Mayerling, Royal Ballet Autumn 2022

[Mary]

Agreed. I think it depends to some extent on the person:  you have to think about what might appeal.   But over the  past 30 years I have taken many people to ballet for the first time and possibly only one was underwhelmed, the others were all amazed at how good it was- they had all sorts of ideas about it, from the misrepresentation ballet gets in general in the media (don't start me) ....they thought it was mimsy, silly, elitist, boring, posh, fancy, only for  weedy girlies,  etc etc etc etc .

 

All rubbish as we know!

 

[Fiz]

I remember my youngest daughter’s ballet teacher exclaiming in absolute horror when I said that “we had tickets to Mayerling”. It was only my husband and myself who were going. I knew it would horrify our then very sensitive twelve year old.  She loves it now. 

[Blossom]

What did somewhat horrify me about Mayerling was seeing a child of no more than 8 or 9  years old there last night. I would debate about taking my 15 year old - I think Manon might just about pass for age appropriate but with prostitution, drugs, rape, violence and a double suicide, I don't think this is in any ways a children's ballet!!! 

[Candleque]

41 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

I've invited non-ballet fan friends to more modern works this year such as Light of Passage, which was received very well by them. I was thinking of inviting one to Mayerling, but was wondering if it's the right one to bring ballet newbies to? Given its complexity.

I took two culture loving but non balletomane friends to Mayerling (Ball / Morera / Magri). We try to meet for a night of theatre whenever we can. After it was over, they politely suggested that one of them should pick the next show 😂
 

[LinMM]

Edited November 24, 2022 by LinMM

[Jan McNulty]

2 minutes ago, LinMM said:

 

What gorgeous Deeley boppers!  I need some of these!

[LinMM]

 

3 minutes ago, LinMM said:

 

[LinMM]

Sorry didn’t mean to post this twice was just trying to label it 🙄

was going to say This one could be ideal for Nutcracker 

Not sure about Mayerling though what could you wear for that 🤔

More like a black armband I think! 

[ellyb]

3 hours ago, Sophoife said:

 

I found the photos Mum took. Performance number 4 ever and the first by the cast of Gartside, Núñez, Stix-Brunell, Muntagirov and Hristov. Have uploaded to Flickr at https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAgyz4

Wonderful pictures, and not too bad a view really - and a very good view of the audience, must be very obvious when people (like me) are gawping up at you! 

[LinMM]

To be more serious I think if someone is up for watching any kind of dark or really dramatic theatre they will be fine to watch the ballet Mayerling even if never been to ballet before. 
Of course this ballet is not suited to under 14’s to be honest but probably with very much younger children most of it goes over their head ….though having said that the obvious use of a gun and gun shot sound might not be good for a sensitive younger child as they might not be able to distinguish fact from fiction especially if under 10. 
Mayerling is probably a no no mostly for kids. But what could be more lovely than Nutcracker for them!! 
 

I will be interested to hear how Sambe  and Hayward perform tonight in their debuts as seeing them next Wednesday. Finally getting to see Mayerling is a whole saga in itself for me! 
 

Blossom how do you rate the deeley bopper idea to identify Forum members lol! 
Im blaming Rob S for all the above!!! 
 

[Sophoife]

Thank you @ellyb! Mum and Dad took them, mostly Dad I think as nobody's head was cut off (Mum's special talent). She said they could see very little of what went on on their side of the stage.

 

Mum also said Dad's favourites were the very pretty girl who was the lost daughter, and the lady who looked after the Queen (aka Beatriz Stix-Brunell and Laura Morera) and that, unusually for him at anything not Coppélia or Fille, he didn't fall asleep 😂

Edited November 24, 2022 by Sophoife
Added.

[ellyb]

I got chatting to a girl who was there on the 'Young ROH' scheme (she'd paid £25 for her ticket, I'd paid £131 for mine which made me feel a bit sick 😂) and this was her first ballet... by the second interval she said she was unfortunately completely lost, though was enjoying it. I did say I wasn't sure it was necessarily the best first ballet, there's just so much going on and the ROH synopsis isn't very detailed - they never mention the Hungarian officers or what the point of them is for example, she thought they were just his mates mucking around! I said I did hope she'd try again and she promised me she would, I advised R&J or a classical. 

[LinMM]

I can’t access the photos Sophoife as all these questions from Flickr come up before can access! 

[ellyb]

47 minutes ago, Blossom said:

What did somewhat horrify me about Mayerling was seeing a child of no more than 8 or 9  years old there last night. I would debate about taking my 15 year old - I think Manon might just about pass for age appropriate but with prostitution, drugs, rape, violence and a double suicide, I don't think this is in any ways a children's ballet!!! 

Think there were some young kids there on the Muntagirov night I went, though they seemed to disappear before the end - maybe their parents only realised as they were watching that this was no Nutcracker! I would've been I think 13 or 14 when I saw it for the first time - on the BBC with Mukhamedov and Durante - and I fell in love with it. It didn't occur to my parents to check whether a ballet would be age appropriate! It was very many years before I actually saw it live, and I'm still very much in love with it and find something new on every visit. I think I find it darker now than I did as I maybe didn't really understand much, and not just in the ballet itself but of the reality it represents. I personally find Manon a lot bleaker, and again the older I get and the more I understand that these events (violence, prostitution, rape, transportation etc) actually happened to real women the more I find it affects me. I've felt a genuine horror at the Act III gaoler scene which I've not felt from Mayerling. I would say neither are at all suitable for children! 

[Fiz]

I first realised what a great character actor Gary Avis is when I saw him as the jailer in Manon. He’s a dear Facebook friend but oh boy, was I appalled at him in this role! He was so good that I positively disliked him and then felt bad about it.

[LinMM]

I have said this before in connection to Manon but the first time I saw it David Drew danced the part of the gaoler and I couldn’t see any ballet with Drew in it for quite a while afterwards it affected me so much. 
Poor David Drew I’m sure he’s a very nice person just obviously very effective in the role …..and I have forgiven him now!! 

[LinMM]

OMG Fiz we were posting at the same time! How strange that’s such a similar response! 

[Blossom]

33 minutes ago, ellyb said:

I've felt a genuine horror at the Act III gaoler scene which I've not felt from Mayerling. 

I think i had conveniently forgotten about this.

Well at this rate, my 15 year old will be at least nearing 17 by the time this is on next (and my other daughter has zero interest).

[Tango Dancer]

31 minutes ago, Fiz said:

I first realised what a great character actor Gary Avis is when I saw him as the jailer in Manon. He’s a dear Facebook friend but oh boy, was I appalled at him in this role! He was so good that I positively disliked him and then felt bad about it.

 

The RB has the best character actors in my view.  Gary Avis is amazing in everything he does in my view and really inhabits the characters with total commitment.  I also love watching Bennet Gartside in particular playing villains.  I take classes with Benn and he's really lovely, but he can play some horrible characters really convincingly and makes Rothbart positively evil and repellent.    

[Sophoife]

59 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I can’t access the photos Sophoife as all these questions from Flickr come up before can access! 

What sort of questions, @LinMM? When I click on the link on my phone (not logged in to Flickr) I just get taken straight to the album. Are you logged in to Flickr?

[ellyb]

45 minutes ago, Tango Dancer said:

 

The RB has the best character actors in my view.  Gary Avis is amazing in everything he does in my view and really inhabits the characters with total commitment.  I also love watching Bennet Gartside in particular playing villains.  I take classes with Benn and he's really lovely, but he can play some horrible characters really convincingly and makes Rothbart positively evil and repellent.    

Bennet Gartside is who I had in mind when I wrote "genuine horror"; he seems a lovely man in reality of course, but that scene stuck in my mind - I was still having occasional flashbacks and shuddering for at least a couple of weeks after! That was with Melissa Hamilton, to be fair I have seen Manon many times and it hasn't always had quite such a profound effect as that particular evening. 

[Josette]

16 hours ago, ellyb said:

Ah, answered my own question:

 

"If you look at the second box from the stage on the second level, you have spotted the Royal Box. Apparently Prince Charles attends the ROH quite often, and I can see why; the Royal Box has a sitting room, a dining room, a kitchen (with a butler), and a private staircase." Royal Opera House Tour | An Historian About Town

 

Maybe they were rushing off to have their dinner!

Last June, I was a bit late to the ROH for the opera, and I was escorted into the Royal Box, joining a few others, for the first half of the performance and then moved to my Orchestra Stalls seat at the interval.  I did not have the nerve to explore the Royal Box before departing, but, yes, the view is limited and you cannot see upstage left. There seemed to be a private staircase.  It made a great story for when I returned to the U.S.

[Dawnstar]

I don't feel I can really fairly judge yesterday's performance overall because my view of it was inevitably clouded by my deep regret that I was not, and will not get to, seeing Morera as Mary Vetsera. I thought Naghdi did a very good job, especially considering the short notice, but I think I preferred her with Muntagirov. I find her a strong dancer & thought her strength contrasted well with Muntagirov's Rudolf's weakness whereas Ball's Rudolf wasn't weak so there was less contrast. If I had to sum up the 2 Rudolf's on one word I would say Muntagirov's Rudolf is broken & Ball's Rudolf is twisted. (I don't know if this makes any sense!)

 

I loved Magri as Countess Larish, though I may be biased as she's one of my favourite RB dancers. Unsurprisingly she had great chemistry with Ball, to the point where I found myself rather wishing that Rudolf could end up with Countess Larisch instead! I do hope she gets to do Mary Vertsera some day.

 

It's funny, Braendsrod is undoubtedly extremely good looking but comparing his Bay Middleton to having seen Avis's on Monday, even though Avis must be nearly twice as old & isn't as clasically good looking, I thought his Bay Middleton was, frankly, sexier. He conveys such warmth that you can understand why the Empress, chilled by the Habsburg court, would have turned to him. Of course Avis is extremely experienced in the role & Braendsrod has only just taken it on so maybe he'll relax into it in time.

 

In terms of Mayerling as a first ballet, I'd say another thing to consider is if the person is someone who just wants to turn up & see "a show" or if they're someone who will put in a bit of time reading up about something before seeing it. Mayerling, in the 2018 run, was the first time I'd seen the RB live - albeit not my first ballet as I'd seen some childhood Nutcrackers & 2 or 3 ENB tour performances when at uni - and I didn't have any problem following the main plot at least because beforehand I'd looked it up & read up a bit about the historical characters. As someone who has been operagoing, at the ROH & elsewhere, for nearly 20 years I'm used to looking up plots beforehand. In fact I very rarely book for any genre of performance without checking the plot first, as I don't like (possibly nasty) surprises.

To add to the Manon Gaoler comments, I think I saw most if not all of the current RB ones in the last Manon run & the one I found most repellant was Whitehead. Then a couple of months later I saw him do a really quite sweet, sympathetic Dr Coppelius, my favourite out of the the ones I saw. It just shows how versatile they all are!

[Mary]

4 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

even though Avis must be nearly twice as old & isn't as clasically good looking, I thought his Bay Middleton was, frankly, sexier.

absolutely, they don't get much sexier than Gary Avis!

It is all about character and nuance though isn't it.

I agree with you Dawnstar about Magri too- I found her really riveting last night:  she will be a great character dancer  for many years I feel sure.

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, Tango Dancer said:

 

The RB has the best character actors in my view.  Gary Avis is amazing in everything he does in my view and really inhabits the characters with total commitment.  I also love watching Bennet Gartside in particular playing villains.  I take classes with Benn and he's really lovely, but he can play some horrible characters really convincingly and makes Rothbart positively evil and repellent.    

 

And BRB has the nonpareil Michael O'Hare as well as others.

[JohnS]

Tonight’s cast list:

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/40/mayerling-by-kenneth-macmillan/cast-list/51305

[serenade]

1 hour ago, Sophoife said:

What sort of questions, @LinMM? When I click on the link on my phone (not logged in to Flickr) I just get taken straight to the album. Are you logged in to Flickr?

Thanks for the photos, v interesting    When I clicked on the link I got quite a few questions about what things to allow but I think it was all in relation to cookies- it was just more than normal.  If that was the same for you @LinMM just scroll to the bottom and there's a reject all button which I clicked on....or there's an accept all, and it saves you setting each preference.

[ellyb]

24 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Tonight’s cast list:

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/40/mayerling-by-kenneth-macmillan/cast-list/51305

Very excited for feedback, going next week... Instagram pics look good and both Sambe and Hayward can certainly act! Very best of luck to them both, and of course to the whole cast. 

[serenade]

4 minutes ago, ellyb said:

Very excited for feedback, going next week... Instagram pics look good and both Sambe and Hayward can certainly act! Very best of luck to them both, and of course to the whole cast. 

Yes it will be really interesting to read some reports- wish I could have also seen this cast but I chose the Ball cast last night.  Unfortunately had extremely tall people in front so my view was very obstructed.  What I did manage to see was good 😂

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, Mary said:

absolutely, they don't get much sexier than Gary Avis!

It is all about character and nuance though isn't it.

I agree with you Dawnstar about Magri too- I found her really riveting last night:  she will be a great character dancer  for many years I feel sure.

 

It came into my mind on Monday that his Bay Middleton is like the real version of the exaggerated gigolo character he played in the tango from Facade that he did with Darcey Bussell at the Fonteyn Gala. If the Empress had a dream sequence about herself & Bay Middleton then the tango from Facade could be it! (Another comment that I have no idea if it'll makes sense to anyone else or not.)

 

Another random thought, that came into my mind during last night's tavern scene: thank goodness the RB didn't try to do Mayerling this time last year because that scene must be covid's dream scenario! I also have no idea how all the men's fake moustaches stay on with all the, er, action happening.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Dawnstar
Typo, which for once I spotted in time

[Tango Dancer]

5 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Another random thought, that came into my mind during last night's tavern scene: thank goodness the RB didn't try to do Mayerling this time last year because that scene must be covid's dream scenario! I also have no idea how all the men's fake moustaches stay on with all the, er, action happening.

 

I gather the glue used for the moustaches and fake hair is particularly strong!  

[Fonty]

With regard to Mayerling's suitability for children, I think it depends on the child, doesn't it?  Most children I have known love a bit of violence, and if they love ballet they will enjoy the dance and probably ignore or fail to understand some of the very adult themes.

 

On that topic, I remember some years ago chatting with a couple of adults in the shop at the ROH.  They had several children with them, and they had just been to see a special school's performance. The children had been really eager to see Swan Lake, which had just finished a long run.  However, the ROH in its wisdom had decided that the most suitable programme for youngsters under the age of 11 was a triple bill which included The Judas Tree.  Just your everyday rape, murder and suicide, then.  Apparently the children thought the whole triple bill was ok "but not as good as Swan Lake."

[Tango Dancer]

9 minutes ago, Fonty said:

With regard to Mayerling's suitability for children, I think it depends on the child, doesn't it?  Most children I have known love a bit of violence, and if they love ballet they will enjoy the dance and probably ignore or fail to understand some of the very adult themes.

 

On that topic, I remember some years ago chatting with a couple of adults in the shop at the ROH.  They had several children with them, and they had just been to see a special school's performance. The children had been really eager to see Swan Lake, which had just finished a long run.  However, the ROH in its wisdom had decided that the most suitable programme for youngsters under the age of 11 was a triple bill which included The Judas Tree.  Just your everyday rape, murder and suicide, then.  Apparently the children thought the whole triple bill was ok "but not as good as Swan Lake."

 

I'd probably agree with them, I'd pick Swan Lake any day over the Judas Tree. 

 

People sometimes take children to the wrong things.  When I was a teenager I visited my grandparents who lived in the Midlands.  They took me to Stratford on Avon.  I wanted to see Twelfth Night but Granny noted the poster had 3 people in an embrace on it, so she took me to see the other play that was on as that had a better poster with a nice picture on.  It was actually John Webster's "The White Devil" which has a lot of murder, violence and brutality in it.  I thought it was brilliant, but it was definitely not what she was expecting.