RBO - offers unfair to many

[Peanut68]

I hope ok - I’ve copied a post I made in another subject specific thread & created a new one to bring more folk into the discussion in pricing at ROH.

 

 I think this changing prices/gifting seats/offering offers to hand picked selection of people is a huge issue. Is it part of the whole ‘dynamic pricing’ debacle that has started to infiltrate so many areas of life from band gig tickets to train travel? Thing is, savvy folk may well say to themselves…”hmmmm…..I could buy now but I’m thinking this might not be a top draw show like Nutcracker or Swan Lake tends to be….so, just maybe if I leave off buying a bit longer the powers that be may feel a need to discount prices to boost sales”. Now, of course, they risk not getting preferred seating selection (hence people race to buy the minute the most audience popular ballets sell so quick to not miss out) but on lesser known/new works it is common for sales to be slow…. So, nothing to lose? 
And then the infuriation of just how they send out specific offers….today I find myself getting an email from RBO offering me 15% if I buy for 3 performances in one buying slot. But only off Orchestra Stall seats. I’d hazard a guess here that if a regular can afford to often purchase theatre stalls seats they are not really going to see a huge benefit in a 15% discount. It is quite likely not going to swing a buying decision - a £100 ticket is a big decision for many of us but so to is an £85 ticket! I’d say that £15 off is a ‘nice to have’  - it perhaps equates to glass of wine or an ice cream & a programme - but I don’t think it swings a buying decision . However, offering me 15% off 3 shows including sections with cheaper priced seats could actually swing it a little…. Getting 3 £30 seats for £26.50 each saves me in total just £10.50 but it would give me a warm cuddly feeling that my patronage of ROH is appreciated & is important & hey, that’s one drink at one show free!!
Who on earth makes the discount decisions at ROH? 

(It’s a bit like tax breaks that only benefit the already rich - no insult to anyone here intended, just an analogy - as afterall, discounts affect the bottom line of money in & this is all part of the conversation when seeking Arts Council - so taxpayers money - funding).

Look after your little folk RBO/ROH…. 
Try proving correctly, try incentivising all equally with offers, I’d say it’s way better to offer deals for ‘early bird’ purchasing as surely we are all a little like lemmings:- if we see sales are good for an unknown show, I reckon many more of us will take the plunge & buy a ticket too! 
I get a sense that too many ‘business wizz consultants’ are being employed/outsourced to…. I bet the costa if these folk & their technology far exceeds any of the savings these rubbish offers actually achieve….
 

[zxDaveM]

This is the UK - the privilged will always attract the discounts and freebies

[Rob S]

39 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

 

 

Look after your little folk RBO/ROH…. 
Try proving correctly, try incentivising all equally with offers, I’d say it’s way better to offer deals for ‘early bird’ purchasing as surely we are all a little like lemmings
 

I’m sure we all want the tickets to be cheaper, whether it’s a £190 ticket to be £175 or a £14 ticket to be £12 but it’s always been the case that early birds pay the going rate to have peace of mind that they’ve got a ticket, ideally sitting in their favourite area and they do that knowing if it’s not selling well that there may be discounts to incentive people to try something they might not usually go for. The ROH are so aware of that situation they offer you the chance to pay thousands a year to buy even earlier than the early birds!! 

Edited October 26, 2024 by Rob S

[Sophoife]

The Australian Ballet is doing this too: "buy two A Reserve tickets for $80 each" (usually over $200 each), "buy A Reserve for $99", "40 tickets at $40" ballots...

 

It's dropping excrement from a great height on to the subscribers like me, who purchase their tickets IN OCTOBER for the following year.

 

These special offers are at a humongous discount and they DO NOT CARE. They will lose their subscribers, because why spend $200 when you can get it for more than 50% off?

 

They will also lose a lot of money because a large percentage of their income is from box office. Short-sighted much?

[Linnzi5]

I think it depends on your financial circumstances, if certain seats and casts, (and the security of getting them ) are things that are important to you, and whether you’re prepared to take a risk and wait, as to whether these sorts of offers/multiple buy discounts are advantageous/liked by people.
 

Rarely, have I ever been tempted to purchase significantly discounted seats at the last minute - I’ve done it several times to see other casts and been very happy about it - but those were happy extras. Mostly, they seem to be offered to me when they are performances of ballets (or operas) that I have tickets to already or I don’t want to see. 
 

I buy stalls seats, so, as I buy when booking opens and buy multiple tickets, the 15% off is of value to me. Of course, that isn’t the case for others and I agree it’s unfair that lower-priced tickets don’t have that discount as well. It wouldn’t make a difference to me but it would to many others and I like things to be equal and fair. 
 

i don’t pretend to understand RB’s seating price strategies (in terms of discounts or individual seating prices). Often, it seems quite random to me and bizarre. Then again, I do not have the knowledge to understand about profit margins and how many seats are sold etc. As for marketing? I find the employed strategies (or lack thereof) even more bizarre! 

[Sophoife]

Certain casts are definitely important to me, but AusBallet doesn't release even principal casting until a week or so (often less) before each block of performances starts, which means we subscribers are buying in the dark. We are treated as mushrooms.

 

Not to mention that, like many Australian subscribers, I don't live in Melbourne or Sydney so adding extra performances means adding extra hotel nights. Melbourne this is manageable (just) but reasonable Sydney hotels are three times the cost.

[JaneHartley]

I actually think the annoying element of the 15% off offer, is that they exclude ballets to make it deliberately difficult or less worthwhile. For me this makes it much more difficult to use because I need to want to go to three separate ballets all within the same booking period all within the offer. This basically never happens. 

 

The RBO pricing model in general cannot surely be working. In 2024, just for opera they have had to give out general public offers of between 25-40% off on La Traviata, Marriage of Figaro, Fidelio, Tales of Hoffmann, Cosi Fan Tutte, Tosca, Lucia di Lammermoor amongst others. These include some of their most popular operas, and this doesn't include the huge numbers of tickets they are selling for £30 to those who qualify for Young ROH, and any other private offers they hand out.

[oncnp]

6 minutes ago, JaneHartley said:

I actually think the annoying element of the 15% off offer, is that they exclude ballets to make it deliberately difficult or less worthwhile. For me this makes it much more difficult to use because I need to want to go to three separate ballets all within the same booking period all within the offer. This basically never happens. 

 

 

I have booked 3 tickets for the same ballet (Cinderella, different dates but I think it is the number of tickets that matters) and received the 15% .

 

Stalls only is an issue for most though 

[LinMM]

Especially as some seats in the front of the Balcony are as expensive as some in the Stalls. 
But agree other areas should be offered some discount even if a bit less than 15 per cent off. 

[Dawnstar]

19 minutes ago, oncnp said:

Stalls only is an issue for most though 

 

It certainly is the way the prices have gone up in the last 3 or 4 seasons. Back when package booking allowed 18% off the lowest stalls prices were such that with the discount I could just about afford them. Now the prices are so high that 15% off still leaves the lowest stalls price for Alice & Cinderella at £139, which is getting on for double what I'd be prepared to pay for those ballets.

[Linnzi5]

45 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

Certain casts are definitely important to me, but AusBallet doesn't release even principal casting until a week or so (often less) before each block of performances starts, which means we subscribers are buying in the dark. We are treated as mushrooms.

 

Not to mention that, like many Australian subscribers, I don't live in Melbourne or Sydney so adding extra performances means adding extra hotel nights. Melbourne this is manageable (just) but reasonable Sydney hotels are three times the cost.

Wow! That seems really unfair! A week before?! 

[Peanut68]

2 hours ago, Sophoife said:

The Australian Ballet is doing this too: "buy two A Reserve tickets for $80 each" (usually over $200 each), "buy A Reserve for $99", "40 tickets at $40" ballots...

 

It's dropping excrement from a great height on to the subscribers like me, who purchase their tickets IN OCTOBER for the following year.

 

These special offers are at a humongous discount and they DO NOT CARE. They will lose their subscribers, because why spend $200 when you can get it for more than 50% off?

 

They will also lose a lot of money because a large percentage of their income is from box office. Short-sighted much?

You mention a ballot…so presumably it’s not a given that you get those rates…. More that you enter the ballot & a few lucky selected will then get this offer? Seems overly complicated & yes, also engenders ill will by not rewarding loyalty…. More consultants using stupid algorithms to come up with this I suspect…. Sigh 

[Linnzi5]

44 minutes ago, JaneHartley said:

I actually think the annoying element of the 15% off offer, is that they exclude ballets to make it deliberately difficult or less worthwhile. For me this makes it much more difficult to use because I need to want to go to three separate ballets all within the same booking period all within the offer. This basically never happens. 

 

 

I got 15% off of everything I have booked so far, except Alice (which was excluded from the deal). I hope R&J is going to be included. 

[Dawnstar]

3 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

I got 15% off of everything I have booked so far, except Alice (which was excluded from the deal). I hope R&J is going to be included. 

 

I didn't realise Alice wasn't included. I guess that makes my previous comment somewhat pointless then. Is Cinderella included? Or is it only the 2 modern programmes in the autumn booking period? Which I gather are much lower priced anyway.

[oncnp]

6 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

 I hope R&J is going to be included. 

They have not changed the exclusions (so far) Orchestra Stalls offer

 

 

[Linnzi5]

59 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I didn't realise Alice wasn't included. I guess that makes my previous comment somewhat pointless then. Is Cinderella included? Or is it only the 2 modern programmes in the autumn booking period? Which I gather are much lower priced anyway.

Everything in ballet is included except Alice so far. I got the discount on Cinderella, yes.

 

Edit: I  do not understand why Alice isn’t included in the offer.

Edited October 26, 2024 by Linnzi5

[Sophoife]

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

You mention a ballot…so presumably it’s not a given that you get those rates…. More that you enter the ballot & a few lucky selected will then get this offer? Seems overly complicated & yes, also engenders ill will by not rewarding loyalty…. More consultants using stupid algorithms to come up with this I suspect…. Sigh 

 

I think you're absolutely right.

 

1 hour ago, Linnzi5 said:

Wow! That seems really unfair! A week before?! 

 

As I've said here before, to have principal casting as far out as RBO, BRB, Paris Opéra, etc is a fever dream for us here in Australia.

 

When they're managing a spate of injuries/illnesses/pregnancies they certainly don't tell us, the bums they want on their seats, the mushrooms. They would rather appear chaotically disorganised than to say, "hey, we've got a few logistical issues here, we'll let you know the casting as soon as possible".

 

They'd also rather we wonder why someone isn't cast than tell us "dancer X has a chronic back issue which has flared up" or "dancer Z is 17 weeks pregnant" or "dancer Y has had surgery and is very gently working their way back to the stage" - all of which have happened in the recent past.

 

Then when Dancer A gets COVID they just rearrange the casting and we're left in the dark about why - did Dancer A and Dancer B have a huge fight in the studio so they were separated?! Is Dancer B injured? Is Dancer A injured? Did the Cranko estate refuse permission for Dancer Q to replace Dancer A? Who'd know?!

 

We've also had seasons where principal casting has been made available on the day of the first performance.

 

We no longer get full casting on cast sheets, either. We get name and photo of the main roles, and if complaints are loud enough during the first block of performances we get name and photo of the solo roles as well - for the second block of performances. Last year for Don Q the first (Melbourne) block only listed Basilio, Kitri, the Don, Gamache, Lorenzo and Sancho Panza. The Sydney block we got in addition Mercedes, Espada, the Girlfriends, the Gypsy King and Queen. No matadors or anyone else. We can't even print them as PDFs either, just web pages that go on for ever.

 

Rant over.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2024 by Sophoife

[Shade]

6 hours ago, oncnp said:

 

I have booked 3 tickets for the same ballet (Cinderella, different dates but I think it is the number of tickets that matters) and received the 15% .

 

Stalls only is an issue for most though 

Yes I have very rarely bought stalls seats and that is unlikely to change!

[Dawnstar]

11 hours ago, Linnzi5 said:

Everything in ballet is included except Alice so far. I got the discount on Cinderella, yes.

 

Edit: I  do not understand why Alice isn’t included in the offer.

 

That baffles me. I would have thought Cinderella more likely to sell out in advance at undiscounted prices than Alice.

[Emeralds]

I can answer this one about why Stalls discounts only - two seasons ago, the stalls seats in the earliest performances of Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella- both ballets usually box office sellouts or 99.9% sellouts- hardly sold, so they had to do significant last minute discounting on the unsold stalls seats.

 

15% off in advance is definitely preferable to 25% or more off at the last minute for the company. The reason why they didn't sell was that 1) the seats were very expensive, especially when some audience members would have difficulties with sightlines being obscured by people in front of them, 2) there were a lot of performances -27 each (not counting the Gala premiere of Cinderella). Cinderella did eventually rally round and the last handful of performances were sold out.

 

[Emeralds]

16 hours ago, Linnzi5 said:

Everything in ballet is included except Alice so far. I got the discount on Cinderella, yes.

 

Edit: I  do not understand why Alice isn’t included in the offer.

Oddly enough, Alice is included for Young ROH £30 seats (Mon-Thurs only and not 

First Night) but not Cinderella. Both productions are now selling very well (every performance has taken place when  99.9% to 100% sold out and seemingly not "papered") so the decisions seem to have paid off....

[Garnier]

Those who speak French may be interested in the audit of the Paris Opera that was recently published, and which contains sections on funding and price (including comparisons with ROH/RBO: https://ccomptes.fr/fr/documents/72275

[San Perregrino]

Not included in the Header,  but this was included In an RBO email that I opened and read this morning:

 

Halloween flash offer

Looking to bring the whole family? Buy two full price tickets for Hansel and Greteland get up to 2 more with 50% off, for a limited time. *Terms and conditions apply.

Book now →

Edited October 29, 2024 by San Perregrino

[Birdy]

This happens with American Ballet Theatre all the time, too. Wouldn’t it be better if they just lowered the cost of tickets to begin with? It looks desperate when they throw out all of these offers and it seems unfair to people who paid full price to begin with.

[bangorballetboy]

31 minutes ago, Birdy said:

Wouldn’t it be better if they just lowered the cost of tickets to begin with? It looks desperate when they throw out all of these offers and it seems unfair to people who paid full price to begin with.

 

As someone who books early to ensure I get the tickets I want, I have no issue whatsoever with offers later in the booking process.  I don't see it as unfair at all.

[Blossom]

Because there are a few seats I particularly enjoy, I would always book early to access them. Late offers e.g. thinking back to Winter’s Tale entice me to book another performance. 

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

As someone who books early to ensure I get the tickets I want, I have no issue whatsoever with offers later in the booking process.  I don't see it as unfair at all.

 

I agree BBB, but what I have done in the past is bought extra tickets when the offers (if any) come out.  I'd rather get the tickets I want as early as possible.

[Sophoife]

And today AusBallet offers Oscar B and C Reserve tickets in Sydney for $99 for performances 11-14 November.

 

B Reserve is normally $178-181, C Reserve $129-131 for those performances.

[DD Driver]

So, just tangentially....I wonder of there is a place in ballet for starting new productions 'off-Broadway'

i.e. in smaller venues where feedback can be utilised to hone the show.

Positive word of mouth is then the key to gaining access to bigger theatres. 

[Sophoife]

Something like the B.I.G. - they're now touring a Nutcracker, even in Auckland!

[LinMM]

Some people who book early because Friends etc don’t book expensive tickets though and are often standing so don’t have a huge amount to lose if offers are later made. I have to stand ( all gone by public booking) or sit in the Balcony and that’s an area where seats have gone up enormously in the last two years. 
I usually end up paying a premium when sitting so as to be sure ( as one can be) of booking certain casts. 
But there is a way around some offers if feeling a bit annoyed…sell the current ticket ( or put on credit) and rebook a new one at cheaper price as long as can get for same night etc. 

[Emeralds]

On 29/10/2024 at 10:15, San Perregrino said:

Not included in the Header,  but this was included In an RBO email that I opened and read this morning:

 

Halloween flash offer

Looking to bring the whole family? Buy two full price tickets for Hansel and Greteland get up to 2 more with 50% off, for a limited time. *Terms and conditions apply.

Book now →

Because the RBO/ROH no longer do a printed season brochure like they used to eg 10 years ago (yes, yes I am showing my age or misspent youth spent skulking dance performances) and website layout is no longer as convenient as the one they had 8-12 years ago, I had no idea Hansel and Gretel (the opera, not NB's new children's mini ballet) was even on! I've now managed to get good seats - not using this offer, but the ones I and a friend want. I like this cast a lot. So thank you for the post, @San Perregrino. (RBO should pay you a fee!) Yes, RBO didn't email me either but the offer does come up if I choose 4 seats in the same tier and price range. 

Edited October 31, 2024 by Emeralds

[bangorballetboy]

That’s funny, I have a printed season booklet.