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Doing music instead of dance


invisiblecircus

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Two of my DD's have decided to focus more on music while continuing with dance. Does anyone know if there is a forum similar to this one but for music?
Sorry for posting here instead of the "Not Dance" forum but I seem to recall a couple of posters mentioning that they also have children at music schools and I don't know if everyone looks at the other forum. 

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Actually, I tell a lie.  There is a long running, very active, music thread on a popular parenting forum.  Lots of us on there with a range of ages from primary to degree level, beginners to JD to specialist school to conservatoire and every level of recreational inbetween.

 

I am not sure if I am allowed to mention the name on here but it is one of the most well known forums.

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3 hours ago, Jewel said:

Actually, I tell a lie.  There is a long running, very active, music thread on a popular parenting forum.  Lots of us on there with a range of ages from primary to degree level, beginners to JD to specialist school to conservatoire and every level of recreational inbetween.

 

I am not sure if I am allowed to mention the name on here but it is one of the most well known forums.

Yes you can!  As long as people keep posting about dance on this Forum!!

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Good luck to your budding musician!  That was my forte in school and both my kiddies do it too (the non-dancer to a greater extent.)

 

We have started going to the Music Universities in the area.  Commonly, students will post advertisements for lessons there.  We have gotten some of the best budding music teachers from that strategy.  Plus I always feel great paying university students, as I know they are just starting out in the world. And their age usually makes them more relevant to my kids.  ( The next best option is to ask a secondary school for recommendations….they usually have a list of favorite private teachers for each instrument.)

 

Prior, we went to more established music teachers and had some really poor experiences.  Grumpy, too strict teachers…some with questionable music skills themselves.  Or they wanted to turn my children into little prodigies, with constant disappointment when my kids were only learning on a ‘normal’ trajectory.  Plus $$$.

 

Music is so different from the dance world.  It is not nearly as cut-throat and competitive.  In fact, when my older daughter got into music, I breathed such a sigh of relief as I knew she would be hanging with a good, friendly, studious, and supportive crowd.  The band/orchestra kids in school are always very grounded and wholesome.

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Forty years after leaving school, the only school friends with whom I  (double bass, piano and singing) am still in touch are fellow music people: most of them have music careers, I don't (too lazy to practise but I'm a kick-arse sight reader).

 

After twelve years of ballet lessons and easily the same on piano, I am a reasonably educated audience member but more to the point I love watching ballet and listening to "classical" music. Whether or not your DC makes a career of music and/or dance, they are setting themselves up for a lifetime of pleasure engendered by others' hard work.

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Lovely to see there are other parents with musical kids here! The ballet world seems particularly challenging but I think it’s pretty competitive and stressful in music too especially classical instruments such as violin which also has a huge amount of child prodigies starting at the age of 3! What I do love about music from my son’s experience is how once you get beyond the pain barrier of practice and acquire enough skills to just play with others it’s truly joyful. Just getting to that point takes tremendous effort ! 

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1 minute ago, Kerfuffle said:

once you get beyond the pain barrier of practice and acquire enough skills to just play with others it’s truly joyful.

 

Hmm yes try telling that to the violin prodigy with perfect pitch and the hard-working cellist our school forced to have me as their pianist 🤣

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On 28/01/2023 at 07:01, Beezie said:

 

 

Music is so different from the dance world.  It is not nearly as cut-throat and competitive.  In fact, when my older daughter got into music, I breathed such a sigh of relief as I knew she would be hanging with a good, friendly, studious, and supportive crowd.  The band/orchestra kids in school are always very grounded and wholesome.

 

 

Sorry, but my experience is  that there are remarkable similarities between the two. Favouritism,  cliques forming, mental health and physical health issues,  but also strong bonds and friendships which endure.  And the chance of a professional career post conservatoire purely in an orchestra is probably about the same too.

 

Probably at top level even more elitist .. instruments can run into the high tens of thousands to buy!

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I agree that music is just as competitive, and for some instruments (piano, violin) possibly even more so.

 

A dancers career is so much shorter. A musician can go on for decades, and it can be an impossibly long wait for a "dead man's shoes" position.

 

There is also not the clear career progression you have from corps de ballet through the principal. So you can end up being 5th desk, second violins for life and never be a soloist. In fact, most soloists don't grow up through a professional orchestra, they start life as soloists!

 

 

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Well, for all those who have musicians and dancers in the family, my news is that my bassoonist daughter(22) has combined a final degree project at the Royal Birmingham Conservatoire into her first production with her dancing sister as artistic director(19) and created their first professional production, the Knight's Move, which you will find listed on another link under Ballet/ Dance news. The principle choreographer is Jamie Carter of the Capital Ballet, London. He has designed a piece especially for the suite of music chosen by my musician for her wind quintet, and then suggested another suite, which has had to be adapted by her from the original arrangement, and using all her musical skills to analyse , decompose and then transpose accordingly. The dancers will then have fun to show off some of their favourite solos without the constraints of assessments or curriculum, just dancing for the sheer love of the art. Does it get any better than that for dancers and musicians? 

 

So there is hope for you all out there wondering how far vocational studies will take your offspring. And some reward for the patience of us parents. This performance will be the first time our two have shared a stage for 10 years, since the ballerina went to vocational training in another city and the musician stayed behind until she too moved away for her studies. Too often we have not had chance to see them perform, but this we won't miss.

 

At present, every one of those tutus that served my daughter for YAGP and other competitions, and a few new ones, some made professionally and some borrowed, are being brought into service and redressed, by my daughter and I, to suit the roles, for use by the small company of professional(LSC alumni) and final year students from London Studio Centre that make up the Kinetic Ballet Ensemble. It has been rewarding for all concerned to collaborate outside of college on a stand-alone event and gives another experience for the curriculum vitae for all.

 

If any of you are in or around Birmingham on the 14th February, we would love to see you at the Crescent Theatre , Birmingham at 19.00. Tickets are on sale via the theatre website or box office. But please feel free to follow events via the social media links. If we can offer some encouragement to others it will make us happy.

 

For those talking about the cost of instruments, they don't get much more expensive than a bassoon. My daughter has spent years working for months every summer trying to pay hers off. I won't tell you what it costs, because it would make your hair curl. Although a bassoonist is always a popular player, for the shortage of them, there are still not so many places in orchestras as violins for example. As parents, we had to encourage the girls to pursue their talents as far as they could go with them, because you may not get the chance later, whereas other careers can come later if necessary. In fact my daughter dedicates her event, the Knight's Move to her grandfather, who gave up his scholarship to study violin at the Northern School of Music, 70 years ago after a lack of support by his father, swapped pathway, and  spent his life in the NHS dental service for 40 years . There are many patients who were very grateful he never became leader of the LSO or such, but it was him who encouraged her to try the bassoon. He never acheived the artistic heights he had been destined to reach, and had to content himself to amateur orchestras. I didn't appreciate his sacrifice till many years later. Unfortunately he died before my daughter had even taken Grade 1, and he never saw the ballerina dance on stage.  So this is special for us, particularly the bassoonist.

 

 

 

 

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@LusodancerHow wonderful that your musician and dancer are getting to work together! My daughter has danced with professional ensembles before but never combined with my son yet, who is a singer. I think these moments are extremely special! 
My daughter also plays the bassoon but only for fun as the ballet hours are so demanding she can’t get enough practice time. Her teacher has found a lot of gorgeous music for her, often ballet related. It’s sad your grandfather never heard or saw them continue his legacy but it’s lovely to know it lives on in them. 
 

@SplitSoulThe expense of training is considerable for both - the singer might take 7  years to get there and he’s just at the beginning even though he’s older. Both fields are hugely competitive! 

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I agree both dance and music are expensive, although for music it does depend a bit on what instrument you play. Some instruments are expensive to buy (like if you need family of clarinets) and bassoon reeds certainly don't come cheap! But then again, neither to pointe shoes.

 

Music requires more 1:1 lessons, but I think there are more opportunities to participate in free stuff (like church or cathedral choirs), school orchestra etc. 

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On 01/02/2023 at 09:19, SplitSoul said:

I agree both dance and music are expensive, although for music it does depend a bit on what instrument you play. Some instruments are expensive to buy (like if you need family of clarinets) and bassoon reeds certainly don't come cheap! But then again, neither to pointe shoes.

 

Music requires more 1:1 lessons, but I think there are more opportunities to participate in free stuff (like church or cathedral choirs), school orchestra etc. 

Absolutely true that there are great opportunities like being a chorister, although most cathedrals are attached to private schools so there are hidden costs if the cathedral/school  can’t offer a full scholarship. Not many state schools have orchestras at a high level unfortunately, we are lucky ours is great but it’s unusual in our area. We have been advised to look for further funding to assist with the financial side of conservatoire training  - I haven’t come across parents doing the same for their dancing children - is this because fewer charities want to support dancers? 

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I suspect music has a wider appeal, because you can do it very effectively at amateur level, from pretty basic through to almost pro. It is also open to more people: age and physical condition being the most obvious. You can get immense pleasure from playing piano duets at home, right through to performing in a massive symphony orchestra or opera.

 

You can't just ask your ballet friend over and have a quick dance in your living room for fun, in the same way as you can ask 3 other string players over and bash through some quartets.

 

Many schools (sadly not all) offer music lessons of some sort. Sometimes free or cheap. No state school I have ever seen offers ballet classes. Not sure I have seen a public school that offers ballet (apart from voc or specialist schools).

 

Re the availability of funds, I am guessing, but:

 

The people who set up funds for educating the young are more likely to have had some music education and far less likely to have had ballet lessons to any serious level.

 

Also, ballet is female dominated at non-pro level. Setting up trusts, raising funds, running charities etc is at best gender neutral, at worst male dominated. 

 

Their agenda is therefore more likely to be on what they personally like, value and have some experience of. Music is just more likely to be that thing, not dance, let alone ballet. Sadly.

 

 

 

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All excellent points @SplitSoul although I’d expect it’s a pretty rare state school these days that can afford free one to one lessons. The nearest we got was learning the recorder and small groups charged less for violin but never one to one. Music training is very expensive and conservatoires have lower proportions of  state school kids enrolled than Oxbridge. 
 

I think there is also a bit of snobbery involved in music being taken more seriously than ballet.  
 

Maybe it’s different in Russia where they see it as central to their culture, a bit like Italians and opera, and there is a broader reach in the population? 
 

Your gender bias comment is sadly probably true. So much money is invested in sport too probably because of male support. 
 

 

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US still offers music (instrument or choir) in most public schools.  Usually around Gr 4 or 5, children choose an instrument or choir.  They then receive group instruction in-school.  And honestly, group instruction is all they need in those first years.  

 

It is sad to hear that this isn’t the standard everywhere.  For most US kids, they see this as their first ‘important’ school decision and look forward to it immensely.  Picking your instrument comes with excitement I could only equate to the Hogwarts sorting hat.  It is also economically inclusive, for the most part…though instrument rental of $100-$200/yr could be taxing to some families.  Coming from a family that struggled to make ends meet, this was the one thing they COULD give me.


Most US kids go into music with no pressure or professional aspiration….it’s just cool and fun.  It sticks for some, and others get bored and move on to sports, art etc.  It is up to the student to make of it what they will.

 

Haha, when my daughter was 3 and in a weekly tutu class, I thought ballet would be like music.  I very naively assumed kids just ‘did it for fun’ until teen years….and only then decided if it was going to be a serious activity.  Que ‘rude awakening.’  I seriously went through stages: Disbelief, denial, validation, acceptance….  I joined the forum while in ‘validation’ mode….maybe now closer to acceptance? 😂

 

 

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So true. Classical ensembles have been squeezed out of the state sector by misplaced good intentions. Result? It’s become the preserve of the private schools where it flourishes at great expense. My son having only had the chance of musicals at school can’t believe the rich opportunities at university for small ensembles and groups of friends (not studying music). However, even with an ARSM distinction he has yet to break into the orchestras because he doesn’t have school contacts or Youth orchestra contacts (we live in the sticks), or any orchestral experience, so the state-school disadvantage persists.

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You guessed it: flute! Can also play piccolo. He’s tried a good quality Town/gown non-audition orchestra but they don’t have space. He’s resigned to waiting till post-university when, as you say, you can generally  find good amateur orchestras, but will keep auditioning every term and meanwhile has plenty of small ensemble opportunities. It’s just a bit disappointing after he’d been looking forward to the sort of things prospectuses waft at you. Part of the problem is that students do the auditioning so take their own, and this year’s lot were somewhat disorganised (eg the flautist not turning up to the panel auditioning the flute players).

Honestly my main gripe is that outside of the South East state schools have expunged classical music from their activities for ideological reasons at the time that funding has also been cut to the bone at county level too It has made classical music only for an elite. Surely you break down barriers by offering something widely, not by deeming it too exclusive for the masses!

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Ah, flute is the worst for this! I would try and find out who the existing flautist are in the orchestra he wants to play. Offer to dep for them if they can't make a rehearsal, at short notice, whatever part. That way you build up the contact and make yourself first port of call. Eventually you get in, if you are reliable, well prepared and helpful.

 

Same goes for amateur orchestras, and if you meet the right people there, you can really build up lots of depping contacts. Amazing how often a player is sick on the concert day! 

 

Good luck!

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