Do you need extra classes on top of full time Vocational School (lower school) ?

[BalletMummy123]

Hi!

 

 We are looking at offers and considering full time vocational school for our daughter next September (going into Year 7).

 

We seem to see a lot of people doing extras such as associates, workshops and competitions over the weekends and the holidays. 
 

My worry is will my DD also need to do this to ‘keep up’? 
If she was lucky enough to go away the hope was she wouldn’t need to dance at weekends or holidays so she could spend more time with us, but I fear she may need to do this to keep up and improve at the rate needed. 
 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated ☺️

[Raquelle]

Hello!

A lot of vocational schools do not allow extra training such as associates on weekends or competitions. Most vocational students do intensives during school holidays (the breaks are long...9 weeks for summer, so it's a long time if you don't do anything), although my dd's school would encourage you not to do too much extra training - we would only do a week or two during the Summer. You also need permission for extra training....hope this helps x 

[Ruby Foo]

There is no way of answering your question with any certainty.

 

Firstly, vocational schools work because they can organise academic work in between training. There's no travelling unless you're a day girl.
But there's a lot that doesn't always function well in vocational training. There's always disparity and inconsistency between teachers and in how worthwhile they feel a particular student is, in terms of attention, help and corrections. There are often favourites and, if your child is having a particularly difficult year for whatever reason, then they can often be passed over. Even derided. There are also inconsistencies in 'how good' the teaching is.
Your child may have a year where they are struggling physically or mentally or both. Where they need time to work on a physical issue such as strength or building back from injury. At these times they may feel that the support from the school is adequate or the opposite - lacking on all fronts. This may lead to to their self confidence being eroded and a spiral of anxiety and depression setting in.  Everyone has a different experience depending on many factors but this pattern I've described above, seems very common.

At these times, having an outside/ independent perspective can be truly valuable. It helps to have a fresh understanding and someone who is most definitely on your side who can work on issues you maybe don't have time to work on in class. It can build confidence and self esteem if these things have been eroded by the school.

There are pupils, of course, who have sailed through without too much outside involvement who have found everything they need within the vocational school. They are definitely in the minority.

[Ruby Foo]

I would also like to add that most teachers at vocational schools are excellent and have been chosen for that very reason.

However, it's still like buying a 'bundle' of say leotards, from eBay. You're pretty certain most will be nice and suitable, but there may be one or two you wouldn't choose to wear.

Its very different to having a teacher you have specifically chosen because of their credentials, because you've been to their lessons and they are fulfilling and worthwhile ( and enjoyable) and because they continue to validate and prove themselves by the work they do with their students. 
It's much harder to ascertain this with every teacher in a vocational school and so you are left to trust the establishment.
Which is why, in some years, students will look for ways to get what they need.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

Based on how it is now, if a DC wants to be competitive, then yes (especially for females, I think). The ballet world has massively gone more intense recently, full time students joining competitions (with or without their school’s knowledge), having private lessons, etc. Schools used to be stricter about outside training but perhaps not anymore, based on what I’ve observed in the last few years. It will cost A LOT to keep up, just look at all the posts about intensive offers and then check how much these intensives cost. It’s a personal decision, some families would rather spend that amount on a family holiday and some prioritise 5 days of training. That’s just a small aspect of the keeping up young dancers now have to keep in mind. Add in privates and regular physio sessions, it all adds up to an eye watering financial commitment, which may or may not pay off in the end. 

[Kerfuffle]

Although they can be a lovely experience summer intensives are expensive and I’m not convinced that they are necessary. There are a lot of young dancers (particularly from abroad)  going from one to another and it causes FOMO in the less well off.  I think a lot of the appeal for them is listing them on Instagram! If your child is feeling insecure then I think money is better spent on private lessons with a teacher who can rebuild confidence and work on any specific issues. Ruby Foo is right that you can’t choose who teaches your child at vocational school and you tend to get good years and bad years. 

[Millicent]

2 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Although they can be a lovely experience summer intensives are expensive and I’m not convinced that they are necessary. There are a lot of young dancers (particularly from abroad)  going from one to another and it causes FOMO in the less well off.  I think a lot of the appeal for them is listing them on Instagram! If your child is feeling insecure then I think money is better spent on private lessons with a teacher who can rebuild confidence and work on any specific issues. Ruby Foo is right that you can’t choose who teaches your child at vocational school and you tend to get good years and bad years. 

I agree with every word of this. I think a lot of the competitiveness is self-inflicted from intstagram FOMO. A week at an intensive is not going to be the difference between getting into a dance company/school or not. And some of the bigger name intensives don't actually have much in the way of individual teaching or corrections. It's just an experience, not a training necessity.

 

Over the summer, most dancers would benefit more from a few private lessons with a good teacher and doing some fun cross-training that they enjoy doing, like swimming or yoga. And most of all, enjoy being a kid and spending time with their family.

 

I think that above all the weekends and holidays should be a time to get some much-needed balance against the daily intensity of vocational school. Rest, fun and family time is so important. Sometimes we need to remember that these are children, not ballet machines.

[WhereToNow]

It’s definitely a personal choice.

My DD attended a 10hr a week programme for about 4yrs (age10-14) Rarely did anything extra.  The odd Festival comp, masterclass or intensive when we could afford it.  Never did ballet exams here either nor joined an associate programme. She still successfully auditioned for Yr10 entry at a vocational school.  Again only did the odd masterclass during half term.  She is now in their 6th form.  I am not saying we did it the right way, but money definitely meant we had limitations.  You can only go by your own intuition/knowledge about your child your financial position.  I would definitely say that the younger years have it harder with social media, but you just need to focus on your own path.  There is definitely more than one way to navigate this whole process. 
Good luck

[Kerfuffle]

Social media is to be ignored as much as possible although easier said than done. It’s easy to be intimidated by carefully edited short bits of film demonstrating their best pirouettes (often one offs)  and distorting extensions but these really aren’t ballet  just tricks. You can only really tell dance quality, musicality and whether someone is worth watching with a longer video and few dancers post these, that takes guts! So all we have is lists of letters (YAGP etc) summer intensive years, associates etc. In the end when you audition it’s what they see in front of them not social media that gets you in.

[Colman]

8 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Social media is to be ignored as much as possible although easier said than done

The camera *always* lies. 

[Peanut68]

Time again? Not really sure vocational training is at all necessary. If you had funds to do all the extras (that it seems most voc kids now do on top of vocational training anyhow) then I’d do those but keep kid home.

We actually had a relatively good lower school experience (in part possibly because school was super strict at not allowing additional outside training at weekends - no associate schemes allowed - though there were still those super pushy parents who ‘secretly’ took kids out for private coaching at weekends or day pupils who danced yet more in the evenings!)

Suitable Summer schools were allowed only with sought permission.

This - thank goodness I now realise - meant we probably saved thousands on what I realise now other families with kids in vocational training were spending extra! It also - I feel - have a safer balance giving kids necessary rest time & fun time at weekends/school holidays.  I saw other kids at other schools doing so much extra…but I also saw them having more injuries & seeming to have much more limited social lives too. 
At our offspring’s lower school the days of the dreaded Instagram were relatively new (& thank goodness no National TikTok obsession then I don’t think!). 
But boy has that skewed things. I now see in the young ballet world so much more body dismorphia, so much more anxiety, so much more unhealthy ‘wishful thinking’ (even envy/outright jealousy & bitterness!) -  all mostly caused exactly as others say here from FOMO:- from seeing ‘what everyone else is doing/achieving’ on instagram.

Oh if only that (faked/edited/airbrushed) wheel could be un-invented! 
And definitely think both lower & upper school providers all massively need more scrutiny & regulations & outside ‘auditing’ of their training & education provisions & pastoral care. 
 

Edited December 8, 2024 by Peanut68

[Macy1]

My daughter is full time vocational and only does one intensive- usually in the long summer break. She also sometimes goes to pineapple to do a class she finds interesting in other school hols but we don't do anything outside of school in term time

Edited December 13, 2024 by Macy1