When are they ready to go on pointe?

[dancermum678]

Hi, my daughter is 11 and is getting conflicting information re the transition to pointe work.

Her main teacher is adamant she isn’t ready yet and I have to say I agree with her. But the teachers at her associate programme have told her that she’ll be held back if she’s not on pointe as the rest of the girls in her class are (she’s one of the youngest in her group)

I am sure there’s plenty of discussion on this in the forums but I didn’t manage to find it! 
Thanks everyone 

[dancermum678]

I should also add that I have not spoken to the associate programme about this… I am going only on my 11 year old’s interpretation of the conversations and she’s desperate for pointe shoes like they all are! 

[LinMM]

I would listen to the teacher who sees her most often to be honest. 
It is difficult when you’re possibly being nagged to get pointe shoes but it’s better for a child’s feet to wait until they are ready and less likely to get into bad habits too!! 
Is your daughter doing any grade exams? 
Perhaps when at Intermediate foundation level would be a good time to start pointe work. 
If she is older as started later as it were then teachers advice is best. 

Erring on the side of caution is not a bad thing where pointe work is concerned!! 
 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Dancermummy678 and welcome to the Forum!

[Jan McNulty]

Here are some older threads where there may be useful information/advice:

 

 

 

 

[dancermum678]

3 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

Here are some older threads where there may be useful information/advice:

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much, I knew there would be some! (Operator error!)

[dancermum678]

27 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I would listen to the teacher who sees her most often to be honest. 
It is difficult when you’re possibly being nagged to get pointe shoes but it’s better for a child’s feet to wait until they are ready and less likely to get into bad habits too!! 
Is your daughter doing any grade exams? 
Perhaps when at Intermediate foundation level would be a good time to start pointe work. 
If she is older as started later as it were then teachers advice is best. 

Erring on the side of caution is not a bad thing where pointe work is concerned!! 
 

Erring on the side of caution is definitely where I am at too! Thank you 

[Pas de Quatre]

If your dd is one of the youngest there may be nearly a year, or several months, between her and the oldest dancers in her year.  Lots of physical development can happen in a year so they may be at different stages of growth. Go with her regular teacher's advice. Remember how new mothers discussed each milestone in baby's development?  When did they sit up, when did they walk? Sometimes quite a big gap at the time, but unless there is a real medical problem, once they are toddlers and rushing around nobody can see any difference between early and late walkers!

[dancermum678]

Thanks everyone. This is all reassuring. I’m 

[Pas de Quatre]

I would be rather sceptical about the merits of this Associate scheme. If they are so 'one size fits all' in this instance, it is worrying, and the quality of teaching may not be very good in other aspects.  Doesn't matter if it is a well known name.

[LinMM]

Also if the Associate teacher is rather insistent then you could mention to her that your daughters regular teacher wants her to wait a while and I’m sure if she sees there’s a conflict she will support your daughters teacher especially as she is that much younger ( which she may have forgotten of course!!) 

Edited November 28, 2022 by LinMM

[glowlight]

As others have said, I would be guided by your regular teacher.  She knows your dd best, and what's more you can't really ask her to let your dd go en pointe if she doesn't think she is ready.  Your option would be to change schools.

 

Having said that, it might be worth having a word with the associate scheme to see what their view is.  It may be that a message has been lost in translation on the way home!  

[dancermum678]

39 minutes ago, glowlight said:

As others have said, I would be guided by your regular teacher.  She knows your dd best, and what's more you can't really ask her to let your dd go en pointe if she doesn't think she is ready.  Your option would be to change schools.

 

Having said that, it might be worth having a word with the associate scheme to see what their view is.  It may be that a message has been lost in translation on the way home!  

Yes definitely wonder if something has been lost in translation! My daughter is usually quite savvy but think she’s feeling a little left out. She thinks she’s older than she actually is…

[LaCamargo]

I feel very strongly that pointe readiness is a much-neglected area in teacher training. So much more knowledge is available now. Some very useful information may be found here:

 

https://iadms.org/media/5779/iadms-resource-paper-guidelines-for-initiating-pointe-training.pdf

 

and here:

 

https://www.physio-pedia.com/Pre-Pointe_Assessment
 

 

 

 

 

[dancermum678]

1 hour ago, LaCamargo said:

I feel very strongly that pointe readiness is a much-neglected area in teacher training. So much more knowledge is available now. Some very useful information may be found here:

 

https://iadms.org/media/5779/iadms-resource-paper-guidelines-for-initiating-pointe-training.pdf

 

and here:

 

https://www.physio-pedia.com/Pre-Pointe_Assessment
 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting reads, thank you! 

[drdance]

Definitely wait if you are unsure. Most of the major vocational schools don't begin pointe until midway through year 7, and that is after daily ballet classes including pre-pointe strengthening work. If you are unclear about the associate teachers comments then perhaps speak to them to clarify what was said - it might be that it was a blanket statement to a whole group of girls grouped by a school year and as others have said, there's a lot of difference between a September birthday and a July birthday! (not to mention number of hours training, individual strength levels, maturity etc).

[Pas de Quatre]

Also, many Associate schemes group several school years together, so the age difference might be a couple of years or more.

[dancermum678]

Yes that’s what has happened- she’s the only 11 year old in her class I think. The rest are older and she’s not used to being one of the little ones! I have read a lot of the info people have suggested to me and am very happy that her teacher at her “home” school is correct in her decision. She’s told her what she needs to work on in order to be more ready as she does by strength/ ability rather than age and it’s up to my daughter now if she puts the work in or not!

[glowlight]

5 hours ago, dancermum678 said:

as she does by strength/ ability

I'm so happy to hear this.  It sounds as if you have a good teacher and you are wise to respect her opinion.

[Dance*is*life]

I think it also depends on what level the pointe work is that they teach at the Associate classes.  We start pointe work at IF level, but they spend weeks on the barre just doing rises and relevés on two feet, so if I have the odd 11 year old in the class  (they're usually 12 or nearly 12 by that level)  I am not too worried about their overdoing it.  The problems arrive when they attend outside classes such as in summer courses.  The level of pointework expected is often higher than what they have reached with us, but that's only for a week or two and I don't mind them trying to rise to the challenge - it often gives them more confidence to try things in regular classes.  Associate classes are a different kettle of fish entirely and I do agree with the others here, that it's probably wiser to listen to her regular teacher.   

[mumofdd]

My daughter has incredibly strong legs and feet. She got her first pair of pointe shoes in August this year, a couple of months before turning 12, and was able to do beautiful arabesques etc almost straight away. She took her IF exam at the weekend.

 

She is young compared to others. They don't go en pointe until they are strong enough. Many in DD's school are 13/14 years and some never go en pointe. It's definitely not something that should be rushed!

[Kanangra]

You could take her to a physio for an assessment. It's commonly done here, a physio who specialises in dance is best obviously.

 

 

[alison]

Where's "here", Kanangra?  It may just be the name, but I always get the impression you're in Australia

[dancermum678]

15 hours ago, Kanangra said:

You could take her to a physio for an assessment. It's commonly done here, a physio who specialises in dance is best obviously.

 

 

I don’t know if that’s a thing here in the U.K. but thanks for the suggestion. 

[junedancer]

4 hours ago, dancermum678 said:

I don’t know if that’s a thing here in the U.K. but thanks for the suggestion. 

You could contact Luke Abnett, The Ballet Physio.

[Kanangra]

On 10/12/2022 at 00:24, alison said:

Where's "here", Kanangra?  It may just be the name, but I always get the impression you're in Australia

Yes I am in Australia  (but my daughter is dancing in the UK).

[SplitSoul]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wloq2FeUFdM&feature=shares

 

How about this 6 year old?!?!?!

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

17 minutes ago, SplitSoul said:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wloq2FeUFdM&feature=shares

 

How about this 6 year old?!?!?!

 

 

 

I gather that this young lady has recently graduated from the Vaganova into the Mariinsky.  Nevertheless this film made me feel very uncomfortable.

[dancermum678]

21 minutes ago, SplitSoul said:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wloq2FeUFdM&feature=shares

 

How about this 6 year old?!?!?!

 

 

That poor child… but at the same time I can’t stop watching it. 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

This is her at 10 as Odile. Lada was trained rigorously from a very young age. Pointe at 6 though is very early and I have never heard of it in the U.K.

Meanwhile Dd1 was just starting pointe a couple of months before she turned 11 but started with just rises at the barre and then did IF ballet exam. We struggled to get pointe shoes as she was only a size 13 but luckily size 1 Grishko fit and was the smallest shoe in U.K. You could get smaller abroad though. Dd2 started at 13.
 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Mummy twinkle toes
More information

[Mummy twinkle toes]

This is her last year 

 

 

I do remember hearing that when she started at Vaganova they were steadier with her training. 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Mummy twinkle toes
Typo

[Peanut68]

1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I gather that this young lady has recently graduated from the Vaganova into the Mariinsky.  Nevertheless this film made me feel very uncomfortable.

Yep…. Me too. Utterly wrong…. Frankly I think it’s child abuse IMHO.

And as for later clip performing Odette/Odilr aged 10 partnered by a mature male…. Skin crawling. Nothing against precocious talent & there are always teachers/parents & young kids eager to be way advanced beyond years in many fields…. But when you add the element of the story to these it’s really paedophilic to have a young child in a full performance role…& can’t help but think, isn’t telling the story in a believable way the main point of a ballet like Swan Lake? 

[alison]

I couldn't agree more.  I had to stop watching.  And anyway, that role needs to be performed by a woman, not a child.