ROH 23/24 season announced

[Lizbie1]

2 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

I’m not rich enough to fly to Milan just to watch opera or ballet, but La Scala has never claimed to be cheap, a bargain nor competitively priced (at least in the languages I can read), other than having a long history and a formidable reputation. It’s simply an observation that compared to ROH, it’s much easier getting tickets for good seats in Paris (both opera houses), New York (both the Met and NY State Theater), Sydney, Singapore, Edinburgh, Prague, Barcelona - or indeed other theatres in Britain - without having to do extensive research on the theatre and seating first! 

 

But that wasn't what you said! It was that ROH was unique in the number of restricted view seats at high prices.

[Mary]

We're all concerned about rising prices.

 

But I can't agree ROH is uniquely problematic.

Most 19C opera houses have sight line problems, and prices are going up everywhere.  My small local theatre is charging £70 to see something rather mundane  and get very  cramped legs in the process....I still feel my usual amphi seats give good relative value, bearing in mind the quality we get at ROH.

 

I think JohnS has the right idea of trying to engage ROH management in constructive dialogue and I shall do the same if I feel unhappy  - but continue to support them.

 

[Richard LH]

Sort of relevant to the discussion on pricing, and ROH income...:

"The Royal Opera House, including our café, shop and restaurants, is closed all day on 18 May 2023 for a private event".

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what this event is?  ....How often are such events arranged?

....and how much must it cost to hire the whole ROH for a day??

 

[Guest oncnp]

18 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Sort of relevant to the discussion on pricing, and ROH income...:

"The Royal Opera House, including our café, shop and restaurants, is closed all day on 18 May 2023 for a private event".

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what this event is?  ....How often are such events arranged?

....and how much must it cost to hire the whole ROH for a day??

 

 

Perhaps it's a staff retreat day

[Richard LH]

24 minutes ago, oncnp said:

Perhaps it's a staff retreat day

Not seriously? 😮

[San Perregrino]

By coincidence tonight’s Masterchef episode was filmed in the Piazza  restaurant & kitchen

[Fonty]

On 16/05/2023 at 19:31, Mary said:

We're all concerned about rising prices.

 

But I can't agree ROH is uniquely problematic.

Most 19C opera houses have sight line problems, and prices are going up everywhere. 

 

 

I cannot pass comment on any other opera houses, as I haven't been in anything other than the ROH.  I do find it intensely annoying when people weave about in front of me, in order to be able to see everything.  However, this seems to be particularly bad in some of the most expensive seats in the stalls, and I can understand why people do it.

 

It really, really annoyed me when I paid £170 for what looked to be a terrific seat right in the middle of the stalls for Cinderella, purely because it would be the last time I would see Morera dance.  And then discovered that because a relatively tall person was sitting in front, the whole of the right side of the stage was blocked if I sat normally in my seat.  I spent much of the evening draped over the seat in front, having apologised in advance to the person sitting behind me (who assured me I wasn't blocking her view.)  This seems to me to be a ridiculous state of affairs. 

 

I am assuming that when they did a refit of the opera house, there was a very good reason why they could not provide a bit more rake to the seating on the ground floor?

[zxDaveM]

17 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

I am assuming that when they did a refit of the opera house, there was a very good reason why they could not provide a bit more rake to the seating on the ground floor?

 

might be because of the Grade II listed status - and aiming to maximise the number of seats in the expensive areas, wouldn't allow a more generous rake as a result

[Jane S]

I think they did increase the rake of the stalls somewhat - I remember being delighted when I queued up for the opening booking period after the rebuild and managed to get  Row A centre  in the Stalls Circle - my favourite seats up till then - and then being hugely disappointed when I discovered that that no longer guaranteed a clear view of the stage. So presumably they couldn't do much more without reclassifying the whole of the Stalls circle centre block.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Jane S

[capybara]

I have noticed on some old films posted on BCF that the stage used to be lower and have less ‘baggage’ at the very front. ( I’m not talking about the protective grid above the orchestra.) Indeed, I remember there being a clear gap between the bottom of the proscenium arch and the stage. Now, the front is higher and slopes down to where the action is. It is no wonder that, over the years, dancers’ feet cannot readily be seen from the front row.

 

I’m not sure about this, but I think that the raked stages in the grand theatres in Europe were constructed so that the unraked audience in the Stalls would have a better view. The only way of raking the ROH Stalls slightly more would probably be to  absorb parts of the Stalls Circle into it. 

 

 

[JNC]

I can't comment on ROH stalls but I have treated myself to the stalls in the Palais Garnier (can't justify those prices in the UK, but if I'm going all the way to Paris I'll be damned if I have a bad view). I will say that I don't think it's much better (and probably worse) in Paris. I think I was lucky to be sat near the back of the stalls which provided a good view, but there the seats aren't overlapped, so you're directly sitting right behind someone's head and even a 'normal sized' person's head can get quite significantly in your way. I admit I was one of those annoying people who have weaved my head left and right accordingly, but when I paid around 100 euro I wanted to be able to see the full stage as best as possible, not have 1/3 of the dancers blocked. I was very surprised it was quite so bad (given these are the most expensive seats) and wonder if I was just being fussy, but the lady sat next to me did the exact same thing so clearly not a unique problem.  Having said that the Palais Garnier was absolutely wonderful, but next time I'd pay to sit up in the higher area which is sort of at the back of the stalls (balcon I think they call it?) which appeared to have better rake, or if you grab a ticket in the front row of that section you would be 100% clear. 

 

More shockingly (given it's not got the excuse of being an old theatre) I have also sat in the stalls at the Paris Opera Bastille, and had a similar issue with not enough rake and the seats not being staggered. I was quite lucky with a shorter man and his young daughter sat in front of me so I had a clear view. But I felt for the (exceptionally well behaved) young girl who clearly struggled to see the stage fully with a taller adult sat in front of her. 

 

I have to admit this has put me off sitting in ROH stalls. I'm not sure I can ever justify affording it but I think I'd like to do it one day for a very special ballet with exceptional casting (Bayadere Nunez/Osipova calls to mind, or perhaps something rarely seen by Ashton or Balanchine). But it appears maybe you'll be better off at the front of the Grand Tier or Balcony? 

[capybara]

The Garnier in Paris has a very pronounced rake, which is a help to the audience but an additional challenge for the dancers.

[Fonty]

Just to clarify that I have been a head weaver myself on many occasions!  There is no other way to ensure you see most of the action.  But it still annoys me that everyone has to do it. 

 

Even more annoying is someone weaving their head in, say, Sadlers Wells, where the sight lines are excellent and there really is no need, even for a short person like me.  I think some people have either a nervous tick, or they like to sway to the music. 

[Sim]

Just now, Fonty said:

Just to clarify that I have been a head weaver myself on many occasions!  There is no other way to ensure you see most of the action.  But it still annoys me that everyone has to do it. 

 

Even more annoying is someone weaving their head in, say, Sadlers Wells, where the sight lines are excellent and there really is no need, even for a short person like me.  I think some people have either a nervous tick, or they like to sway to the music. 

They aren't always excellent at SW....I was there the other day (at the back of the stalls) and there was a very tall man right in front of me.  The seat wasn't staggered so my view was blocked.  Luckily I spotted a free seat a couple of rows ahead and grabbed it.  That seat WAS staggered with the one in front so the view was fine.  

[Lizbie1]

8 minutes ago, Sim said:

They aren't always excellent at SW....I was there the other day (at the back of the stalls) and there was a very tall man right in front of me.  The seat wasn't staggered so my view was blocked. 

 

I've had this problem at SW too - the seats further back in the 2nd circle aren't staggered either.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Lizbie1

[zxDaveM]

2 hours ago, capybara said:

The only way of raking the ROH Stalls slightly more would probably be to  absorb parts of the Stalls Circle into it. 

 

 

As long as they left the SC standing places' view intact, this sounds a great idea 😉

[LinMM]

JNC I could tell you where to sit in the Stalls where you’d always have a perfect view. There are a few end of row seats towards the back of the stalls which look directly down the walk way both on the right hand side and the same over on the left ….doesn’t work for central stalls though. I’ve only sat there once for Nutcracker and booked this seat by chance after had to cancel a couple of shows in December due to bad weather and strikes etc. so decided to treat myself. I thought at the time I could get used to this but the seats were about £150 I think …top price anyway but can’t remember if Nutcracker was £170 for top price but think was the former. 
Front of Balcony is a very good view ….and slightly cheaper if a bit on the side rather than central ( A.54 to about A.62) on the right …before you have to lean forward too much because of the curve of the rail and similar on the left side too. 
Even cheaper ( but not cheap) Is  row D though which I prefer as you have an excellent view because of the way the seats are so nicely raked there and there’s nobody behind you to worry about anyway! 

Edited May 20, 2023 by LinMM

[JNC]

Thanks! I will bear in mind for a special occasion. 

[LinMM]

I was sitting in S.25 in the Stalls December. 
I often see these seats in row T S and R are sold very quickly …mine was a returned ticket …so guess others are in the know too lol! 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by LinMM

[MJW]

Also row H of the Stalls - left and right hand sides (but not the central section) have uninterrupted views as they have the stairwells in front of them.

 

Separately, why is the extreme ends of the stalls circle always curtained off for ballet performances? They are available for opera. I appreciate the views aren't brilliant but no worse than the boxes above.

 

Are they worried that ballet fans will get overexcited and hurl themselves on top of the orchestra?

[Sim]

4 minutes ago, MJW said:

Are they worried that ballet fans will get overexcited and hurl themselves on top of the orchestra?

A definite possibility when Jonathan Lo is conducting!! 

 

[Fonty]

16 hours ago, LinMM said:

JNC I could tell you where to sit in the Stalls where you’d always have a perfect view. There are a few end of row seats towards the back of the stalls which look directly down the walk way both on the right hand side and the same over on the left ….doesn’t work for central stalls though. I’ve only sat there once for Nutcracker and booked this seat by chance after had to cancel a couple of shows in December due to bad weather and strikes etc. so decided to treat myself. I thought at the time I could get used to this but the seats were about £150 I think …top price anyway but can’t remember if Nutcracker was £170 for top price but think was the former. 
Front of Balcony is a very good view ….and slightly cheaper if a bit on the side rather than central ( A.54 to about A.62) on the right …before you have to lean forward too much because of the curve of the rail and similar on the left side too. 
Even cheaper ( but not cheap) Is  row D though which I prefer as you have an excellent view because of the way the seats are so nicely raked there and there’s nobody behind you to worry about anyway! 

 

Row D where?

 

I can see we will all be trying to book the same seats now!

 

With regard to Sadlers Wells. I must admit I have never sat in the stalls there.  I go upstairs, and I usually find the view to be great. 

[Bluebird]

49 minutes ago, MJW said:

Separately, why is the extreme ends of the stalls circle always curtained off for ballet performances? They are available for opera.

 

They're available for operas which only require small orchestras - eg Mozart, Rossini, Handel...etc.  They're curtained off for most other operas.

 

Edited to add that, even for the operas with smaller orchestras, those seats are not usually on sale during the initial booking periods.   I believe they test the level of the decibels produced by the orchestra before they release them.  They need to check that they're at a level which won't damage the hearing of the orchestra members

Edited May 21, 2023 by Bluebird

[capybara]

48 minutes ago, MJW said:

Separately, why is the extreme ends of the stalls circle always curtained off for ballet performances? 

 

Because, when the full orchestra is playing, there are issues relating to health and safety if the instrumentalists under those areas have a low ceiling above them. I believe that it is more about this than the sound quality.

Noticeably, visiting (Russian) orchestras do not have the same legal requirements.

I guess, also, that people will have noticed that various percussion or keyboard instruments are sometimes located in, and played from, those areas. The twelve midnight clock in Cinderella chimed loudly from Stalls Circle Right!!!!

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by capybara

[Amanda Liu]

Just noticed the balcony loose tall seats for the triple bills are now £33, which seems ridiculous to me. The same seats were priced at £30 for Nutcracker and £34 for Sleeping beauty.

[ninamargaret]

When I attended ballet a lot in the 70s/80a my seat of choice was front row stalls. Perfect view - no obstructions as long as you avoided the seats behind the conductor. For some performances centre stalls circle was equally good. After the major revamp, I found that if I sat in front row stalls I could only see dancers from the knees up, and if someone tall was in the back row stalls my stalls circle seat became restricted  view. It seems to me that in an attempt to improve the rake in th stalls they raised the back of the stalls and lowered the front,thus improving some sight lines and making others worse. Wouldn't it be marvellous to have a purpose built theatre for ballet that gave everyone perfect sight lines? We can dream!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dawnstar]

29 minutes ago, ninamargaret said:

Wouldn't it be marvellous to have a purpose built theatre for ballet that gave everyone perfect sight lines? We can dream!

 

The problem with that is then all the tickets that weren't miles from the stage would be top price. At least at the ROH you can sit near the stage at a lower price if you accept the view restriction.

[Lizbie1]

34 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

The problem with that is then all the tickets that weren't miles from the stage would be top price. At least at the ROH you can sit near the stage at a lower price if you accept the view restriction.

 

And it sounds fanciful, but I agree with Barrie Kosky in the Friends magazine: "Some energy from each performance seeps into the atmosphere." New houses, however well-designed (and that's not a given - look at the hopeless sightlines from much of the Linbury theatre) never have the same magic as an old one.

[Pulcinella]

I have just come across a book "The London Spy: A Discreet Guide to the City's Pleasures" dating from 1971 in which there is the following comment on the ROH. "Booking can be difficult and the subscription voucher scheme is worth joining. Otherwise it is a queueing job (at Covent Garden an art in itself) and/or paying up (and it is up to £5.25p). For the poor there are the slips, 50p. which offer an appallingly restricted view but reasonable sound." Those were the days! I remember my first ticket cost 10/6d in the front row of the amphitheatre in 1969. The fact that this same seat can now be over £90 is somewhat horrifying.

[Lizbie1]

50 minutes ago, Pulcinella said:

I have just come across a book "The London Spy: A Discreet Guide to the City's Pleasures" dating from 1971 in which there is the following comment on the ROH. "Booking can be difficult and the subscription voucher scheme is worth joining. Otherwise it is a queueing job (at Covent Garden an art in itself) and/or paying up (and it is up to £5.25p). For the poor there are the slips, 50p. which offer an appallingly restricted view but reasonable sound." Those were the days! I remember my first ticket cost 10/6d in the front row of the amphitheatre in 1969. The fact that this same seat can now be over £90 is somewhat horrifying.

 

Can it be an accident that the top price (£5.25) is five guineas? That would be a fascinating hangover from the days when artists, being gentlemen of a sort, were paid in guineas rather than pounds.

[Fonty]

17 hours ago, Pulcinella said:

I have just come across a book "The London Spy: A Discreet Guide to the City's Pleasures" dating from 1971 in which there is the following comment on the ROH. "Booking can be difficult and the subscription voucher scheme is worth joining. Otherwise it is a queueing job (at Covent Garden an art in itself) and/or paying up (and it is up to £5.25p). For the poor there are the slips, 50p. which offer an appallingly restricted view but reasonable sound." Those were the days! I remember my first ticket cost 10/6d in the front row of the amphitheatre in 1969. The fact that this same seat can now be over £90 is somewhat horrifying.

 

I find the cost of the best amphitheatre seats shocking now.  And you can't even put in a coin and get some opera glasses in order to see the tiny dots on the stage a bit better.  I've forgotten how much those glasses were, btw. 

[bridiem]

In the 1977-1978 season, the rear section of the Amphi cost £1.50, the front sides cost £2.50 and front Amphi cost £3.50. There was no variation according to the production (and full length or triple bill all the same). It would be interesting to know how that compares in real terms to today's prices, in terms of both cost and affordability.

[alison]

I'm pretty certain I remember standing (or something) being £1.65, and I've only been going since 1989!