Sacrificing childhood to ballet?

[Anjuli_Bai]

Can we all agree that it is entirely possible to teach in a positive manner?

 

If we do agree to that - then why would anything else be acceptable?

[Anna C]

Gracious me, Dancingtodance, you obviously don't live in the UK! :-)

 

I don't smack or slap my daughter so there is no way I would tolerate any teacher - ballet or academic - hitting her. It is against the law in the UK for a teacher to use corporal punishment by hitting, slapping, using the cane etc. This is not the forum for going onto the rights and wrongs of parental smacking though.

[DancingtoDance]

Sorry not comfortable giving out where I live - possibly you can find out from the information (I personally hope people don't find out, but people might try and try and find out! Or maybe it's obvious) OK, I can tell you currently I don't live in England

Edited June 27, 2013 by DancingtoDance

[afab]

It was obvious DancingtoDance!

I don't live in the UK either. I don't slap nor hit my children even though I live in a country where it is acceptable for parents, never for teachers, to slap apparently! I have never done it! But i will happily hit a teacher who would dare though!

Edited June 27, 2013 by afab

[Lifeafterballet]

Every sport requires dedication and discipline and to excell in that sport sacrifices have to be made ! We can't be naieve in believing that Andy Murray for example had a normal childhood ! No pain, no gain ! That doesn't include physical chastisment !

[Thecatsmother]

I agree with your comments Anjuli. Teachers are placed in a privileged position. This can be a wonderful relationship if the teacher is attuned with the how to help every student to achieve their potential. You have to really get to know your students as people as one size does not fit all in terms of teaching approach. In a way being a teacher is a bit like the role of a gardener-finding where the plants flourish best, providing with the basics to grow and realising that rigorous pruning may shape a plant which is pleasing to look at but may also kill something within. A bit philosophical but true.

 

Aileen- it was a number of years ago but the person in question is still teaching but of course that is not appropriate to discuss on a public forum. I did however have a student who I mentored a few years back who had come through my old school and then gone on to train with a teacher who would stand behind her with a screwdriver to prevent her from leaning back. So much of my work was trying to undo the mental damage that was done but this is difficult when it has been so ingrained.

[Tulip]

Hitting is a form of power over someone who is unable to defend themselves. In my humble opinion that form of power should not be given to anyone. If a teacher or adult hits a child it is clear that the person has done so because they have lost control of the situation that they were unable to deal with because of the lack of words or skill that they lacked to explain the situation. Smacking is never acceptable. Can we imagine as adults if one of our bosses at work slapped us because we did something wrong, how we would feel. Therefore no matter where in the world a child or young adult lives, every child has a right to feel safe from harm. Rant over sorry everyone.

[Thecatsmother]

This is why young people need to be more protected. Other than going to social services there is little else in terms of protective mechanisms in non vocational schools. There was a case a few years back where social services got involved at a vocational school. The person who reported it had an ethical duty to do so but subsequently was no longer employed in that setting.

[afab]

How sad that you can lose your job for doing what's right...

[Anjuli_Bai]

On a cruise - a long time ago - one of our tablemates was a university professor who never tired (for the entire 2 weeks of the cruise) of proclaiming how lucky his students were that he deigned to teach them.  He declared that students only exist because there is a teacher.

 

I think otherwise - the teacher only exists because there are students.  The teaching process is student centered rather than teacher centered.

 

A teacher is placed on a pedestal by earning that place - it's not self assumed or automatic.

 

When I was teaching, I often felt as if I had become part of each student - from the inside out.  That way, hopefully, I could figure out how to best reach that heart and mind.  Otherwise, learning is "pasted on" and is a one size fits all - which ultimately means it fits no one well.

 

There are some students, for whatever reason, remain unrearchable and the fault may lie somewhere beyond the teacher's grasp - or even the student's grasp - but the endeavor has to be made.

 

Psychic, verbal and/or physical abuse has no part in any of this.

[Anna C]

Sorry not comfortable giving out where I live - possibly you can find out from the information (I personally hope people don't find out, but people might try and try and find out! Or maybe it's obvious) OK, I can tell you currently I don't live in England

I think we all guessed that!

 

But it's not for anyone here to try to find out; each of us decides how much information to give out.

[Thecatsmother]

Organisations like the RAD have a child protection policy and define what they as an organisation consider to be acceptable and unacceptable. I have read their policies and wonder what people think. My sense is that input needs to come from outside agencies due to the potential of conflict of interest. I think 'abuse' in the dance sense is highly likely to go unreported unless people have confidence in the system. This does need to change otherwise we are in danger of training the next generation of teachers and dancers to replicate what they experienced.

 

That being said there are a large number of teachers doing a great job in nurturing talent. The problem arises when power is abused and that is more likely to occur if the leader is not accountable to anyone due to organisational structures.

[DancingtoDance]

Regarding the sacrificing childhood to ballet - I think students might not find it a sacrifice if that was what they have chosen to do. They may find they can't stand the pressure in vocational ballet schools and the life is not suited for them - but if they have made the decision, and manage not to get assessed out, and yet still want to become a ballet dancer, they may realize that eventually, this is what they have to do. Or they may just change career options. But I think that if a parent didn't let a child try to pursue a ballet career, that will be much more of a sacrifice of childhood because think about what if a parent's adult child had almost gotten a job of writing and that was his or her absolute dream, but the parent is against it and prevented it, I'm sure the child would feel heartbroken. Or if the child wanted to pursue writing from a little kid but the parent was against it, and it was the only thing that gave the child joy - of course the child might not become a writer even if it was encouraged, but not being allowed to try to pursue that dream, the child when adult might wonder if he or she in fact had a good chance of becoming a writer if parents were supportive.

 

 But what if the parent "pushed" that dream onto the child? What if the child didn't particularly want to become a dancer but the parent wanted it? If the child had no intent of becoming any other profession, maybe the child would be grateful that he or she was given the opportunity to know what path he or she wanted to pursue. If the child does eventually find a contract, and even rises to soloist and even principal, the child might have talent, but was the child almost forced to like ballet? Because the audience can see it. What if the child did want to become something else - maybe an actor or actress - and had talent? If the child actually wants to pursue a career in acting, "sacrifices" also need to be made. But because the child is longing about acting and drama school, ballet might not be very enjoyable - and if even ballet itself is not enjoyable (I mean most of the time - you can't enjoy everything about something ALL the time!) , how will the child truly thrive, if they survive?

 

So I think whether it is worth it or considered a sacrifice or is worth it depends on the circumstances.

Edited June 28, 2013 by DancingtoDance

[CeliB]

Sometimes I think the greatest sacrifice is the one made by the parents who have to go through the trauma of losing their DCs so much earlier than they ever expected. My DS went off to summer school a week and a half ago without so much as a backward glance. I, however, spent the whole day crying (even though he's only gone for 3 weeks). He first went to vocational school 2 years ago so it's not as if I haven't had time to get used to it- except somehow you never do.

He knows if he ever decides he's not happy he could stop ballet in an instant. He's only there because he begged us to go. It wasn't at all what we'd imagined for his life, but I couldn't bear the thought that at 16 he might be auditioning for 6th form and not get a place, and at that point be looking at us and saying 'this is your fault because you didn't let me go and train properly', so letting him go was almost the lesser of 2 evils. I think I have said earlier on this thread that his life is incredibly rich and full of wonderful friends and experiences. I don't think he would consider his life one of sacrifice! (although I acknowledge he started ballet late and at 14 was a late starter at vocational school....)

[LinMM]

That was a moving post CeliB I'm sure you are right about it being harder for the parents in almost every way.

 

It can't be easy to not see ones child for months at a time( when schools are abroad) ballet or otherwise even though you know they are probably okay.

 

What a wonderful opportunity you are allowing your son to have....though children often appreciate this parental sacrifice more fully a bit further down the line.

[Huddsballetmum]

I believe that some children are just born to dance.  My dd nagged from the age of 2 to go dancing like her older friend, and at 21/2 I gave in and called the local dance school.  It is a love affair with dance that has lasted 11 years so far, and shows no signs of waining.  The only sacrifice she could make would be to stop dancing, which would destroy her entirely.  Therefore I will continue to pay out and ferry around my dd as she gets ready to audition for vocational school (her decision - not mine) and will stand by and wave her off with a smile, whilst crying inside,  if she is lucky enough to get a place.

[Billyelliott]

So there is one last day before I make the long trip with an overloaded car ,little DS and granny in tow , to leave behind my first born little miracle , now it is hitting me .... Why am I doing this ....someone remind me please !

DS is soooo excited to be leaving home on his great adventure , just turned 11 ....i think now that the sacrifice is mostly mine and his brothers to let him go off and do the one thing he lives to do !

Ouch !????

[Picturesinthefirelight]

At least ill get mine home every night

 

But we are allowing them to live their dream & also in dds case to attend a school where she isn't the oddball, where people not only get her, they feel the same as her.

[Lifeafterballet]

Hi Billyelliott, I'm sure your ds will have the most amazing time at his new school ! We will be there at 14:00 ! Might see you ! I'm going to miss my dd ! It has been lovely having her home for the summer ! She is so excited about returning to school ! Thank god she is taking her clarinet with her ! The dog and I are not going to miss that !!

[hfbrew]

You are enabling your ds to fulfill his dream. Thats what matters. And you won't stop being his lovely parents.

 

Enjoy his excitement at being with like minded peers, it was the making of our only child.

 

9 years later for us and like many of his friends he is loving life as a professional dancer and shudders at the thought of 9-5 regular work.

 

Good luck. He will always be your loving ds.

[HAIRBELLES]

There is no doubt about it Billyelliott it can be very hard for us as parents to let them go off at 11 in pursuit of their dreams.

 

As I have said before on here I always feel a slight malaise when my dd's are not around, but it makes the times when they are even more special  (usually)

 

There will be lots of you all feeling the same tomorrow and I'm sure you will get a lot of support from each other and the school.

 

Wishing your ds and all the new starters the very best of luck as they begin the next stage of their journey!

 

Lots of tissues and a nice glass of wine when you get home.

[Fiz]

I wish you and your ds all the very best. My ex dds are young women living away from home for the first time and you have my sympathy.

[JulieW]

There's a "good luck" thread for anyone else wishing to add their thoughts

[Dance*is*life]

I chose the pseudonym Dance*is*life because for me it is just that and everyone who knows me personally knows that without dance I wouldn't be me! I started dancing at 3 and a half and haven't stopped since, more than 60+ years later. I don't feel that it was a sacrifice - on the contrary for me it has been a blessing - class whether teaching it or dancing it has always been my special place - MY place. Luckily for my parents it wasn't a sacrifice financially as I had scholarships, nor was it a sacrifice emotionally as I lived at home throughout my training. I went abroad to perform in a ballet company, but not so far that they couldn't come and visit. I never taught so much that my family felt neglected when my kids were young and they are all very proud of me and actually liked the fact that I was different from their friends' parents! They still come to my school recitals and they have come numerous times to watch me perform in character roles with our local ballet company. Last November, my middle son brought his 4 year old son to see Grandma as the nanny in Romeo and Juliet Ballet has kept me fit and active; it has taught me to work hard and persevere and it has filled my life with pleasure at being involved in something so special. I think it has been a privilege - not a sacrifice.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Dance*is*life

[DancingDays]

Dance*is*life - I love this post!  What you have described is what I hope my daughter can have....a lifelong love of dance....it has meant so much to her already that for her to carry that passion through her life would be fantastic!

 

She's just at the start of her journey but I will pray that she continues to love it!

[LinMM]

Somehow once it gets in your blood it's there for Life!! It may come and go at times in the course of a busy life but its there waiting to be expressed again when time allows. Having retired this year Ive now got more time and dance once more is becoming an important part of the weekly routine.

Like Dance is Life (also loved that post) it is keeping me fit and giving new lease of life into old age(hopefully!)

[Fiz]

Absolutely, Lin! I got hooked as a three year old, waited years to have lessons and my school forced me to give up after only three years. I went back when I was thirty but gave up as the class was full of ballet mums who only wanted to mess about. I have finally at the age of 55, found a decent class.