How much ballet is required to train as a professional contemporary dancer?

[AgnesP]

I hope it's ok to ask for advice on this here - it has a ballet element!

 

My daughter is 12 and has recently decided she wants to try to become a professional contemporary dancer, via training at 18 somewhere like London Contemporary Dance School. She knows it’s very competitive. I would like to support her to give it her best shot.

 

I am finding it difficult (and stressful) to work out what we should be doing at this stage. She is at a local dance school and has been doing ballet there from age 9, adding tap, modern and jazz from 10. She increased from 1 to 2 x hours each of ballet and modern per week about 6 months ago and has just started a fortnightly ballet associates class which has a bit of contemporary.

 

My main concern is about what level of classical ballet she will need. She would ideally like to look for a more contemporary-based / creative weekend associate programme from next year, so she would be left with the 2 x weekly lessons at her dance school. She is quite 'behind' what serious dancers on this forum are doing in terms of the amount of ballet classes and the grade she is at, though fairly normal for her school. 

 

We could switch from her current dance school to get more ballet during the week. The school she is at offers one ballet class per week and she dances in the grade above to get the 2 classes. Even for vocational grades they do 1 x 2 hour class per week and don't offer IF, though they’re a bit flexible based on need. I don’t think the school sends any children on to vocational training, but they do have classes through to advanced. The children who take intermediate tend to do so at around year 12 and I think probably also do associates. It’s so hard to know how good the teaching is. I asked my daughter after her first associate class what it was like in comparison – she said very similar to her normal class but that in the associate classes they were a bit pickier / more precise.

 

We are within striking distance of a couple of schools I have seen recommended on here where she could do several ballet classes a week, though it would complicate our already busy lives and they don’t offer the modern, tap etc. which she loves, plus my daughter is very happy at her school. My instinct is that for many reasons it would be wrong to move her, but I am also worried about getting later down the line and finding we have made the wrong decisions.

 

I will probably let her apply for the CAT schemes in London for next year, despite the crippling cost, but it would be good to have a back-up plan as I assume these are very competitive. There is a weekly contemporary associate-type scheme local to us which I think could be great for next year if not (though again it's so hard to be sure as it's relatively small and new). 

 

Apologies for the length of this post and thanks so much if you have read this far. Any advice would be very gratefully received.

[Dancing unicorn]

Hiya AgnesP and welcome to the forum. I’ll private message you about one of my students. 😁

[alison]

Welcome to the forum, AgnesP - and don't worry about it not being ballet-related as such: we do also cover dance beyond ballet, even if the legacy forum name doesn't necessarily suggest it  

 

If you have a look here (and ignore all the outrage stirred up by what appears to have been a misrepresentation of the situation), you'll see that some contemporary schools don't actually require ballet as a condition of entry, although I think they all require their students to do ballet class.  I hope that helps.

 

 

[richieN]

My DD very much wants a career in ballet. When she was going through the auditions for upper schools, Rambert had a preliminary audition that included ballet and contemporary videos. I was quite surprised at how simple the ballet elements (simple barre exercises) of the audition were in comparison to the contemporary. In the end, she decided not to go through with it - because she wanted to prioritise other auditions.

 

But I suspect that from a ballet perspective, Rambert will work with what they have. If they like you, they like you. 

[MrsMoo2]

I went down the contemporary route and started with a GCSE in dance at my school, then an A Level in Dance and Performing Arts. Followed by a dance degree. Out of school, I kept up my ballet and stretch classes but dropped tap and Greek. There are lots of routes in for dancers not just traditional vocational routes. If anything contemporary is more accessible than ballet. Some fab companies around too! 😁😁😁

[AgnesP]

Thanks so much for all your responses and to the people who messaged me. 

 

The thread linked to above by alison is very interesting - thank you - I hadn't properly appreciated that ballet wasn't required as an entry condition. I do still slightly wonder whether you might be at a disadvantage if you weren't at a high level of ballet when applying, because of the strength and technique, but I do feel a bit reassured! 

 

richieN that is also very interesting as I had assumed Rambert would have very high ballet requirements. 

 

Thank you MrsMoo2 for explaining your route into contemporary which sounds great and again I'm reassured that you think contemporary is more accessible. If you are still reading, do you mind me asking if you had done much other dance before your GCSE?

 

I'm not sure whether I should ask here or on a separate thread, but if anyone knows any good contemporary associates programme it would be amazing to get some recommendations. I have read some other helpful threads on here about this but they were mainly in the Midlands and we are in Sussex, near Brighton. There is a limit to my willingness to ferry her enormous distances at the weekend. I have a weekend class in mind for next year but I have no idea if it's any good and I'm not sure how to find out as I don't know anyone who goes there. 

 

Thanks again

[Bolshoi]

10 hours ago, richieN said:

My DD very much wants a career in ballet. When she was going through the auditions for upper schools, Rambert had a preliminary audition that included ballet and contemporary videos. I was quite surprised at how simple the ballet elements (simple barre exercises) of the audition were in comparison to the contemporary. In the end, she decided not to go through with it - because she wanted to prioritise other auditions.

 

But I suspect that from a ballet perspective, Rambert will work with what they have. If they like you, they like you. 

The ballet at Rambert is very strong and not typical of a Contemporary school, just because the audition video was simple does not mean it is not considered. The timetable is 50/50 ballet and contemporary, unique in this country. All prelim auditions tend not to be too difficult, it isn’t an indication of the standard schools are looking for.

[richieN]

1 hour ago, Bolshoi said:

The ballet at Rambert is very strong and not typical of a Contemporary school, just because the audition video was simple does not mean it is not considered. The timetable is 50/50 ballet and contemporary, unique in this country. All prelim auditions tend not to be too difficult, it isn’t an indication of the standard schools are looking for.

 

I'm sure it is, but their ballet requirements for preliminary auditions are little more than elementary. 

[Bolshoi]

16 hours ago, richieN said:

 

I'm sure it is, but their ballet requirements for preliminary auditions are little more than elementary. 

As per most other prelim auditions.

[richieN]

On 18/09/2022 at 15:52, Bolshoi said:

As per most other prelim auditions.

 

All of the other preliminary auditions DD did for upper schools were more ballet intensive than the Rambert audition - even the Elmhurst preliminary video. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by richieN

[Bolshoi]

On 19/09/2022 at 18:32, richieN said:

 

All of the other preliminary auditions DD did for upper schools were more ballet intensive than the Rambert audition - even the Elmhurst preliminary video. 

🙄

[Kanangra]

On 19/09/2022 at 00:52, Bolshoi said:

 

(editing because I quoted the wrong post! This is in response to RichieN's post. )

 

At the prelim stage they are just looking at body, facility etc. From my observations Rambert is just as particular regarding these aspects as most ballet schools. They have held audition classes here which were very high level ballet including pointe work. 

 

Strong ballet technique is always an advantage for any dance genre.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Kanangra

[lilacfairy]

If you don't have strong ballet technique you don't get in to Rambert

[Pas de Quatre]

lilacfairy is right, Rambert School of Ballet and Contemporary Dance require a very high standard in both genres. The other main Contemporary schools, LSCD, NSCD & Laban don't.

[Dance*is*life]

I imagine that Rambert gives equal emphasis to both techniques, because the company started out as a classical ballet company, so its roots are classical.   

 

There are of course conflicting points of view as to whether you need strong ballet technique in order to become a contemporary dancer and I have had many an argument ovver that!  I personally feel that just like pianists and other musicians benefit from and develop their technique by playing classical music, so too do dancers,  All our students dance ballet, but the majority will never become classical dancers.  A far higher percentage have gone on to become contemporary dancers, with the strong jumps, nice lines, good pirouettes and nimble feet that ballet training promotes.  In fact our jazz and contemporary dance teachers refuse to work with students who have not had ballet training.  

 

I do feel that your daughter should probably have an hour or two more of ballet per week, but practising at home will also help.  Anyway, good luck in whatever she ends up doing.

[AgnesP]

Thanks so much for all your responses. Rambert is not really somewhere we'd be looking.

I'm worried because although I think the technique seems fine her dance school does seem to plod along quite slowly so even though she is now doing 2 hours per week plus 2.5 hours fortnightly of associates, her progression through the grades is quite glacial!

Where people have said that LCDS, Laban etc. don't require a high standard, do you think it would still be best to have done, say, at least ISTD intermediate before applying at 17 so as not to be at a disadvantage? I appreciate grades aren't everything but just as a broad indication of level. It would require a lot of sacrifice and financial outlay even to try and get my daughter up to that level, though all being well she will also have done a reasonable amount of contemporary and some non-syllabus ballet classes. 

I wonder whether I should ask her current ballet school for a private lesson to focus on getting through some more of the syllabus work, as an alternative to a different school. I have two other children and a very demanding job so not sure I can make it work otherwise! I don't know how other parents do it. 

Thank you Dance*is*life your comments are very interesting and make sense. I'd also not thought much about practising at home; she does do this but I could see whether I can find online lessons to guide her.

 

[Pas de Quatre]

For Laban and LCDS a high standard of classical technique is not required. They are interested in potential and creativity. Ballet exams are not necessary - many successful candidates come from overseas where exams are not generally taken in the same way as here. I have had two pupils at Laban and one offered LCDS but went to NSCD. My pupils happened to have strong ballet technique but some of the friends they made on the BA courses didn't.

[Kanangra]

My daughter is at NSCD and - while she has got strong ballet training behind her - she says many of her fellow students don't. The school is more interested in the ability of the students to move and to express themselves through movement. They have removed ballet from the audition process (as mentioned above I think) but I believe ballet class is still part of their daily routine. Your daughter still has a few years ahead of her, so it's probably most important she is enjoying her dancing as well as getting quality training. In terms of knowing how good the teaching is, have many graduates of the dance school she is currently attending gone on to any vocational training? If very few have that is often a sign of a more "recreational" school. The fact that her current teachers are less picky might be a sign the focus is more on enjoyment than technique. The associates classes sound like a good idea.

[Laura_ballet]

I believe that although ballet may not be part of the audition process, the fundamentals of ballet are still relevant. Private lessons working on pre vocational level/vocational would be extremely helpful. That’s my opinion. Yes it will be pricey but what you can get from private lesson is obviously a lot more than a group class plus it can be catered towards your child’s level. Hope this helps. 

[glowlight]

The suggestion I always give to this sort of question is - talk to your dd's teacher about her aspirations to be a professional dancer, and your concerns over whether she is doing enough of the right sort of training.  Most teachers will do what they can to help students to achieve their goals.  Your teacher might be willing to let your dd go to an additional ballet class each week at another local studio.  She might suggest other opportunities or openings.  

 

It is also important to be guided by your dd.  What does she want to do?  What does she feel that she needs?  

[AgnesP]

Thank you for all your helpful views and a very interesting range of opinions. It's great to hear from people who have pupils or children at these schools who are sharing their experiences - thank you. 

I am curious as to the pupils who don't have strong ballet technique and are studying contemporary dance, and whether this means that they have done little to no ballet or whether they have e.g. still done a class or 2 a week but not done the higher vocational grades. 

Kanangra - yes I would definitely say it is a recreational school, none or very few of the pupils go on to vocational school and certainly not to ballet schools. She does love it there though and it is through the school that her love of dance has been fostered. I can't quite explain why but I feel very reluctant to move her. Also, she does not want to move. So yes, sticking with the associates plan seems sensible for now. 

Balletmediauk - I am thinking more that this might be a good plan and preferable to switching schools. I could only afford 30 mins at the moment but may be able to increase in the future.

glowlight - yes, I have spoken to the principal, she said she is confident she can get my daughter to where she needs to be (though was a bit hazy on the details). She is lovely and worked for many years as a professional contemporary dancer herself; she also said that many of her contemporary colleagues had done much less classical ballet training than she had. She is sort of supportive but generally seems very busy and slightly distracted!

As to what my daughter wants, she is committed and will do what is needed (she is too young really to know), but she really loves and thrives on the contemporary and more creative classes. She would rather be dancing than not dancing, but she doesn't have quite the same passion for classical ballet. This is a key part of my conundrum because presumably most children who want to be dancers don't make it, so while I don't want to be negative I also don't want to bankrupt us and use up scarce family time to put her into yet more ballet lessons when that's not really her main love. 

 

[Pas de Quatre]

In that case I really don't think it will serve any useful purpose making her take more ballet. It sounds as if she is doing fine.

[glowlight]

On 03/10/2022 at 20:46, AgnesP said:

Also, she does not want to move.

 

To me this is key...if she doesn't want to move and if you were to push her in that direction you risk that she may just give up completely 

On 03/10/2022 at 20:46, AgnesP said:

She is lovely and worked for many years as a professional contemporary dancer herself

 

To my mind this is gold dust -  your dd's teacher has worked professionally in the sphere of dance that your dd wants to be in, so she has direct experience.  Take advantage of that.  If you move her to another school which is more ballet focused she may find herself pushed in a direction she isn't happy with.

On 03/10/2022 at 20:46, AgnesP said:

but she doesn't have quite the same passion for classical ballet

 

That sounds fine to me.  Classical ballet isn't her dream.  Yes she probably has to do some classical ballet to become the best contemporary dancer that she can, but it's fine that her passion lies with contemporary.  Give her every opportunity you can to channel that.

 

 

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

I've watched a few episodes of the BBC young dancer competitions, and all I can say is that when watching the contemporary sections, it is very obvious which of the entrants have had ballet training, and which haven't. They use their bodies quite differently.

[Dancing unicorn]

I really don’t know whether to mention this here but here goes!

Went to watch National Dance Company Wales company class a while ago. Now they are NOT a ballet company, BUT their warm up class was ballet based and you could tell all of them had had ballet training!
Also, my dd did an Inspiro course - twice! And she stuck out like a sore thumb for her classical technique! Yes all the others could do all the tricks, and tilts etc but!!!!!!!!

So my advice would be whether your thinking ballet, contemporary, cruise ship or whatever I still say ballet is the foundation for everything! Call me old fashioned but he ho!!!!! 💗

[AgnesP]

Thank you to Pas de Quatre and glowlight for your posts. I have gone round in circles but your posts have really helped in thinking through the pros and cons. I think her dance school is a really positive place and there are so many factors that feed into this - it could upset the balance if we changed and mess up something that has brought lots of joy, both with her dancing and more generally. Plus I hadn't really thought about the benefits of the contemporary experience of the teacher. Coincidentally, I have very recently enrolled my youngest in one of the local larger and vocational-focused schools (just because of lesson timings) and I can already see that the feel of it is not a great match for us. I don't see my elder daughter thriving there. I've also read a few threads on here about what dance schools can be like and I feel quite lucky in many ways!

 

Thank you also taxi4ballet and dancing unicorn, I'm assuming that you both mean that you found the contemporary dancers who had done ballet to have better technique (as opposed to just different), which is v interesting. I suppose this takes me kind of back to the question of how much ballet?! I'm not sure whether it's the difference between having done a few years of ballet versus none, or whether it's a big advantage to have a v high level of classical ballet by 18. It looks as though my daughter will have been doing from around age 12 2 x weekly classes at her school plus perhaps a private lesson, and an hour or so weekly at associates. I think I am going to go with this arrangement now and hope it works out, as it seems to suit us. 

 

[taxi4ballet]

Achieving a very high level of ballet probably isn't necessary - althought maybe to get to around Intermediate level by 18 would be useful.

 

More important is good teaching, core strength, and solid, ingrained clean technique. Because if you can use your body correctly, then you can ask it to do (safely and without injuring yourself) anything that a contemporary teacher or choreographer might ask of you.

[Dancing unicorn]

Totally agree Taxi! 💗