort of margins they need.  Plus the venues were often far from ideal.

 

Somewhere around 1989 ENB didn't do their then usual season at the Coli.  They went to the Dominion at Tottenham Court Road and, despite a superb programme, absolutely bombed!  I had always assumed that the Coli is a more prestigious theatre that has nearly as much snob value as ROH (to attenders that are not necessarily regulars but like to go to the poshest places!).

 

Yes, it was 1989, and yes, "bombed" was putting it mildly.  I saw a heart-breakingly empty performance of Napoli. A great shame, because they were a very interesting company at that time, and the RB was a bit in the doldrums.  ENB have worked hard to get a foot in the door at the Coliseum, and I doubt they'd want to abandon it, particularly if it involved going back to the Festival Hall with all its problems.

 

The ROH has every year a performance at heavily discounted prices that can only be attended through a competition in the Sun. I had applied a few years ago (the offer then was to go see Carmen or Mayerling); I had very little hope entering the competition, I ended being able to buy up to 28 tickets, and very close to the deadline, the hall still looked half to two thirds empty, I then found out from a friend who was in the student stand-by programme that it was how they ended filling up the house.

Out of three million Sun readers, they maybe found 2,000 at most who were willing to try to go to the opera or ballet, even with cheap tickets (stalls/grand tier were 20 for ballet and 30 for opera, most of the amphi for less than 10) and the assurance there wouldn't be "poshos" in the house.

 

I was under the impression that Carmen sold just fine, and it was Mayerling that was the problem, presumably because it was unknown/family-unfriendly (we really need to counter the impression that ballet is primarily for children!)/18-rated.  I remember discovering that I could have got amphi tickets for £1 on the day, had I not already shelled out for a stalls seat.

A big problem for ENB is that it is very reliant on the Coliseum to market its productions as the company does not have access to details of past attenders. Sadler's Wells is very assiduous about sending out brochures and e-mails about forthcoming productions. The same cannot be said about the Coliseum which is only really interested in marketing ENO

 

This is very true, and must be frustrating.  I wonder if the situation is the same with the Royal Albert Hall?  Still, in this day and age there is really very little to stop interested persons from signing up to mailing lists via the Internet.

Edited April 22, 2013 by alison
Edited because the software made a real hash of the quotes first time around!

[GTL]

...The ROH might also be better able to hide poor sales with their student stand-by programme, I imagine they have a rather large database, and it allows them to fill the house with discounted tickets with virtually no-one knowing about it....

Yes, I've been aware of this happening every so often when the Stalls are full with a very large number of student-age occupants for programmes that showed online the previous night with many unsold seats.   I hope it's generating the full-fare audiences of the future.

 

ENB has given performances at Sadlers Wells in the past but the seating capacity is only 1,500 compared with 2,350 at the Coliseum.  I know a ballet fan who won't go to the Wells as it is too difficult to get to in her opinion.  The Coliseum is very central though and has terrific sight lines unlike the god-awful ROH.

 

Sadlers Wells does not have good transport links: a few buses and one small Underground station at Angel.   Remember what happened to the Royal Ballet when they had to relocate to Hammersmith during the ROH redevelopment:  many of the audience did not follow.   Which reminds me, during the Coliseum redevelopment (2003 or 2004?) ENB did a week in mid-summer at the ROH:   I went to a Saturday matinée and it was pretty empty but with the new ENB image the ROH could be sold to sponsors as a more glamorous venue if the economics are better than the Coliseum.

Although it's even smaller with about 1,000 seats, perhaps the second Sadlers Wells house, the Peacock Theatre, would suit for the more adventurous stuff.  It's much more central in Portugal Street, just 5 minutes east of Bow Street, it's used by the Trocs on their London visits and the sightlines are fine.  

[Bruce]

It seems like Rojo is doing well in re-branding the ENB and bringing in a younger audience. I just hope this can translate in to bringing in a large audience, as it appears that with this bill the ENB has failed once again to fill out the coliseum. Hopefully that will change over time.

 

Well the Coli didn't fill a year ago with an old audience either I'd note!  But there is more of a buzz re ENB in the media and Rojo is out there talking it all up at every opportunity. Good for her and the company.

[aileen]

Yes, Tamara has been working very hard trying to get more media coverage for ENB. As well as appearing in many newspaper articles she's been interviewed on BBC 6 O'Clock News and on Radio 4's Front Row. I don't know whether the re-branding will work. It's too early to say as re-branding takes a while to sink into public consciousness, I think. She is trying to appeal to new audiences and it matters less what regular ballet-goers think of the new image as we will go to see ENB anyway if the programme appeals (and we won't go if it doesn't!)

 

Someone commented on the different "types" of audience at the different venues. I'm not sure if it's as clear cut as that. The audience at R&J last week seemed to include a lot of older people, but there were quite a few older people at the Coli as well for the E&D programme. Actually at the Coli I sat next to a very young teenage couple for whom it was their first visit to a ballet. They certainly seemed to enjoy the first two pieces, or at least find them interesting. The girl attended weekly ballet lessons (I admired her bravery at going into Freeds before the matinee to buy her first pair of pointe shoes without a parent!) and the boy had bought the tickets for her as a Valentine's Day present. What did strike me was that they found the long intervals tiresome, as did I. When you first start going to the ballet it does take you by surprise how little dancing there seems to be before a long interval intervenes (and there's usually a second interval as well!)

[Pas de Quatre]

Yes the Peacock Theatre is the sort of venue I meant.  BRB has had success over the last few years with its smaller tours, when the main company splits and the two different halves tour with different programmes to smaller regional theatres.  I would have thought ENB could so something similar.  Does the Arts Council still dictate what a company can and cannot do, or does a company have more autonomy these days to decide how to spend their budget?

[chrischris]

I think the Arts Council stipulates that ENB has to tour, but i'm not sure how detailed their specifications are.

[Erica]

How about The Barbican? It has larger stage and pit for the orchestra…

[Bruce Wall]

If Mohamed won't come to the mountain .... 

 

I think the Coliseum is a wonderful venue ... and I remember it was oh, so very hard won for the LFB/ENB.  It gives a sense of occasion to the attendance.  Rightfully so.  Would you be doing Etudes at The Peacock?

 

I realise that there were a lot of empty seats ... Myself I think - in terms of effective re-branding - that you should go out and literally GIVE seats to groups that would not otherwise come. It seems to me - rather than the venue - that if you get what you are actually terming 'the brand' in then you will have a head start in getting 'the brand' - and/or their friends - to return.  The venue too could be key for some of that admiration.  That would not I think be an easy sell with, say, the Peacock.  The empty seats last week in the Coliseum were just that - empty ... as is ANY marketing without a direct implicit focus .... In the end ANY emptiness must speak for itself.  It too is, I fear, elementary.  There's a substantial part of me that feels that those seats needn't have gone to waste.  I know it is a difficult task ... but it is, I think, obtainable.  Perhaps this is something that Ms. Rojo should speak more openly about in interviews.  Let us know of the efforts being made by her and her team .... and not just saying that she is 'bringing sex back to the ballet' .... In good ballet did it EVER leave?  Certainly Balanchine didn't think so ... nor did Ashton ... nor did MacMillan and, dare I say it, nor do any of those brave people worldwide who are reaching out in an attempt to celebrate the artform we all love so much.

 

Oh, and please NOT the Barbican.  Horrid, souless place that is most ashamedly is .... and the transport there is MUCH worse than, say, Sadler's Wells.  The Coliseum is a PRIZE!!  It, too, needs to be cherished.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Meunier

[DavidW]

I agree that the Coliseum is a great venue but I don't know if it is right for ENB. However, all potential venues are flawed so I guess it is up to them to make the most of it!

 

One thing I can't get my head around is why ENB don't actively promote their student (and concession?) standby tickets. When you are struggling to fill the theatre on a Saturday night then letting people know you are offering £15 tickets to get bums on seats should be a big priority. I've seen ENB a few times and had no idea of these tickets, nor did any of my (mainly London-based) ballet-going student friends.

 

They have a much better standby scheme than the ROH, offering any spare tickets to any performance with spare seats (the ROH have only offered student standby tickets to at most 5 performances this season). As the students fit the demographic they are wanting to attract maybe they should advertise this more on their posters or in student newspapers - I looked around their new website and couldn't find any mention of these tickets at all. 

[Anna C]

Does ENB do schools' matinees?

[aileen]

I don't know if it was a schools' matinee as such, but there were several groups of school children at a matinee performance which I attended during ENB's Christmas season at the Coliseum. I know that there are schools matinees for primary school age children at the ROH. It's a bit of a bugbear of mine that once children are at secondary school this type of outing doesn't seem to be on offer, although I think that Sadler's Wells may organise schools matinees for teenagers. The timing may not have been great for some teenagers sitting important public exams, but I think that the recent ENB programme would have had quite a lot of appeal, offering three very contrasting pieces of which at least one would almost certainly have been of interest.

[bangorballetboy]

I know that there are schools matinees for primary school age children at the ROH. It's a bit of a bugbear of mine that once children are at secondary school this type of outing doesn't seem to be on offer, although I think that Sadler's Wells may organise schools matinees for teenagers.

 

I don't know what gave you that impression about ROH schools' matinées, as they are open to pupils aged between 8 and 18.

[Jan McNulty]

Let's not forget that it is not only ENB that can have difficulty attracting audiences!

[aileen]

Bangorballetboy, they may be open to children up to age 18, but in my experience secondary schools rarely organise this type of outing. My bugbear is with the schools, not with the ballet companies, orchestras etc. Primary schools seem to feel that they have a responsibility to expose their pupils to "high" culture and will organise an outing for a particular year group or for children who, say, learn a musical instrument, but secondary schools do not seem to have the same level of enthusiasm for this. It's partly down to timetabling, of course, but I note that afternoons and whole days can be given over to sporting events without anyone complaining. And, of course, secondary school age children are old enough to attend evening performances without becoming too tired.

[billboyd]

Maybe, the behaviour of many secondary school pupils (in London) is a factor. 

[Bluebird]

I agree that the Coliseum is a great venue but I don't know if it is right for ENB. However, all potential venues are flawed so I guess it is up to them to make the most of it!

 

One thing I can't get my head around is why ENB don't actively promote their student (and concession?) standby tickets. When you are struggling to fill the theatre on a Saturday night then letting people know you are offering £15 tickets to get bums on seats should be a big priority. I've seen ENB a few times and had no idea of these tickets, nor did any of my (mainly London-based) ballet-going student friends.

 

They have a much better standby scheme than the ROH, offering any spare tickets to any performance with spare seats (the ROH have only offered student standby tickets to at most 5 performances this season). As the students fit the demographic they are wanting to attract maybe they should advertise this more on their posters or in student newspapers - I looked around their new website and couldn't find any mention of these tickets at all. 

 

ENB is not the only company that offers concessionary stand-by tickets at the Coliseum.  In my experience they are offered by all companies that appear there.  Stand-bys are available for Students, Senior Citizens (60+), Income Support recipients…etc. The price may vary.  Some companies charge £15 for all areas of the auditorium.  Other companies charge much more.  I don’t know the current rates but, in the past, it has been £30 or £35 for the stalls, £20 or £25 for the Dress Circle and £10 or £15 for the Upper Circle.

 

As far as I know, this stand-by policy is only for the Coliseum performances.  When they appear at Sadler's Wells they follow the policy there - i.e. I believe that the stand-by policy depends on the venue rather than the company.  If anybody knows otherwise, please let us know.

 

I've pasted in below the section on stand-bys which can be found on the ENO website.  The prices apply to ENO opera performances. As I've already said, for ballet performances, they vary from company to company.

 

 

"Stand-bys and concessions (£15-£35) may be available 3 hours before a performance at the management’s discretion, with the exception of disabled patrons and their carers who can book stand-bys from 10am on the day of performance by joining our Access Scheme. When available, stand-bys will only be offered to:

·                                 Senior citizens

·                                 Students

·                                 Income Support recipients

·                                 Under-16s

·                                 Westminster Rescard holders

Concessions are available in advance to under-16s and members of the Access Scheme and Access All Arias scheme only. Please note, children under 16 must be accompanied by an adult."

 

edited to correct punctuation

Edited April 23, 2013 by Bluebird

[capybara]

In addition to the '3 hours before the performance' availability of Standbys, ENB usually offers them from 12 noon for the performance that evening.

 

ENB, BRB and companies from abroad often do not decide until the day whether or not to sell Standbys.

[A frog]

One day I'll look into quotes, but for the moment, I'll just follow up on some points raised.

 

I've just had a look at the ENB website, I couldn't find a link offering me to join any mailing list whatsoever, there were links to FB and Twitter, but info is so much more easily lost there than in an email (or flyer/brochure), they really should fix that.

 

I also found out that the London run of Le Corsaire in Jan 14 is already on sale (has been for a couple of weeks), the link takes you to ENO website, but there is nothing on the ENO home page under ballet & dance which I assume is where most people would look, another little detail that points to shoddy work from ENO/Coliseum, and from ENB too to be fair, I'm surprised they haven't yet complained to have this fixed.

 

They however seem to have reacted on pricing, top price is now only 55, and the seating plan has more price bands. There are also a few ticket deals (the most interesting being 2 for 1 tickets for under-30's), but once again, all this information is only available to those who will actively make the effort to look it up, my guess is that they are already very likely to buy tickets.

 

I'm pretty sure Bluebird is right, stand-by offers depend on the venue.

 

And I don't think they should advertise those more than they already are, it's all very good to expand the audience and have a full hall, but they should be careful to make sure people will pay for tickets; you won't sit in the stalls or front of the dress circle, but normally priced tickets can be found for 20 and cheaper, I've never sat in the balcony, but sightlines were good anywhere else, and I understand they are there too.
The last thing they (or any company) want is what is currently happening to ENO, it is just assumed that the shows won't sell out, and a sizable portion of the audience now waits for discounted tickets.

 

I'm sure these are all points they are aware of, but I hope someone from there is reading this thread (I know the ROH would), they have a free focus group of there core audience right here.

[billboyd]

Top price for Le Corsaire is £55 for first night only. It is then £74.

[Anna C]

 

Bangorballetboy, they may be open to children up to age 18, but in my experience secondary schools rarely organise this type of outing. My bugbear is with the schools, not with the ballet companies, orchestras etc. Primary schools seem to feel that they have a responsibility to expose their pupils to "high" culture and will organise an outing for a particular year group or for children who, say, learn a musical instrument, but secondary schools do not seem to have the same level of enthusiasm for this. It's partly down to timetabling, of course, but I note that afternoons and whole days can be given over to sporting events without anyone complaining. And, of course, secondary school age children are old enough to attend evening performances without becoming too tired.

Fortunately, dd's school offers a lot of theatre trips already and they also saw the schools' matinée of La Bohème at the ROH last year. Now I just need to persuade them to try a ballet! But for year 10 and up I agree that a matinée of the recent triple at the Coli would probably have been interesting.

[A frog]

Thanks Billboyd, I started doubting my sanity as I was pretty sure the date I checked wasn't the first night. It seems that they have different prices for the weekend, which is an ENO policy as well.

 

Spannerandponny: Le Corsaire has school offers at the Coliseum, £8.00 a ticket.

[aileen]

I agree with A frog that it is most important that an invitation to join a mailing list (e-mail as well as on paper) is prominently displayed, preferably in several places on the site. A lot of people don't want to join Facebook or have a constant stream of communications via Twitter. If the new MD or anyone else who is on the management side of ENB is reading this PLEASE, PLEASE address the marketing and publicity shortcomings which we have identified on this thread asap. There really is no excuse.