Hammond vs Elmhurst

[littledancer99]

Hi

can anyone offer a comparison for both of these schools? 

How many other classes do elmhurst offer in addition to ballet

thank you 

 

[Jan McNulty]

I've added a couple of tags at the top of the thread.  If you click on them previous threads about both schools come up where you may find useful information.

[Dancedreamer]

I don't think you can compare them as Hammond is a performing arts school whereas Elmhurst is a ballet school. It would be more appropriate maybe comparing The Hammond with Tring?

[meadowblythe]

I think you can compare any schools in a number of areas:

 

Breadth of dance curriculum

Pastoral Care

Academics

Boarding facilities

Performance Opportunities

Food!

Destination of Leavers

SEND support

Quality of dance tuition

General wellbeing/healthiness of students

Weekend/evening activities for boarders

 

off the top of my head ..

 

[Betty’s mum]

The Hammond, although a performance school puts its main dance focus on Ballet, with the option of choosing the classical route at yr10. This could be an interesting thread.. what comparison RAD level and grades are students achieving, where do pupils go 16+ and onward.. 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, Betty’s mum said:

The Hammond, although a performance school puts its main dance focus on Ballet, with the option of choosing the classical route at yr10. This could be an interesting thread.. what comparison RAD level and grades are students achieving, where do pupils go 16+ and onward.. 

It’s very hard to

compare things like grade work, as the emphasis at the main ballet schools isn’t graded work. 

It may be more pertinent to compare technique work and general ballet performance opportunities. 
 

Exams are a good marker of grades you have achieved, but they are not indicative of judging talent. Just like in academics exam grades aren’t necessarily a marker of intelligence. 

[Betty’s mum]

1 hour ago, OnTheMove said:

It’s very hard to

compare things like grade work, as the emphasis at the main ballet schools isn’t graded work. 

It may be more pertinent to compare technique work and general ballet performance opportunities. 
 

Exams are a good marker of grades you have achieved, but they are not indicative of judging talent. Just like in academics exam grades aren’t necessarily a marker of intelligence. 

I know you can’t compare on grades.. I was just adding it is something further that could be considered… the main emphasis at The Hammond is not graded work either… but comparing technique work may be rather difficult to do. Year 12 places would be a better indicator.. 

[OnTheMove]

14 minutes ago, Betty’s mum said:

I know you can’t compare on grades.. I was just adding it is something further that could be considered… the main emphasis at The Hammond is not graded work either… but comparing technique work may be rather difficult to do. Year 12 places would be a better indicator.. 

I thought compared to the other dance schools the Hammond concentrated more on grades? I suppose it’s not a ballet school, rather a performing arts school. Hence why it’s difficult to compare Elmhurst to Hammond. 
 

Graduate destinations are great to know. Not always easy to find out. I often see that schools use the same success stories from years ago! What is interesting is the current graduate destinations. Which sometimes seems like trying to find out top secret info! 
 

So hard to compare schools. And often children suit different schools. 
 

 

[Betty’s mum]

22 minutes ago, OnTheMove said:

I thought compared to the other dance schools the Hammond concentrated more on grades? I suppose it’s not a ballet school, rather a performing arts school. Hence why it’s difficult to compare Elmhurst to Hammond. 
 

Graduate destinations are great to know. Not always easy to find out. I often see that schools use the same success stories from years ago! What is interesting is the current graduate destinations. Which sometimes seems like trying to find out top secret info! 
 

So hard to compare schools. And often children suit different schools. 
 

 

Performing arts and dance are run totally separate.. Hammond is dance with a ballet specialism.. from what I hear from pupil with siblings at Elmhurst, the standards are not that different. You are right it is about where a pupil is best suited & progress is often greater where you are happy. 

[OnTheMove]

5 minutes ago, Betty’s mum said:

Performing arts and dance are run totally separate.. Hammond is dance with a ballet specialism.. from what I hear from pupil with siblings at Elmhurst, the standards are not that different. You are right it is about where a pupil is best suited & progress is often greater where you are happy. 

Ah right. My understanding was the school has a theatre arts course and then a mixed genre dance course. Also they don’t do a ballet specialism in the upper school do they? Unlike Elmhurst. 
 

I think in terms of ballet you really can’t compare the two schools. Or if you compare the other genres. 
 

I know Elmhurst do some other genres, but the focus is ballet from year 7 until graduate year. 

[Betty’s mum]

6 minutes ago, OnTheMove said:

Ah right. My understanding was the school has a theatre arts course and then a mixed genre dance course. Also they don’t do a ballet specialism in the upper school do they? Unlike Elmhurst. 
 

I think in terms of ballet you really can’t compare the two schools. Or if you compare the other genres. 
 

I know Elmhurst do some other genres, but the focus is ballet from year 7 until graduate year. 

They don’t specialise in Ballet for upper you are right.. that was why I suggested looking at yr12 places gained. As I understand (correct me if I am wrong) many will not move on to Elmhurst upper school either. I do not know what the dance timetable looks like for Elmhurst, and it is possible they do more strictly ballet hours than The Hammond, I will say though The Hammond do many more than I imagined, and more than many are aware. 

[OnTheMove]

2 minutes ago, Betty’s mum said:

They don’t specialise in Ballet for upper you are right.. that was why I suggested looking at yr12 places gained. As I understand (correct me if I am wrong) many will not move on to Elmhurst upper school either. I do not know what the dance timetable looks like for Elmhurst, and it is possible they do more strictly ballet hours than The Hammond, I will say though The Hammond do many more than I imagined, and more than many are aware. 

Unlike some other schools, Elmhurst do take a good proportion of their year 7-11 students into their upper school. It’s very competitive to get into their upper school as an outsider because there isn’t many places available. 
 

A friend of mine told me that it’s half ballet and half other genres at the Hammond? Which does produce a good all round dance education (which is a positive in the current climate). 
 

The majority of the hours at Elmhurst are ballet, with a small amount of other genres. It makes it very hard to compare the two, as their focuses are so different. 
 

I’m not saying one is better than the other, just the focus and specialism of each is very different. 

[margarite]

My DD ( year 11) is at Hammond and took the classical/contemporary elective in year 10 and does around 21 hours of dance a week. She does roughly around 15 hours of ballet, two hour jazz lesson, three hours of contemporary and has one commercial lesson. She did tap until recently, but did her Intermediate exam and think she’s doing extra ballet instead now. The jazz/commercial elective obviously do less ballet and more jazz etc. The first three years were more mixed genre.

I love that she’s had such an all-round dance experience at Hammond (and is currently mulling over three Dada offers 🎉).

[Betty’s mum]

Just now, margarite said:

My DD ( year 11) is at Hammond and took the classical/contemporary elective in year 10 and does around 21 hours of dance a week. She does roughly around 15 hours of ballet, two hour jazz lesson, three hours of contemporary and has one commercial lesson. She did tap until recently, but did her Intermediate exam and think she’s doing extra ballet instead now. The jazz/commercial elective obviously do less ballet and more jazz etc. The first three years were more mixed genre.

I love that she’s had such an all-round dance experience at Hammond (and is currently mulling over three Dada offers 🎉).

Congratulations to your DD, that is a super achievement.. I think having the other dance genres to support ballet is so good.. at the end of the day they all train for eventual employment. My DD is yr9 & is also choosing the classical route. I would be interested to hear where you DD chooses, may PM me, it will come round so soon for us too. Xx

[Newbie126]

I don't think Elmhurst do take a good proportion through to Upper School. I believe the last few years the girls have been less than a handful going from Year 11 into Year 12 ........

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kerfuffle]

5 minutes ago, Newbie126 said:

I don't think Elmhurst do take a good proportion through to Upper School. I believe the last few years the girls have been less than a handful going from Year 11 into Year 12 ........

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where do they go next ? Sounds like there is a lot of shuffling around at 16! 

[OnTheMove]

10 minutes ago, Newbie126 said:

I don't think Elmhurst do take a good proportion through to Upper School. I believe the last few years the girls have been less than a handful going from Year 11 into Year 12 ........

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think it’s because (like other schools) they have been refused a place on the whole.

 

More that they want to take their training down a different route, or simply go elsewhere. 
 

Of course some may be refused a place. But as I said in my original comment, compared to other schools a high proportion go on to their upper school after finishing their lower school. 

[OnTheMove]

7 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Where do they go next ? Sounds like there is a lot of shuffling around at 16! 

Some may take a different route, go abroad etc. Go down the contemporary route. There are lots of reasons. 

[Kerfuffle]

3 minutes ago, OnTheMove said:

Some may take a different route, go abroad etc. Go down the contemporary route. There are lots of reasons. 

Great that they come out with the confidence to explore all sorts of options. 

[The Graceless One]

How many hours of ballet do children in years 10/11 do at Elmhurst? Does anyone know?

[OnTheMove]

2 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Great that they come out with the confidence to explore all sorts of options. 

Yes it’s good to know there are lots of options, even when going to what is considered a pure ballet school. 

[mumtotwoballerinas]

5 hours ago, OnTheMove said:

Unlike some other schools, Elmhurst do take a good proportion of their year 7-11 students into their upper school. It’s very competitive to get into their upper school as an outsider because there isn’t many places available. 
 

A friend of mine told me that it’s half ballet and half other genres at the Hammond? Which does produce a good all round dance education (which is a positive in the current climate). 
 

The majority of the hours at Elmhurst are ballet, with a small amount of other genres. It makes it very hard to compare the two, as their focuses are so different. 
 

I’m not saying one is better than the other, just the focus and specialism of each is very different. 

Ballet has been the main focus of dance course at the hammond with tap and modern istd exams taken. RAD exams are more up to date than some schools in past years. DD in year 8 just taken intermediate. Whatever your opinion of RAD exams it does set a useful  benchmark for where pupils sit, particularly in relation to other schools vocational and no vocational.  Being an MDA school means focus is largely ballet so focus isn't that different.  Year 11 destinations would always be interesting if published. The number going into upper school varies considerably from year to year. Another thing to consider EBS and RBS have MDA available for all who qualify I believe. Hammond, like Tring have a limited number of MDA

[OnTheMove]

15 minutes ago, mumtotwoballerinas said:

Ballet has been the main focus of dance course at the hammond with tap and modern istd exams taken. RAD exams are more up to date than some schools in past years. DD in year 8 just taken intermediate. Whatever your opinion of RAD exams it does set a useful  benchmark for where pupils sit, particularly in relation to other schools vocational and no vocational.  Being an MDA school means focus is largely ballet so focus isn't that different.  Year 11 destinations would always be interesting if published. The number going into upper school varies considerably from year to year. Another thing to consider EBS and RBS have MDA available for all who qualify I believe. Hammond, like Tring have a limited number of MDA

Yes Hammond and Tring don’t have as many MDS awarded  because they’re mixed genre, not pure ballet, schools. 
 

The trouble with exams is that they can take over technique work. (RBS don’t do exams and they’re not as big a focus at Elm, and Tring I think they’re optional). 
 

A child can pass an exam but not necessarily have wonderful technique out of the grade work. That’s the trouble with them in my opinion. They’re useful and do produce a benchmark of sorts but when it comes to a career as a professional ballet dancer they don’t hold up. 

[mumtotwoballerinas]

1 minute ago, OnTheMove said:

Yes Hammond and Tring don’t have as many MDS awarded  because they’re mixed genre, not pure ballet, schools. 
 

The trouble with exams is that they can take over technique work. (RBS don’t do exams and they’re not as big a focus at Elm, and Tring I think they’re optional). 
 

A child can pass an exam but not necessarily have wonderful technique out of the grade work. That’s the trouble with them in my opinion. They’re useful and do produce a benchmark of sorts but when it comes to a career as a professional ballet dancer they don’t hold up. 

Again RAD is not the main focus at the hammond, but a well respected and valuable tool. In the absence of a trinity diploma they are also evidence to potential employers required for work permit and  visa applications.

 

[The Graceless One]

7 hours ago, mumtotwoballerinas said:

Again RAD is not the main focus at the hammond, but a well respected and valuable tool. In the absence of a trinity diploma they are also evidence to potential employers required for work permit and  visa applications.

 

HI, how many hours of ballet are taught in year 8 please? How is that split between general ballet classes and RAD classes? Do they put the children through the exams as a class? And how many hours of dance in total do they do?
 

Sorry for lots of questions xx

[mumtotwoballerinas]

5 hours ago, The Graceless One said:

HI, how many hours of ballet are taught in year 8 please? How is that split between general ballet classes and RAD classes? Do they put the children through the exams as a class? And how many hours of dance in total do they do?
 

Sorry for lots of questions xx

I've sent you a DM 

[Janeparent]

22 hours ago, OnTheMove said:

I don’t think it’s because (like other schools) they have been refused a place on the whole.

 

More that they want to take their training down a different route, or simply go elsewhere. 
 

Of course some may be refused a place. But as I said in my original comment, compared to other schools a high proportion go on to their upper school after finishing their lower school. 

As far as I am aware, it is inaccurate to say that a “high proportion” go on to Elmhurst upper school. This is not my understanding. It would be interesting to know exact numbers from the past few years to clarify this one way or the other, if anybody has these?

[OnTheMove]

2 minutes ago, Janeparent said:

As far as I am aware, it is inaccurate to say that a “high proportion” go on to Elmhurst upper school. This is not my understanding. It would be interesting to know exact numbers from the past few years to clarify this one way or the other, if anybody has these?

The key point is that it’s not a case of being rejected by Elmhurst upper school that stops the students maybe continuing to upper school (like some schools), it’s getting offers from other places too. And that’s their choice. 
 

My original quote, in context, was about comparison, not just a statement of fact. 

[Millicent]

I thought that RBS students do the vocational RAD exams on Saturday mornings, same as Elmhurst? 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, Millicent said:

I thought that RBS students do the vocational RAD exams on Saturday mornings, same as Elmhurst? 

I don’t think that’s the case as a rule. 

[Dance*is*life]

Can someone please tell me what age year 8 children are normally?  Someone mentioned taking RAD Intermediate in Year 8.  I'm curious how old they were.  Our students tend to be 13/14 their Intermediate exam year.  When I was at RBS upper school many decades ago, RAD Majors (Vocational) exams were elective.  Intermediate (now Advanced 1) was the norm for being accepted and we had once a week classes for RAD Advanced (2).   A male student of mine had two years at Elmhurst upper school and took his Advanced 2 there.  The weird thing was that he had to travel down to London HQ to take the exam, but he was still on his own - no other boys !    I'm not sure if either school offers RAD exam classes any more - it's  rare to see a UK student in the Fonteyn (Genee) competition. I have seen the odd candidate from Central in it. 

[DancingShoes]

In the UK they have their 13th birthday in year 8.

[Farawaydancer]

7 minutes ago, Dance*is*life said:

Can someone please tell me what age year 8 children are normally?  Someone mentioned taking RAD Intermediate in Year 8.  I'm curious how old they were.  Our students tend to be 13/14 their Intermediate exam year.  When I was at RBS upper school many decades ago, RAD Majors (Vocational) exams were elective.  Intermediate (now Advanced 1) was the norm for being accepted and we had once a week classes for RAD Advanced (2).   A male student of mine had two years at Elmhurst upper school and took his Advanced 2 there.  The weird thing was that he had to travel down to London HQ to take the exam, but he was still on his own - no other boys !    I'm not sure if either school offers RAD exam classes any more - it's  rare to see a UK student in the Fonteyn (Genee) competition. I have seen the odd candidate from Central in it. 

Year 8 are 12, turning 13. 
 

DS in 6:3 has just taken his Adv2 after a couple of years of delays due to covid and other issues. He was beginning to think he would never get it done! His sister is 15 and just taken Adv1.