Sacrificing childhood to ballet?

[BankruptMum]

It's all very well a teacher saying that it is better for children to go away at 16, rather than 11, but what if the child doesn't get in at 16? I wonder how many non-vocational students get places in upper schools, particularly girls. As has been said many times before on other threads, the children are competing against some of the best international students for places at 16. Balletboysmum, if your ds was really keen to go away at 11 (and he got a scholarship to enable him to do so) then it was the right thing to do to let him go. It may or may not work out. You can only make the best decision that you can at the time.

 

 

Very true Aileen.  I guess we have had a taster of vocational school and all the ups and downs that brings.  My daughter is very happy and settled back at home but I am sure its because she has had the opportunity to see what being at a vocational school is like, often anxiety and longing is bought about because the grass seems greener.

 

We took the approach at age 11 that if she had the opportunity and wanted to go then she should.  The only thing I would suggest to anyone at a vocational school to do each year is have a personal appraisal of the situation and ask is it still what they / we still want?  The answer will most probably be yes but if you dont stop and look at the whole picture and assess what other options there are its easy to get stuck on a treadmill. and assume you have to stay.

 

 

 

My DD particularly missed performing, some vocational schools still allow them to take part in Janet Crams, EYB etc., but a lot dont.  The end of year show was a poor substitute for somebody who was used to competing regularly and enjoyed that aspect.

 

There is a lot to be weighed up, I think its important to have the guts to do what is right for your family circumstances.

 

 

 

 

[JulieW]

For some reason the quote's coming out underneath - never mind.  Wanted to say what a good point this is.  As most of you know, my son was "assessed out" of WL in year 9, but the previous year he'd had a very low appraisal mark so we sat down and talked about whether he really wanted to be there, all the pros and cons etc.   The following year, we had another very serious conversation about what he would do if he was assessed out, which was good, as it then happened but he'd had an opportunity to talk about his options.  I really feel that some of his peers went through the school without really stopping to think about whether it's what they really wanted.  

 

 

The only thing I would suggest to anyone at a vocational school to do each year is have a personal appraisal of the situation and ask is it still what they / we still want?  The answer will most probably be yes but if you dont stop and look at the whole picture and assess what other options there are its easy to get stuck on a treadmill. and assume you have to stay.

[All4dancers]

I totally agree with both sides of this discussion.  My dd is 12 and is due to go away in September and although in some ways it will tear me apart (she is the youngest of 5, 3 of whom have already left for university), I know it's what she wants to do more than anything.  We are taking it on a yearly basis.  We have had many long discussions and I'm sure we'll have many more before she goes, I don't even know if I'll be able to afford for her to go for more than a year, she may be assessed out or she may decide it isn't for her.  The thing is, we will never know unless she tries.  At the moment,it is so hard getting her to her classes each evening after a long day at work and for her having to constantly miss out on parties etc, but when I'm in town and see her friends hanging around with their 'boyfriends' and messing around, I often think to myself I'm glad she's got something worthwhile to apply herself to and even though I'm aware that she will face some of the same pressures at vocational school and probably many more besides, at least she will be with people who understand her.  Saying all that, I guess come September, there'll  still probably be times when I'm crying on all your virtual shoulders!   

[Ja Sm]

I have been very touched reading this thread by everyone's honest and heartwarming comments. What a difficult decision it must be. My dd loves to dance,but to go away? She was not in the situation where she had to think about it, but I know she would not have chosen to do so. What amazing young people there are in our world, with such passion and determination. Thank goodeness we are not all the same. I suppose many with a vocational gift make sacrifices, art, sports, music, dance, and, whether they go on to use their gifts professionally or not, would still not regret the hours spent on them. I believe that such gifts enrich their lives and the lives of those around them. Such pleasure can be gained from watching a beautiful dancer, listening to a outstanding voice, watching someone run like the wind.....oh the wonders of humanity...

[jess]

I have been very touched reading this thread by everyone's honest and heartwarming comments. What a difficult decision it must be. .

I couldn't agree more, it has been very moving to read everyone's thoughts and feelings, The thing that stands out the most is that there is no right or wrong - I can hear everybody speaking so passionately about what they feel or felt was the best for their own child and that is what matters at the end of the day. Reading this thread has made me reflect on how lucky all of your children are - they have a parent who cares so much about their needs.

[Billyelliott]

I too have enjoyed reading the personal stories in this thread and wonder about what is in store for us !

Having spent the last 3 years on trains to London and driving long distances to JA's as well as all the festivals , rehearsals , shows etc , we can't help thinking that sending our DS of to Elmhurst will give us back our lives ! But is it actually out of the frying pan and into the fire ?!

Have just gathered that the school closes every3rd weekend , so now instead of London it's Birmingham we have to treck to !

Having said that DS has a mind of his own and will most probably find a traveling companion to catch the train with and Mummy will not be needed for much longer !

He will certainly be sacrificing his love of competitions and festivals , but I also just know he will find a way to be on a stage somewhere !!

So glad also that continuing to play his violin will be encouraged and not sacrificed . In fact all in all - apart from a bedtime cuddle I probably not be missed , as much as his friends from the dance school and his daytime school .

Still unsure as to how his only Brother will take it ......at least he will have my full attention , even if we are too broke to do anything much .....

So very grateful to everyone for the insight of what the future may hold emotionally - thank you !

[hfbrew]

The times you do spend with your son will be even more memorable and precious. And yes his brother will have your full attention too!  You can enjoy sending funny post and getting favourite foods ready for homecomings...

 

Its a wonderful , hard, emotional, joyous, at times unfair, confusing, expensive, satisfying, funny, heart breaking, rewarding journey! Enjoy.

 

Make the most of it-  when they turn professional it doesn't get easier- in fact I miss my ds more than ever despite being one of the lucky ones who get to see their offspring  regularly- many go abroad.....

 

The very best of luck to you and all others starting this journey!

[JulieW]

I hate this time of year ;-) I get really envious of those starting out their journeys at vocational schools and wish we could do it all again (with the benefit of hindsight!). We had plenty of lows with having to leave WL, dealing with injuries etc but I really miss it, especially as I've only seen my son on two occasions since he went off to his new job last August. He'd probably say different, in that he's so happy to be in a company dancing and living with his best friends.

 

Enjoy it - make the most of this wonderful opportunity, but realise that not everyone will "make it" out the other side as a professional dancer - but everyone can come out of it as strong,confident individuals, in the knowledge that they gave it their best shot.

 

My final piece of advice is to not only rely on the school's assessment each year, use that time to reassess for yourself - talk to your child seriously about whether they're getting the most out of it, do they still really "want" it, etc. It's not the end of the world if you have to (or choose) to move on.

 

Good luck everyone - and have fun along the way xx

[audsjcanuck]

My dd is just about to complete her 5th of 7 years at a ballet boarding school. Ironically today is the final re-assessment notice day and therefore looks good for final 2 years.

Regarding sacrifice? As I mentioned on another post, I am coming to grips with the behavioral choices of her friends from home. She has lost contact with most of them as she has always been too pooped to socialize when she comes home on weekends and breaks.

So, the 'old' friends, those that she left behind 5 years ago - they all are doing all the things we dread of our teenagers. I knew a few were into all sorts of trouble but last night I had a mom on my doorstep in tears. Drugs, sex and rock'n'roll in a nutshell. And pretty much all of them. I'm not surprised as I am not naïve but is this considered a 'normal childhood'? 

I have a dd who would be suspended or expelled for any of these behaviours if the school found out. She is aware of how many others would take her spot in a heartbeat so she won't risk it. She's too busy anyways and also, very conscious of her health.

Her current ballet school classmates seem younger, lighter spirited and fresher then the former. And yet they are extremely mature and responsible and capable of so much independence.

So I don't feel my dd has sacrificed her childhood, rather I feel her childhood has been preserved.

[Evie]

I miss my little boy so much, we are so caught up in the dance world that I feel we just get carried along with it. Reality has hit home for me these last 9 months. He will never know my pain, but if I could do it all again, I wouldn't!

[windover60]

Evie - I have to say I think you probably would you know, even though you miss him terribly - he would not be the lovely person he is if you had not let him follow his dream xxx

[hfbrew]

Evie - I have to say I think you probably would you know, even though you miss him terribly - he would not be the lovely person he is if you had not let him follow his dream xxx

Wise words.

 

I know several adults who bitterly resent their parents for not allowing them to continue dancing as it was felt that an academic route through university was preferable. Some of these people had been told by their teachers they had potential, one had to turn down a place at vocational school, other would have just liked to continue dancing alongside their studies (but were made to stop).  All of them now wonder "what if".... It was especially hard for them as it was not finance that stood in their way.

 

I really appreciate now what my mum did for me all those years ago although she doesn't understand the Ballet world one bit and many of my even close relatives think its my hobby.  I started at Hammond just after my father died and in hindsight she could really have done with me at home but she loved me enough to let go.

 

And I am so thankful that my ds had a clear vision of what he wanted achieve, backed up by plans a, b and c too!  Like all the young people we are still in touch with who started the WL journey with him , he is a delight to know.  Not all decided to continue dancing but all as far as know are happy and successful in their lives. 

 

Actually I think us parents should all smugly pat ourselves on the back..... whilst still we wait by our mobile phones for news....

[Nana Lily]

Evie, I and many other parents feel your pain. I have two DD's at vocational school one in year 8 and one in year 9. Its a journey which goes through highs and lows. Some weeks are better than others, and sometimes its feels the sacrifices are better than not doing it, other times not. My DD's have been lucky with casting for the Company, they have both toured, both have been selected for casting and they have both loved the experience. Times at school have not been without their challenges and homesickness both from them and me have been hard. We have been lucky so far in that we feel the benefits have out weighed the sacrifices. Many families and children have not had the opportunities mine have but still feel its all worth it. All this However doesn't help how you or your child feels.

 

You are not alone on your journey, we are hear to support you.

 

NL xxx

[Evie]

Thank you all for your kind words, I must add that this is the way I feel. He absolutely loves his school, he's very proud to be there, he's bonded with the other boys, his houseparents and his dance and academic teachers. I see his friends playing football here and can hear them playing in their garden on the trampoline, it's times like this when I miss him. I miss his company, he's noisy, he's funny, he's always happy and helpful. But he wants to be a ballet dancer and I miss that football banging against the fence in the garden!!

[Spax]

I have lost both my children. Ds starts WL in Sept and dd left for Ballet West last Sept. i don't know what I an going to do without them. Dad was really upset and still is with dd going and today at WL hit him losing ds. Little tear in his eyes. Ds.....can't wait to go!

[Evie]

Yes, it is hard. I still have other older children at home, but it wouldn't matter if I had 20 of them. I just miss him.

[Lifeafterballet]

Hi Evie, Saw my dd and I am sure your ds on my visit to the school today ! They are having the time of their lives. It comforts me to know that she is so happy and is with such fantastic children as yours and others on this forum. She wrote in the induction booklet nearly a year ago that she believed she would have 2 families. Her home one and her school one. Her wishes came true. Still miss her though ! Xx

[HAIRBELLES]

Yes, it is hard. I still have other older children at home, but it wouldn't matter if I had 20 of them. I just miss him.

Not long now Evie and it will be the Summer holidays!

 

Although my girls are only an hour away I miss them terribly and have a constant feeling of malaise when they are not around. There have been lots of highs and lows over the past 5 years with probably more to come, I can only hope when they look back my girls feel it was the right path to take.

[balletbun]

Evie did you get the photo I sent you yesterday of your ds and my dd grinning like Cheshire cats ? if not somebody somewhere has a lovely photo on their phone x

[Billyelliott]

This is a week of "lasts"

My DS is off to live at the other end of the country in September . Knew it was happening but now it is hitting home.....

We have had our last Tap class , last Modern class, last worship band last music concert and tomorow is the last time to play with the youth orchestra !

Saturday will be our last ever JA Class ....even he is shedding a tear here and there !

[LinMM]

Yes it is sad when certain things come to an end but hopefully you will now get to see your son perform professionally....so new beginnings there!

 

And it's time to seriously start thinking about starting that ballet class Billyelliott....then you'll both be able to talk ballet when you meet up!!

[LinMM]

There's also a message on the process of learning ballet thread for you!

[Thecatsmother]

I was not allowed to go the vocational route until 16 so spent my life travelling long distances to and from classes up to age of 16. My training as a young child was nothing short of brutal as the teacher forbid us from attending parties, put some students as young as ten on diets and prevented her favoured pupils from doing sport at school as she said it built the wrong muscles. Over the years, I was pulled across the room by my hair-other students had similar experiences but nobody has talked openly about what went on at that time.

 

I do worry that some dance teachers continue to hold too much power over young people. Respect and commitment are important and there are some great teachers out there but also some who cause students to suffer unecessary abuse in silence. This darker side does I think equate to a degree of loss of childhood as it is experienced at such a young age when the child's beliefs about the world are still developing.

 

If I could change one thing about the ballet world it would be the development of a more robust reporting system to identify when 'abuse' is occurring at the hands of teachers. I agree there can be a fine line and different personalities respond to different styles but it is wrong for a young person to spend years living in fear and feel powerless to do anything about it. Vocational schools tend to have processes in place but intense training at a non vocational school leaves students in a much more vulnerable position. The fact that a friend of mine tried to take an overdose at ballet perhaps illustrates my point.

[LinMM]

Well you have to be pretty tough to put up with all that from the ballet teacher.

I have obviously been lucky then.....though I did meet up,with this not doing sports thing(I was a good swimmer and told shoulders would get too big etc) But although my mum kept pretty much in the background where ballet and school were concerned I felt she fully supported me when really needed. I was a child who,tended to keep,things to myself as a general rule but when something more serious happened I usually blurted it out at some point and both my parents or one or the other would help sort out if could.

I can't think of a ballet example except both my parents supporting me with the carrying on swimming episode(my mum spoke out about that one) but they were not confrontational types so when they did get involved which didn't happen that often they were listened to and respected. This also applied to neighbours in the road....eg there was a boy who punched me in the stomach or kicked me for nothing every time he walked passed. I put up with it for a while and didn't say anything. Then one day he really hurt me and some hours later it all came out and my dad went to see this boys parent. They were so shocked I think that my dad went as far as this that they dealt with it and it never happened again.

 

I think what I'm getting at here is do you think ballet girls in particular keep things in and don't tell parents or are parents reluctant to intervene in such cases?

[Thecatsmother]

My sense is "some" teachers have too much power in an unhealthy rather than leadership/mentor role. It is often the case that this can almost create a 'cult' like mentality in a school where the teacher can almost brain wash students/parents to question their reality and cause them to fear questioning in case it make things worse. If a teacher has a valid and appropriate rationale for decisions/actions then I think this can assist in resolution. For me, it made things far worse and got so bad that I chose to leave a few years later. I was lucky enough to find a nurturing teacher and this helped me to begin to believe in myself again. How you find a solution to these situations is tricky due to the incestuous nature of the ballet world. I guarantee that if I set up a website for survivors of non vocational/vocational schools there would be many that had things to say. It is just difficult to know where to take it other than social services but I would imagine many would fear to speak up in case it made things worse for them. On the plus side, I am grateful for the lessons she taught me as to how not to teach students. So I think ballet has much to offer young people but extreme care has to be placed upon finding what is right for the child. If they are happy and thrive on what they are receiving then surely this enriches their childhood. Having a friendship network outside of dance can also help achieve more balance in early life.

[aileen]

Balleteacher, do you mind me asking how many years ago you had this teacher?

[Anjuli_Bai]

I think that not only are ballet students intimidated but so are their parents (usually the mothers).  You can see it at this board.   Through all the years that I've been here (and the first ballet.co), I can't count the number of times mothers have voiced hesitation in simply talking to the teacher, asking legitimate questions.  I know they are afraid of hurting their child's chances, or angering the teacher, etc.  They also put up with all sorts of rules such as not taking classes anywhere else, needing permission for  other activities or getting a second opinion.  They tend to regard the teacher as an oracle and set him/her on an unearned pedestal. 

 

This goes well beyond respect and becomes control.

 

Balleteacher in a post above mentions being pulled by her hair.  This, of course, is (in the USA) a felony assault.  However, though we are a lot  more aware of this kind of overt abuse today - there is stil a lot of quiet, insidious abuse going on.  A teacher who sets up a controlling negative environment and/or one of pressured competition - is also abusive.  It's covert - quiet- beneath the surface.  The students have nothing they can point to - but the abuse is there.

 

I think it has always been this way - in all kinds of teaching milieus: ballet, music, religious, regular day school, living away from home schools, Everywhere - all through history.

 

Why?  Because there will always be people who will try to control others negatively to take out their own frustrations on those unable to fight back.  You want something from them (education) and they supply it - but at a price.

 

This is a general statement and of course does not include the thousands of wonderful teachers.  However, there are enough of the other kind to sully the field.

[LinMM]

Perhaps in reply to the comment about a more robust reporting abuse system......if ballet schools even smaller ones had to write out policies (about programmes taught) and code of practise and ethics of the school......as a normal schools have to......for teachers and pupils then this might be helpful.....because then if a teacher doesn't follow their own code of practice parents/students would have some recourse for complaint and the same for students who are not showing the behaviour the parents all agreed to and signed up for.

 

How practical this would be in the ballet world I am not sure.

[aileen]

I haven't seen it, but there's a documentary about a ballet school somewhere in Russia (I think that it's called something like 'A Beautiful Tragedy') and in it there's apparently quite a lot of behaviour on the part of one of the teachers which most people would regard as unacceptable. As the programme features a current dancer at the Mariinsky the programme can't be more than 15 or 20 years old. Vadim Muntagirov (who has just turned 23) has spoken of teachers screaming and slapping the students at his Russian school (I think that it was the same school as the one featured in the documentary).

[Anna C]

"A Beautiful Tragedy" is only 5 years old; I believe it was released in 2008. If I remember rightly it was filmed at Perm State Ballet School, and yes, some of the behaviour towards the students is alarming, to say the least.

[aileen]

Ah, it's only about *five* years old. Gosh! I think that the dancer whom I mentioned (Oxana Skorik) must have stayed at the school until she joined the Mariinsky. Vadim was at Perm until he went to the RBS at 16. He has also said that he was frightened of his Russian teachers.

[DancingtoDance]

Well I have seen episodes of A Beaitiful Tragedy in youtube, in my opinion the teachers' behavior are quite acceptable. Maybe it is just that I'm naive, but I remain my point that I find it quite acceptable. I don't really think it is that different to normal schools - I don't go to a local school where I live - but I have a feeling that in local schools often teachers downright embarrass and criticize students. It is great that everyone can attend school- as free schooling is offered - but can everyone really take pressure. I feel those extremely poor may actually in many cases not show it but the pressure destroys their confidence. There is also huge pressure to succeed - hours are spent on homework (and I mean real homework - like writing words over and over for two and a half year olds) even for two and a half and three year olds - which is considered quite normal where I live. I have never attended local schools - just what I have seen in the library etc.

 

I also wonder if parents are allowed to slap children why aren't teachers? Where I live I am sure it is considered perfectly fine for parents to hit children given the children don't have to go to hospital - but I think teachers can't use violence as much.

 

The student's behavior - Oksana Skorik - is another story IMO. I think that instead of thinking maybe she really has nothing to do in Perm, she should think about what caused the teacher to imply that, so she has a better understanding.

 

What I would change in ballet is for teachers to help students understand the reason for an act and the true meaning of it from the very beginning. In the vocational school the school might pick only students with a certain understanding and personality, so perhaps using similar techniques to help students is good, but not always IMO. So I would also want teachers to understand students better (which I think most do) AND use that to help a student!

Edited June 27, 2013 by DancingtoDance

[aileen]

Where do you live, DancingtoDance?