What is appropriate for a teacher to do?

[OnTheMove]

A bit of a sensitive subject but what is appropriate touching by a dance teacher? 
 

I ask this because I have seen a public photo on Instagram of a teacher basically sitting on a child! I immediately thought this isn’t appropriate! But if the parent of the child didn’t mind who am I to complain? 
 

I know we are all extra sensitive these days (rightly so) after all we hear about in the media. Where do we draw the line in what’s appropriate?

 

My worry is that so many parents want their kids to be successful that some teachers can take advantage of this. And posting (what I would deem inappropriate) photos for all to see on social media is only normalising the inappropriate behaviour. 
 

I don’t know if I’ve explained myself well but I’m sure others have an opinion on such issues, and it’s an important discussion to be had. 

[Colman]

What on Earth were they trying to achieve? Some sort of old-school stretching thing?

[Jan McNulty]

I'd report them for child cruelty!

[OnTheMove]

2 hours ago, Colman said:

What on Earth were they trying to achieve? Some sort of old-school stretching thing?

A back stretch, sitting on their behind and grabbing them by the armpit! 
Totally the wrong way to do it, normally a teacher would stand behind and hold the arms/hands. 
 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

I'd report them for child cruelty!

The thing is, this teacher isn’t a registered teacher at a school. (They used to have their own school), so it’s really hard to report, I suppose it had to come from the parents. But I’m assuming they’re ok with it! 

[LaCamargo]

Sadly, every day social media reveals some form of inappropriate stretching.

 

Slightly off topic, but I find it worrying when dance organisations are doing so much to raise awareness of what is appropriate touch, safeguarding, safe stretching and then the same  organisations share, for example, instagram posts from high profile registered schools and teachers doing the very things that they have said not to do. 

 

Then there are the images from non-UK schools. I saw an image a day or two ago of a child being forcibly pushed into box splits by the teacher.

 

The move towards gymnastic style use of the body in classical work is creating a very tricky training landscape and that's before we touch on unregulated teachers.

 

Hopefully dance science and medicine being incorporated into teacher training will eventually help to address some of these issues. Let's hope this is the case globally so that young bodies can be trained safely.

 

 

 

 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, LaCamargo said:

Sadly, every day social media reveals some form of inappropriate stretching.

 

Slightly off topic, but I find it worrying when dance organisations are doing so much to raise awareness of what is appropriate touch, safeguarding, safe stretching and then the same  organisations share, for example, instagram posts from high profile registered schools and teachers doing the very things that they have said not to do. 

 

Then there are the images from non-UK schools. I saw an image a day or two ago of a child being forcibly pushed into box splits by the teacher.

 

The move towards gymnastic style use of the body in classical work is creating a very tricky training landscape and that's before we touch on unregulated teachers.

 

Hopefully dance science and medicine being incorporated into teacher training will eventually help to address some of these issues. Let's hope this is the case globally so that young bodies can be trained safely.

 

 

 

 

I hope it changes too. There’s a lot of unsafe practises out there. Touching should be minimal, for safety and so that it can’t be misconstrued for anything else. 
 

Good teachers do touch the students but only with permission and in a way that is the minimum for what is needed. 
 

The teacher I’m talking about is risking a lot by being so blatant with the images of him touching children. Even if it’s innocent, it’s extremely naive and any real professional would not promote images such as the one in question. 
 

What do we do when we see something like that but it’s not our child? Is this how inappropriate behaviour goes on because it’s so hard to do something about it? 
 

I can’t be the only one that sees things like this go on. I wish there was a general register of all dance teachers who work with children. And a board you can go to with any concerns. 

[LaCamargo]

It is incredibly hard to see these images and also, from experience, incredibly hard to escalate it when there is a genuine concern, especially when the ballet/dance world is still populated by many of the 'it never did me any harm' type of teacher and the dance world is an unbelievably small place full of connections.

 

Frightening, very frightening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glowlight]

@OnTheMove - could you report it to the social media platform that you saw it on?  They have teams of people trained to judge whether a post is appropriate or not.

[Beezie]

I actually find that the whole topic of safe/unsafe stretching quite confusing.  There seem to be a lot of philosophies out there, regarding whether any kind of partnered-stretch is healthy/safe.  It still seems to be used quite often in gymnastics and rhythmic gymnastics.

 

I am a little confused about whether this thread is about inappropriate touching or unsafe stretching….or both.  

Edited February 27, 2023 by Beezie
Typo

[OnTheMove]

24 minutes ago, Beezie said:

I actually find that the whole topic of safe/unsafe stretching quite confusing.  There seem to be a lot of philosophies out there, regarding whether any kind of partnered-stretch is healthy/safe.  It still seems to be used quite often in gymnastics and rhythmic gymnastics.

 

I am a little confused about whether this thread is about inappropriate touching or unsafe stretching….or both.  

I started it about inappropriate touching and then someone mentioned unsafe touching. I suppose there is a link between the two in the fact they’re both very unhealthy for a child. But of course inappropriate touching is something different.

I am sure people have witnessed inappropriate touching. But if the parent of the child isn’t worried where can you go? 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, glowlight said:

@OnTheMove - could you report it to the social media platform that you saw it on?  They have teams of people trained to judge whether a post is appropriate or not.

I suppose I could but I doubt it would go anywhere. If you’re outside the dance world you may not see what I see. You may see it as normal. 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, LaCamargo said:

It is incredibly hard to see these images and also, from experience, incredibly hard to escalate it when there is a genuine concern, especially when the ballet/dance world is still populated by many of the 'it never did me any harm' type of teacher and the dance world is an unbelievably small place full of connections.

 

Frightening, very frightening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is so frightening. It makes me wonder about other children this teacher has done the same too. I’ve am just found a video of him with a child that is also inappropriate. It’s bewildering it’s in plain sight like that, but that also normalises it to some extent. 

[LaCamargo]

@Beezie inappropriate touching quite often seen in relation to stretching and unsafe stretching. A colleague and I were recently discussing pictures of an individual  where we were debating how to go about raising our concerns for these same reasons. We cannot find this individual linked to a specific organisation so it is difficult to know how to progress this matter. Very similar situation to that mentioned by OP.

 

Side note - PNF stretching (if that's the type you mean about doing with a partner) is not considered safe for children or teens although may be carried out by therapists and those who have good knowledge about what they are doing.  PNF Stretching: Technique and Guidelines (healthline.com)

 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, LaCamargo said:

@Beezie inappropriate touching quite often seen in relation to stretching and unsafe stretching. A colleague and I were recently discussing pictures of an individual  where we were debating how to go about raising our concerns for these same reasons. We cannot find this individual linked to a specific organisation so it is difficult to know how to progress this matter. Very similar situation to that mentioned by OP.

 

Side note - PNF stretching (if that's the type you mean about doing with a partner) is not considered safe for children or teens although may be carried out by therapists and those who have good knowledge about what they are doing.  PNF Stretching: Technique and Guidelines (healthline.com)

 

This is the issue I’m having. No organisation, or let’s say they run the organisation! 
 

I really wish there was a register for dance teachers. The fact they often work with children makes it more important. 
 

I will keep an eye on the social media of this person. 
 

I am sorry you’re going through this too. It’s a worry. 

[Peanut68]

Talking on phone or online chat or similar to the NSPCC or Childline - even anonymously - could be a starting point to assess if your genuine concerns are of a matter that shows a child/children/persons to be at risk & they can advise on best course of actions. I do believe there are stronger jaws in place or coming making it necessary for any teacher etc to report anything untoward to agencies such as police or social services 

[OnTheMove]

8 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Talking on phone or online chat or similar to the NSPCC or Childline - even anonymously - could be a starting point to assess if your genuine concerns are of a matter that shows a child/children/persons to be at risk & they can advise on best course of actions. I do believe there are stronger jaws in place or coming making it necessary for any teacher etc to report anything untoward to agencies such as police or social services 

Yes good idea about childline etc. 

 

It makes you wonder how many are getting away with inappropriate behaviour if some feel happy showing it in plain sight. 

[Peanut68]

54 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Talking on phone or online chat or similar to the NSPCC or Childline - even anonymously - could be a starting point to assess if your genuine concerns are of a matter that shows a child/children/persons to be at risk & they can advise on best course of actions. I do believe there are stronger jaws in place or coming making it necessary for any teacher etc to report anything untoward to agencies such as police or social services 

Laws not jaws!! Must proofread in future 😂