Mayerling, Royal Ballet Autumn 2022

[Lizbie1]

But Mozart operas are routinely cut: sometimes because arias were only put in to occupy certain singers (parallels with giving the corps something to do in the brothel scene?) and sometimes because, well, his operas can be a bit on the long side. I certainly wish that the Marriage of Figaro would wrap up a bit more quickly!

 

Even geniuses generally benefit from a good editor.

[Sim]

12 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

But Mozart operas are routinely cut: sometimes because arias were only put in to occupy certain singers (parallels with giving the corps something to do in the brothel scene?) and sometimes because, well, his operas can be a bit on the long side. I certainly wish that the Marriage of Figaro would wrap up a bit more quickly!

 

Even geniuses generally benefit from a good editor.

Depends on your point of view.  Many operas are also long because the audience expected it; they didn't have a TV to go home to, so the entertainment had to last until bedtime. 

  

[zxDaveM]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

Here, I think of The Boxer by Simon & Garfunkel:  ".....just to come home from the whores on 7th Avenue. I do declare, there were times when I was so lonesome I took some comfort there."  Rudolf in his own loneliness clearly also takes comfort amongst those ladies of the night.

 

 

 

 

pedant corner, the verse actually goes:

 

Asking only workman's wages
I come looking for a job
But I get no offers
Just a come-on from the whores on Seventh Avenue
I do declare there were times when I was so lonesome
I took some comfort there

 

Still dislike that scene in the ballet though. The best version was when Leanne Cope was a 'lady of the evening' - when the rozzers raided she would make a dive for the Madam's lecturn thingy, and stick as much cash as she could into her bra!

[zxDaveM]

17 minutes ago, Sim said:

Many operas are also long because the audience expected it; they didn't have a TV to go home to, so the entertainment had to last until bedtime. 

  

 

for me, 'bedtime' would have been about 10-15mins in... 😉

 

[Sim]

1 minute ago, zxDaveM said:

 

pedant corner, the verse actually goes:

 

Asking only workman's wages
I come looking for a job
But I get no offers
Just a come-on from the whores on Seventh Avenue
I do declare there were times when I was so lonesome
I took some comfort there

 

Still dislike that scene in the ballet though. The best version was when Leanne Cope was a 'lady of the evening' - when the rozzers raided she would make a dive for the Madam's lecturn thingy, and stick as much cash as she could into her bra!

Ah well, whatever.  If he took some comfort there I assume that he must have come home from them, too...but you are right.  

[Balletfanp]

2 hours ago, alison said:

I do think it would have helped the cinema transmission, though, if a couple of seconds had been taken to point out that the Hungarian officers were actually trying to involve Rudolf in their separatist cause.  I know some people in the cinema were confused about what on earth was happening there.

I agree. It’s my main bugbear about the ballet. If you’re a casual ballet-goer and only have a vague idea about the story, you would be completely confused by what the Officers are up to. They aren’t even mentioned at all in the synopsis (not the one they gave us in the cinema, anyway).

[Dawnstar]

13 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said:

Why apologise? As my first sentence makes clear, I find it interesting to see the completely different reactions of people to the same performance. And I acknowledged that I was probably in a minority.

 

Because you've clearly seen far, far more Mayerlings than I have so I think your reaction is far more valid than mine.

 

Yesterday I spent some time looking up most of the Mayerling historical personalities. While I had assumed that MacMillan had taken some artistic licence with reality, I didn't realise he'd taken quite so much artistic licence! Finding out Archduchess Sophie had actually died nearly a decade before Prince Rudolf's marriage was certainly a surprise.

[Sim]

10 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Because you've clearly seen far, far more Mayerlings than I have so I think your reaction is far more valid than mine.

 

Yesterday I spent some time looking up most of the Mayerling historical personalities. While I had assumed that MacMillan had taken some artistic licence with reality, I didn't realise he'd taken quite so much artistic licence! Finding out Archduchess Sophie had actually died nearly a decade before Prince Rudolf's marriage was certainly a surprise.

I have been watching Mayerling for decades and had the same reaction as you did….number of times seen doesn’t matter when it comes to how it makes you feel.  

[maryrosesatonapin]

30 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Because you've clearly seen far, far more Mayerlings than I have so I think your reaction is far more valid than mine.

 

Yesterday I spent some time looking up most of the Mayerling historical personalities. While I had assumed that MacMillan had taken some artistic licence with reality, I didn't realise he'd taken quite so much artistic licence! Finding out Archduchess Sophie had actually died nearly a decade before Prince Rudolf's marriage was certainly a surprise.

I also spent some time looking into the further lives of some of the women portrayed in the ballet.  I felt particularly sorry for Princess Stephanie and wondered if she had caught syphilis from Rudolph and died young, but no, she remarried after his death and lived a long and hopefully peaceful life.

[Sebastian]

7 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

I spent some time looking up most of the Mayerling historical personalities. While I had assumed that MacMillan had taken some artistic licence with reality, I didn't realise he'd taken quite so much artistic licence! Finding out Archduchess Sophie had actually died nearly a decade before Prince Rudolf's marriage was certainly a surprise.

 
Well spotted Dawnstar! In the ballet Archduchess Sophie has one significant function (apart from personifying court tradition by her costume and bearing): when the painting of the Emperor’s mistress is presented to him by his wife, only his mother Sophie objects. 
 

By the way there is a nice story here about the 85 year old Marcia Haydée taking the role of Sophie:

 

https://www.tanznetz.de/de/article/2022/i-see-whole-picture-me

[Jamesrhblack]

10 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Because you've clearly seen far, far more Mayerlings than I have so I think your reaction is far more valid than mine.

 

Yesterday I spent some time looking up most of the Mayerling historical personalities. While I had assumed that MacMillan had taken some artistic licence with reality, I didn't realise he'd taken quite so much artistic licence! Finding out Archduchess Sophie had actually died nearly a decade before Prince Rudolf's marriage was certainly a surprise.

Not at all. Each artistic response has its validity. Indeed, a fresh one may have more validity than that of an old lag.

 

There are a couple of interesting books around the scandal at Mayerling. Greg King and Penny Wilson’s Twilight of Empire is very well researched and reaches conclusions that may surprise those of us whose greatest awareness of this part of history had hitherto been via the ballet.

 

As with Anastasia, I think MacMillan isn’t necessarily looking for historical accuracy but is using episodes with an historical origin more widely to explore themes that interested him, such as identity and the outsider. Shakespeare and Schiller have similar approaches in their own history plays.

 

 

[Amelia]

23 hours ago, JohnS said:

I very much enjoyed Saturday evening’s performance - the cinema cast. Osipova and Hirano were hugely impressive. Rather oddly I thought Osipova was at her most explosive in the card scene where her delight in what the cards told her was veering on the manic. But the Hirano/Osipova PDDs ratcheted up the tension and I found their final scene compelling.

 

I also was impressed with Osipova’s acting in a 'fortune-telling' scene. There was so much trepidation in her and her short solo dance after the card was opened was almost childlike rapturous.
Someone on the forum mentioned earlier that her Maria Vetsera was too “knowing”, that is, experienced in her behaviour for a 17-year-old girl. I noticed too that she was acting pretty daringly from the very first moment and how invitingly she opened her coat and appeared in a light black negligee. However, considering her infatuation with the Crown Prince such behaviour can be justified. She sighed over his portrait, idolized him, dreamed of him and imagined how she would fall into his arms. And, of course, Larish, whose goal was to please and save Rudolf, kindled her expectations, encouraged her and most likely instructed her. Maria knew why she was brought to his bedroom, she herself longed for this meeting and was not going to be shy, she was ready to give herself to her desired one.
As one of the critics wrote about Osipova’s performance: "She gave everything and even more.” I also found her performance last Saturday compelling. As well as others on that night: Hirano, Morera, Hayward...

[alison]

All the signs were that Vetsera was hardly as pure as the driven snow at the age of 17, weren't they?

[Dawnstar]

23 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I also spent some time looking into the further lives of some of the women portrayed in the ballet.  I felt particularly sorry for Princess Stephanie and wondered if she had caught syphilis from Rudolph and died young, but no, she remarried after his death and lived a long and hopefully peaceful life.

 

Unfortunately Mitzi Kaspar did apparently die of syphilis, though in her case presumably there were men other than Prince Rudolf who she could have caught it from.

 

16 hours ago, Sebastian said:

 Well spotted Dawnstar! In the ballet Archduchess Sophie has one significant function (apart from personifying court tradition by her costume and bearing): when the painting of the Emperor’s mistress is presented to him by his wife, only his mother Sophie objects. 
 

By the way there is a nice story here about the 85 year old Marcia Haydée taking the role of Sophie:

 

https://www.tanznetz.de/de/article/2022/i-see-whole-picture-me

 

Thank you for the link to that article. I found it fascinating. I wish I could get to Munich to see Rose's Mayerling production. (I was fortunate enough to see his Rosenkavalier production in Munich back in 2006 for my 21st birthday.)

 

13 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said:

Not at all. Each artistic response has its validity. Indeed, a fresh one may have more validity than that of an old lag.

 

There are a couple of interesting books around the scandal at Mayerling. Greg King and Penny Wilson’s Twilight of Empire is very well researched and reaches conclusions that may surprise those of us whose greatest awareness of this part of history had hitherto been via the ballet.

 

As with Anastasia, I think MacMillan isn’t necessarily looking for historical accuracy but is using episodes with an historical origin more widely to explore themes that interested him, such as identity and the outsider. Shakespeare and Schiller have similar approaches in their own history plays.

 

I probably should try to read up more about it. I only became aware of the Mayerling scandal when I looked up the last Emperor of Austria, after happening to see his grave when visting Madeira in 2015.

Meanwhile, I'm musing on when exactly the Act II party scene is supposed to take place, given Princess Stephanie gave birth to her only child in 1883 but Emperor Franz Joseph first met Katherina Schratt in 1885 & Prince Rudolf first met Mary Vetsera in 1888. I suspect there's no right answer to this one...

Edited October 18, 2022 by Dawnstar
Spelling

[zxDaveM]

10 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Meanwhile, I'm musing on when exactly the Act II party scene is supposed to take place, given Princess Stephanie gave birth to her only child in 1883 but Emperor Franz Joseph first met Katherina Schratt in 1885 & Prince Rudolf first met Mary Vetsera in 1888. I suspect there's no right answer to this one...

 

chalk it up to artistic license 🙂

 

[DVDfan]

Was it Picasso who said that all art is a lie, but it should be a lie that shows us the truth? So maybe the question about Mayerling the ballet is not whether the historical detail is correct (which it isn't) but whether it tells us the truth about each person involved.

[Emeralds]

I gather that if MacMillan had stuck to the facts that had historical proof, it would be a much more boring ballet, as he and Stephanie were reportedly quite amicable or even devoted to each other at the time of their wedding, and only drifted apart later, the real life Marie Larisch wasn’t an ex lover but his first cousin whom he was close to almost like a sister (he paid her bills when her husband couldn’t afford to), there is no Mitzi Caspar (although there may well have been a dozen non famous Mitzis that he, umm, got to “know” in later years).

 

The Vetsera family and Royal family hid diaries and other evidence (understandably) so there’s a lot of question marks despite the many books that came out about it. Also, since the “Mum” in question (Elisabeth) wasn’t a staid stuffy old queen but a queen who at the time was like a mixture of Princess Diana and Gwyneth Paltrow rolled into one and a huge celebrity in Austria/Austro-Hungary despite being 51, people were fascinated by the whole thing because of the individuals involved. 9 feature films were made about it,  including one with Audrey Hepburn, and another one in 1968 with Catherine Deneuve and Omar Sharif as Mary Vetsera and Rudolf, with Ava Gardner as Empress Elisabeth, and there were still fans of the film in 1977-1978 when MacMillan was making the ballet (the film also included fictional bits inspired by novels that were written about the incident).

 

I think it’s easier to make many aspects and characters fictionalised/altered than to try to make it historically accurate  - in situations like these no film or ballet is ever going to be able to have all the facts. The only thing that is  certain is that there was definitely a shooting and two dead people. 

[bangorballetboy]

39 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

there is no Mitzi Caspar

 

There most certainly was a Mitzi Kaspar.  CP Rudolf gave her lots and lots of money and many historians think she was the real love of his life and that he asked her first about a suicide pact (as is shown in the ballet).

She died of syphilis. 

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

There most certainly was a Mitzi Kaspar.  CP Rudolf gave her lots and lots of money and many historians think she was the real love of his life and that he asked her first about a suicide pact (as is shown in the ballet).

She died of syphilis. 

Oh, there was a Mizzi Kaspar, not Mitzi Caspar, who was an actress but little else is mentioned.  She is listed as Rudolf’s main mistress, and as you say, Rudolf did give her lots of money and jewels (bank and jeweller receipts documenting where the large sums and expensive gems/jewellery went to would back it up). That wouldn’t make sense for her to be a prostitute running a brothel. Also, on the very rare occasions that prostitutes catch the eye of a wealthy lover/patron who showers them with money and jewels, they stop “working”. Why keep going back to the firing line for money when someone is giving you more than you need to retire safely? Being a prostitute or brothel keeper is a dangerous way to make ends meet. The patron also often the one insisting she stops. It’s unlikely that she had the same “job” as the ballet character. 

 

Syphilis was actually common in those days throughout all of society, not just among prostitutes, as was  gonorrhea (which Rudolf was thought to have had and passed on to Stephanie), for which there was no effective treatment until antibiotics were developed in the 1930s onwards- too late for them all. Syphilis is also commonly spread at the same time as gonorrhoea and isn’t always fatal- but hallucinations (caused by brain damage), angry violent outbursts, depressive episodes  and other mental illness symptoms are among its late complications, which Rudolf did have (both in the ballet and in real life).

 

She seems to be more akin to the Larisch character than the Mitzi character in the ballet, despite the obvious similarity in name. What I alluded to was that there was no evidence of Rudolf having a brothel owner/prostitute as a lover as well. It would have been more historically accurate to make Mizzi the Larisch character which she was in real life rather than a fictional brothel keeper, but having two society women mistresses, a gradually resentful wife,  and no conflicted exes, is not so dramatically interesting. Might have been easier for new audiences to the ballet to work out who’s who though!

Edited October 19, 2022 by Emeralds

[bangorballetboy]

Sometimes known as Mizzi and sometimes Mitzi.  Not a big point, the main issue is that she existed.

 

Many historians refer to her as being a prostitute so not sure why you think she should not be described as such.  Also, there's nothing in the synopsis of the ballet (or in the performance as I see it) to suggest that Mitzi Caspar is the madam (it's not Manon) rather than just a prostitute who is somewhat "higher" than the others in the tavern.

[maryrosesatonapin]

3 hours ago, Emeralds said:

(Elisabeth) wasn’t a staid stuffy old queen but a queen who at the time was like a mixture of Princess Diana and Gwyneth Paltrow rolled into one and a huge celebrity in Austria/Austro-Hungary

I have been fascinated by Elizabeth since seeing Winterhalter's portrait of her when I was a child.  Although Winterhalter flattered his subjects she really was beautiful as photographs show, and took extreme care to remain so.  I thought Annette Buvoli as Elizabeth looked suitably special.

[MJW]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/royaloperahouse/albums/72177720303006246

 

The ROH's Mayerling gallery has been updated with images from performances with Matthew Ball and Vadim Muntagirov

[Candleque]

For folks on Netflix, they are currently running The Empress (German: Die Kaiserin) — a 2022 historical drama series on the life of Empress Elisabeth of Austria. (Haven't seen enough to know how historically accurate it is.)

[Geoff]

52 minutes ago, Candleque said:

The Empress (German: Die Kaiserin) — a 2022 historical drama series on the life of Empress Elisabeth of Austria. (Haven't seen enough to know how historically accurate it is.)

Not very accurate at all.

[Suffolkgal]

Thanks for the Flickr link - was slightly reminded of the great Irek in the Matthew Ball images. And - great hat mr Bracewell!

 

I think whatever liberties Macmillan took with the story the overall picture of misery and grief in that family was accurate. The Empress Sophie essentially kept the children from Sissi so she just went off on her own path. She was a child when she married, really. 

[capybara]

2 hours ago, MJW said:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/royaloperahouse/albums/72177720303006246

 

The ROH's Mayerling gallery has been updated with images from performances with Matthew Ball and Vadim Muntagirov

 

I love Matthew Ball in the role but I find the photos of Vadim Muntagirov deeply moving.

[Tebasile]

1 hour ago, Candleque said:

For folks on Netflix, they are currently running The Empress (German: Die Kaiserin) — a 2022 historical drama series on the life of Empress Elisabeth of Austria. (Haven't seen enough to know how historically accurate it is.)

It’s terrible

[bangorballetboy]

I think it’s worth a reminder that MacMillan used a dramaturg, Gillian Freeman, to create the scenario for his ballet. 

[Sebastian]

19 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

Sometimes known as Mizzi and sometimes Mitzi. 

 

Might I add a little about Maria/Mizzi/Mitzi Kaspar/Kasper/Casper/Caspar, perhaps of interest?

 

But first a comment on spelling in the pre-computer era. As recently as the Nuremberg trials (ie the late 1940s) well-educated legal and military professionals from Britain and the US were entirely relaxed about how to spell names. For example some well-known defendants in those trials are spelled in a variety of ways – sometimes with significant variation, though not so if read phonetically – throughout the official papers.

 

This is just one illustration among many. Only the arrival of computers – at which point Mizzi might be importantly different to Mitzi – forced the world to care about exact spelling. The people of Rudolf’s era certainly did not spell as a machine does.

 

Here are some less-remembered points about Mitzi Casper (to use her ballet spelling):

 

-          who alerted the secret police to Rudolf’s talk of suicide (at which point she was threatened into silence)

-          with whom Rudolf spent his last night before leaving for Mayerling

-          who despite being his regular mistress for several years was only 24 years old when he died

-          after which she gave no interviews to anyone.

 

She died some 18 years later, leaving (so far as we know) no letters or diaries, never mind memoirs, suggesting that the threats/inducements she received had worked.

 

Incidentally, in addition to the King/Wilson book already mentioned, there is a nice short summary of her life (sadly only in German) in Philipp Vandenberg’s Die Frühstücksfrau des Kaisers.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Sebastian

[zxDaveM]

Casper - the friendly ghost?

[Sophoife]

On 16/10/2022 at 23:06, maryrosesatonapin said:

She [Sarah Lamb] danced very prettily to Steven Mcrae’s excellent partnering. 

 

Possibly the most damning, albeit I'm sure inadvertently so, review of someone dancing Mary Vetsera I've ever read.

[maryrosesatonapin]

4 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

 

Possibly the most damning, albeit I'm sure inadvertently so, review of someone dancing Mary Vetsera I've ever read.

I was aware of that as I wrote it, but it was not a criticism; I feel the interpretation of Mary as being actually very very young, a victim and feeling genuinely in love with Rudolph, is a valid one.

[Sophoife]

Just now, maryrosesatonapin said:

I was aware of that as I wrote it, but it was not a criticism; I feel the interpretation of Mary as being actually very very young, a victim and feeling genuinely in love with Rudolph, is a valid one.

 

Oh it was clear from what you wrote that you weren't criticising her, rather praising. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you were criticising.

 

It's just that I feel that someone dancing "prettily" isn't exactly what is looked for in a Mary Vetsera, and certainly from my POV dancing anything "prettily" or "sweetly pretty" belongs more to Amour/Cupid in Don Quixote or to the girlfriends in just about any story ballet (being fresh off AusBallet's Cranko Romeo and Juliet as I am).

 

Mary can be naive, passionate, enthralled by her own burgeoning sexuality, floundering in deeper waters than she'd bargained for, flattered, following a path laid out by a cynical older woman, under the influence of drugs/stronger personalities, but dancing "prettily" isn't how I'd put it after seeing (on film, either in full or part) Seymour, Collier, Durante, Benjamin, Galeazzi, Hamilton and Lamb (in the 2019 cinema cast) and (in person) Morera, Cuthbertson and Osipova.

 

Pretty to me means Lise, Aurora, Titania, Mirlitons, as I said earlier Generic Girlfriends, peasant PDD in Giselle, Ratmansky's Harlequinade (so sweet it was tooth-jarring)...