Ian Macmillan Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I'd wondered how long it would take for the UK papers to catch onto this story. Not too long, it seems: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f9870d80-ab8d-11ed-9cb3-80326348937b?shareToken=b4c5ac252e790b47c7b4d3af3cdd1563 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Did he really "smear her face" with it, though? That's not the impression I got from what's been said here - and absolutely disgusting, if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 40 minutes ago, alison said: Did he really "smear her face" with it, though? That's not the impression I got from what's been said here - and absolutely disgusting, if true. Agree. Sadly, it seems to be true. He has now been suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 Until further notice. The theatre writes that they have to protect his dancers from him, which is outrageous - dancers love him wherever he works, because the work is so much fun. May I also add that it was not one review he was angry about, but 15 years of bad reviews by this critic. And I'm sure that many other directors and choreographers in Germany could not suppress a bitter smile when they read about it. Enough said. I know it's unforgiveable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 30 minutes ago, Angela said: Until further notice. The theatre writes that they have to protect his dancers from him, which is outrageous - dancers love him wherever he works, because the work is so much fun. May I also add that it was not one review he was angry about, but 15 years of bad reviews by this critic. And I'm sure that many other directors and choreographers in Germany could not suppress a bitter smile when they read about it. Enough said. I know it's unforgiveable. Yes, I do know how much dancers love to work with him! It's inexcusable what he did but so very very sad. That being said: of course it's very hard to swallow that critics are protected by press law without being obliged to deliver a certain quality. And even personal offending is quite often tolerated/protected. I figure it's probably very difficult to defend against this legally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 It's also useful to be the wife of the editor. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 IIRC David Dawson reacted heatedly to the reception his Human Seasons at the RB received from the critics. But that was verbal rather than physical. I actually ‘feel’ for choreographers and performers having to face reviewers. I read quite a lot of what is in Links (thank you Ian and Janet) and there are rather too many writers (worldwide) whose knowledge of dance appears limited. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, capybara said: IIRC David Dawson reacted heatedly to the reception his Human Seasons at the RB received from the critics. But that was verbal rather than physical. And if I remember correctly, the dancers as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 In other, more civilised news, Hamburg Ballet published their next season today: https://www.hamburgballett.de/en/news/editorial.php https://www.hamburgballett.de/en/schedule/overview_2324.php?type=premieren&season=2324 https://www.hamburgballett.de/downloads/vorschau/vorschau_ballett_23_24.pdf?m=1676283377#season Alina Cojocaru is still listed as principal guest. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Angela said: In other, more civilised news, Hamburg Ballet published their next season today: https://www.hamburgballett.de/en/news/editorial.php https://www.hamburgballett.de/en/schedule/overview_2324.php?type=premieren&season=2324 https://www.hamburgballett.de/downloads/vorschau/vorschau_ballett_23_24.pdf?m=1676283377#season Alina Cojocaru is still listed as principal guest. Lucky Hamburg, getting Jane Eyre! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollylamb1 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Another: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64630181 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 46 minutes ago, lollylamb1 said: Another: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64630181 It wasn't just because of this one review, as the article states. She has been smearing his works in a personally derogatory manner for years. This is not an excuse for what he did, but it is an explanation that he blew a fuse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Lizbie1 said: Lucky Hamburg, getting Jane Eyre! Exactly. I love Cathy Marston's Jane Eyre. The only thing is ... it was designed for smaller stages in smaller theatres. I just hope it doesn't look swamped on the enormous stage at Hamburg. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 Maybe you want to guess which FAZ journalist is responsible for the chaos at Tanztheater Wuppertal ten years ago... just saying... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 🙈🙈🙈 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Sabine0308 said: It wasn't just because of this one review, as the article states. She has been smearing his works in a personally derogatory manner for years. This is not an excuse for what he did, but it is an explanation that he blew a fuse. If this is the case, I would think he'd have figured out nothing he does will please her and stop caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Well, the story has spanned the globe now and has reached Hong Kong via New York ( and no doubt other places I've not noticed). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 It’s clear audiences, dancers and company directors like his works. So no one should pay attention to this critic and nor should her employer. (Though they are now also in an awkward position.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, oncnp said: If this is the case, I would think he'd have figured out nothing he does will please her and stop caring. You're absolutely right. On the other hand, she can never again write about his works because no one will believe her that it is an honest opinion. IF he ever works again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliosr Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, bridiem said: So we would only have positive or descriptive reviews? That would undermine the whole point of reviewing which is to assess a performance/work whether positively or negatively (and, ideally, educate readers in the process). Critics should be aware of their privileged position, and of the fact that they're writing about fellow human beings, but they must also be free to express their opinions honestly - they're writing as critics, not fans. Exactly I quote the dance critic Arlene Croce (who was speaking of the relationship between the critic and the dancer but could have just as well been speaking about the relationship between the critic and the choreographer): "The critic doesn't exist to write for the dancer, but for the public. This is the point that (dance critic) Edwin (Denby) made better than I can: 'Criticism is a conversation that the audience has with itself, and if the performer wants to eavesdrop on the conversation, he does so at his own risk.' " And: "You (the critic) owe your audience some evaluation. I cling to that. They don't want a lot of impressionistic buzz. They want to know: Is it good? And I think you have a right, in your own dignity, to say, 'Yes it was, no it wasn't.' " *Quotes taken from an interview Croce gave to Dance Ink magazine in the 1990s. Edited February 14, 2023 by miliosr 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Just heard that the BBC Today programme on will have the critic on at some point before 9am this morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ian Macmillan said: Just heard that the BBC Today programme on will have the critic on at some point before 9am this morning. She was on at c 7.30am, describing what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Indeed, having just said that she'd be on, the News followed with a clip. Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I agree with Ricky Gervais re critics … https://www.instagram.com/p/CocvKi5KU77/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 11 minutes ago, FionaE said: I agree with Ricky Gervais re critics … https://www.instagram.com/p/CocvKi5KU77/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y Have you got the actual quote from Ricky Gervais rather than from a meme site please? I don't always agree with critics but I believe in their right to write their views. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 No I don’t have the actual quote. It concurs with what others have written above that critics’ conversation is with the audience, not necessarily the creatives. So yes I agree with their right to an opinion. My question in this shocking case … should an employer publish and pay for the reviews of a particular critic, if it is often at odds with the audience ? As @Angelahas referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I can’t believe the BBC is giving airtime to a critic who has caused such a response. They should think about why that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiniGabriel Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said: Have you got the actual quote from Ricky Gervais rather than from a meme site please? I don't always agree with critics but I believe in their right to write their views. Sorry, I did not imagine of this being my first post here, but I found the quote on twitter and would like to share it. Edited February 14, 2023 by NiniGabriel typo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Welcome to the forum anyway, NiniGabriel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, FionaE said: I can’t believe the BBC is giving airtime to a critic who has caused such a response. They should think about why that is. So it's her own fault she had dog excrement smeared on her face? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenade Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 17 minutes ago, FionaE said: My question in this shocking case … should an employer publish and pay for the reviews of a particular critic, if it is often at odds with the audience ? As @Angelahas referred to. But I think the only point of reviews is to hear the views of critics whether you agree or not. What does it matter if the views are at odds with the audience? What would the alternative be? Only critics who agree with the majority of the audience be allowed to review? It would then just be a giant echo chamber 16 minutes ago, FionaE said: I can’t believe the BBC is giving airtime to a critic who has caused such a response. They should think about why that is. She is the victim and deserves to be heard. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I think the Ricky Gervais quote is rather trite, I'm afraid. Good critical writing can be very creative and instructive. Besides which there seems to be the (erroneous) assumption that all critical writing is negative criticism. Critics consider and assess what they see, whether their conclusions are positive or negative (or, often, somewhere in between). 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, serenade said: She is the victim and deserves to be heard. I was however surprised to hear her on the radio, because I understand the incident has been reported to the police and surely if there might be criminal charges this kind of public discussion of what happened would be prejudicial? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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