Vocational training starting 2023

[Adage21]

Is there anyone who is in the same boat with their DC about to start the journey of applying to vocational training for September 2023? Trying to read previous posts and websites to gain as much info as possible but there is so much to think about! There is a thread for 2022 that was very helpful so thought I would start one for 2023.

[Contretemps]

Hi DanceMum03 - my DC is hoping to embark on this journey for vocational training starting in 2023. Great idea to get a thread going  It certainly can be overwhelming, even with having researched it for a few years now.

[Balletbuds80]

Hi. We are in the position in that my DD wants to go at 11 and us parents are reluctant to send her. So i am in a quandary about what to do. Will she resent us if we hold her back? Her dance school principal has said it would be selfish of us to hold her back. Talk about Mum guilt. We cant afford it for one. Is 11 too young? Only at the weekend we heard about a bad experience but know there are good experiences too. 

[Pixiewoo]

If you can't afford it,  then you can't afford it.  I know there is funding and bursaries etc,  but if you can't afford it,  that answers your question.  

DD is looking at post 18 courses and we've told her she can only apply to those that take the student finance grant and don't ask for another few thousand a year in additional fees ( and yes,  I know we'll need to pay for accommodation etc ) 

In the nicest way, dance teachers don't always live in the real world! I know it's really hard and the guilt you feel for not being able to give your child what they want is great, but sometimes we just can't. 

Can you do an associates class or add some additional training? 

[MamaFrosty]

We weren’t in a position to afford it either last year, plus we didn’t feel that 11 was the right age for our DD to go. She wanted to audition but ultimately understood our reasons (she was incredibly disappointed though!) She’s starting Central associates next month, having a weekly private lesson with her dance teacher and will do Easter/summer intensives. If she’s still keen in a few years we’ll revisit for year 10 when she’s had the chance to grow and develop. If it’s meant to be then it’ll happen, lots of successful dancers don’t go to vocational school at 11. You just have to do what is right for your family at the point of making the decision, everyone’s situation is different and there are so many different routes!

[Farawaydancer]

2 hours ago, Balletbuds80 said:

Hi. We are in the position in that my DD wants to go at 11 and us parents are reluctant to send her. So i am in a quandary about what to do. Will she resent us if we hold her back? Her dance school principal has said it would be selfish of us to hold her back. Talk about Mum guilt. We cant afford it for one. Is 11 too young? Only at the weekend we heard about a bad experience but know there are good experiences too. 

If you can’t afford it then it can’t happen. And it’s very much not up to her teacher! I’d be really cross if my dc’s teachers had said that. 

[glissade]

I think being honest about affordability is vital. I know it's tempting to think about pursuing all sorts of things to make it financially possible ... remortgaging, downsizing etc .... But the reality is that you would be putting an awful amount of pressure on your child to fulfill their dream. How could they tell you if they change their mind a few years down the line when they know how much you have sacrificed for them .....?

 

PS (I know you haven't mentioned doing this - but it's a risk worth thinking about in advance for anyone in your situation)

[Kerfuffle]

Her dance school shouldn’t put you under pressure like this. Perhaps they want to show off her success if she gets in? Try and find as good local training as you can and don’t be scared to move her. If you know you can’t afford vocational then don’t let the principal at her school make you feel guilty. From what I’ve seen the earlier you commit to vocational the higher the stakes are. Which region do you live in? Are there CAT schemes or good associates nearby? 

[Balletbuds80]

Hi. Her dance school hasn't put me under pressure. When i mentioned my DD wanting to go, i said i didn't want her to due to cost and felt she was too young which is when it was said i would be selfish not to let her go if that is what she wants. Its my daughter who is pushing for this. As much as i would love her to be accepted, i just know it is a lot of money. Hats off to anyone who can afford to pay out £2-3k a month in school fees. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Balletbuds80

[sunrise81]

9 minutes ago, Balletbuds80 said:

Hi. Her dance school hasn't put me under pressure. When i mentioned my DD wanting to go, i said i didn't want her to due to cost and felt she was too young which is when it was said i would be selfish not to let her go if that is what she wants. Its my daughter who is pushing for this. As much as i would love her to be accepted, i just know it is a lot of money. Hats off to anyone who can afford to pay out £2-3k a month in school fees. 

You may be eligible for MDS funding. I was always driven by my DD.......she wanted to go, and with the funding we are able to afford it. It's amazing how much petrol and parking added up to when transporting her to various lessons, so was not much more to send her to vocational school. 

[Balletbuds80]

2 hours ago, sunrise81 said:

You may be eligible for MDS funding. I was always driven by my DD.......she wanted to go, and with the funding we are able to afford it. It's amazing how much petrol and parking added up to when transporting her to various lessons, so was not much more to send her to vocational school. 

Thank you. I guess i need to work it all out. Petrol is where most of my money is going at the moment. Plus gas and and electric so i guess one less child to feed, keep warm, entertain and ferry about! 

[sunrise81]

7 minutes ago, Balletbuds80 said:

Thank you. I guess i need to work it all out. Petrol is where most of my money is going at the moment. Plus gas and and electric so i guess one less child to feed, keep warm, entertain and ferry about! 

Use the fee calculator on either Elmhurst or RBS website.......quite accurate tbh. When I added up cost of lessons at her local school, along with JA fees and CAT fees, along with the petrol and parking in Leeds, it was eye opening!!!

Edited August 16, 2022 by sunrise81

[glowlight]

Whatever your reasons for not wanting your child to go away at 11, you are not being selfish.  You have to do what is right for both your dd and the rest of your family.

 

If you really can't afford it, it would be more cruel to let her audition and then have to tell her that she can't go if she was successful in getting a place.

 

If it's a case of you can afford it with funding, and you would be prepared to let her go if she was successful, then you would have to go into the process with the clear understanding that if she didn't get funding she can't go.  Even with funding there are a lot of additional expenses....mind you it's not cheap to get good quality dance training if she stays at home.  

 

I would suggest you research all the options, all the different vocational schools and all your options for training locally with a good associates scheme and then you will be better armed to make the decision.

 

And I don't think she will resent you if your reasoning is rational, especially if you agree that she can try when she is older if she still wants to.

 

 

[DVDfan]

"You are being selfish" is one of the nastiest things that can be said to anyone. It's a nebulous accusation, almost impossible to disprove, which is why bullies are fond of it. 

However it sounds to me as if your DD's dance teacher might have misunderstood you when you said you were worried about cost, and might have thought you meant 'don't want to spend money' rather than 'do not have the money to spend'. 

Forget it - if the money isn't there, it isn't, decision made. If in your judgement, your DD is not ready/won't be suited by going to boarding school, then she isn't, decision made. 

The only input of any value from the dance teacher is her opinion of your DD's level of ability, and possibly if she has wide enough knowledge, which schools/associate schemes might suit best.

[balletbean]

On 16/08/2022 at 16:28, Balletbuds80 said:

Thank you. I guess i need to work it all out. Petrol is where most of my money is going at the moment. Plus gas and and electric so i guess one less child to feed, keep warm, entertain and ferry about! 

Good luck as it’s not easy at all. I’ve learnt so much over the years.
Be also mindful, of which I’m sure you will but it’s the hidden costs that also soon mount up. 
From health insurance, travel, show tickets/excursions ie school trips etc. 

The potential impact on the other siblings (if there are any) and also your financial ability to support their dreams and aspirations. 
I’ve been fortunate that despite having 4 children they somehow spread their aspirations out much to the relief of my bank manager 😅. Does nothing for the blood pressure though. 

[Balletbuds80]

I think i know deep down that i am just not ready for this to happen right now and we will probably wait a few years. She is part of a great dance school and also does a weekly associate course. 
Apologies if i offended anyone with my original post asking is 11 too young? It is a question i have asked myself for my DD and us as a family. I totally appreciate it will be exactly the right time for some DC.
Yes there is the cost element. We would make changes to make it work as i am sure many do. We may still go down the route of auditioning to see what happens and make our final decision on the results. Good luck to you all. 

[Lifeafterballet]

29 minutes ago, Balletbuds80 said:

I think i know deep down that i am just not ready for this to happen right now and we will probably wait a few years. She is part of a great dance school and also does a weekly associate course. 
Apologies if i offended anyone with my original post asking is 11 too young? It is a question i have asked myself for my DD and us as a family. I totally appreciate it will be exactly the right time for some DC.
Yes there is the cost element. We would make changes to make it work as i am sure many do. We may still go down the route of auditioning to see what happens and make our final decision on the results. Good luck to you all. 

In our experience 11 is too young for a hundred reasons I could write a book on 😢

We had two children at the same vocational school, one started at 11 and the other at 17. We now would have held onto our daughter til later. 

[Farawaydancer]

2 hours ago, Balletbuds80 said:

I think i know deep down that i am just not ready for this to happen right now and we will probably wait a few years. She is part of a great dance school and also does a weekly associate course. 
Apologies if i offended anyone with my original post asking is 11 too young? It is a question i have asked myself for my DD and us as a family. I totally appreciate it will be exactly the right time for some DC.
Yes there is the cost element. We would make changes to make it work as i am sure many do. We may still go down the route of auditioning to see what happens and make our final decision on the results. Good luck to you all. 

That’s an answer that is individual for each child, family and local circumstances. One of my dc ideally would have gone later, but he wouldn’t have still been dancing at all had he gone to a local school, we just don’t have access to suitable training locally. My other dc was absolutely ready to go at 11 and is thriving in a vocational (and boarding) environment. 

[Boys_can_dance]

We were in the same position- both high earners, but 6 (adult) kids, and a potential huge contribution to any UK ballet school for our youngest. We moved lock, stock and barrel to Germany, where DS has been training happily the last 4 years ( entering 5th), at €150/month, this year no fee due to private scholarship from a local sponsoring organization ( not applied for, complete surprise). We haven’t looked back. 
Even boarding, Germany is way cheaper. We chose Hamburg, as the school , both admin and teachers, is in the majority English or English speaking, and the local Grammar School they cooperate with has a language unit where non German speakers will learn the language. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Boys_can_dance

[Lena]

25 minutes ago, Boys_can_dance said:

We were in the same position- both high earners, but 6 (adult) kids, and a potential huge contribution to any UK ballet school for our youngest. We moved lock, stock and barrel to Germany, where DS has been training happily the last 4 years ( entering 5th), at €150/month, this year no fee due to private scholarship from a local sponsoring organization ( not applied for, complete surprise). We haven’t looked back. 
Even boarding, Germany is way cheaper. We chose Hamburg, as the school , both admin and teachers, is in the majority English or English speaking, and the local Grammar School they cooperate with has a language unit where non German speakers will learn the language. 

Hi Boys_can_dance, this is super interesting, thinking about a similar move for upper school in 2 year’s time. May I ask which schools you considered/applied for? Did you go visit them? I am finding many of their websites not very informative (esp. Neumeier & Berlin Staatsballett). 

[Lena]

2 minutes ago, Lena said:

Hi Boys_can_dance, this is super interesting, thinking about a similar move for upper school in 2 year’s time. May I ask which schools you considered/applied for? Did you go visit them? I am finding many of their websites not very informative (esp. Neumeier & Berlin Staatsballett). 

Very glad the move worked out well for you and your family! X

[Tiaramum]

Vocational training has to be right for the individual child. My own daughter was more than ready for it but still suffered the odd pang of home sickness, going from her own room to a shared dorm, dealing with different personalities. It has and still is a rollercoaster of emotions both for the child and for the parents. We've sacrificed holidays, day trips, decorating the house etc to fund the dance life. I work 3 jobs, my partner works 2. Are we aware this may go nowhere? Yes. We offer her the chance to stop every time shes home BUT she just loves what she is doing. Even through the turmoil of auditioning, assessments, finding a new school she has remained focused and upbeat. We remind her how lucky she is but never make her feel guilty about what we are doing to allow her to live her best life. 

You know your child the best - can they cope with independent living? Been away from home? If yes and you can find a way to afford it go for it, if not look at what else is on offer - associates, open classes, dancenhance, the performance platform. Even though she is away we have more quality time together now and no matter what happens in the future our daughter has had a great time on the whole, met some amazing life long friends, had the opportunity to meet her heros, danced in incredible studios, made her more independent and more mature. 

[Peanut68]

Not to sound flippant, but over the many years of the highs & lows of boarding DC….

I used to say that the good & - even more so - the bad experiences will give them great stories to tell their Grandchildren!!

Boy do they have plenty of stories…..!!!😱🤣

[Adagio123]

Hi. Does anyone know when the auditions are usually held for vocational schools? I know they can be subject to change, but would like to have a bit of an idea if anyone can enlighten us?

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Adagio123 and welcome to the Forum!

[MissEmily]

@Adagio123They started in November and final auditions ended at the end of March. If you have any questions about the process at Elmhurst, Moorland, RBS, Tring or YDA I should be able to answer them and would be glad to.

[TJK]

Hi everyone,

 

OK, I'm new.... with lots of questions! My daughter is now Year 11, and about to apply for VT starting 2023. Two pressing issues;

 

1. Her current ballet school has just stopped offering Advanced F classes due to lack of numbers, and I am scrambling to fill in the gaps in her training. She is getting one class, but needs more support. On a waiting list at RAD - any other suggestions in London? Thanks.

 

2. What are Vocational training institutions looking for in a 16 yr old applicant? What should she be doing NOW to increase her chances of getting in?

 

Thanks SO much

[Farawaydancer]

2 minutes ago, TJK said:

Hi everyone,

 

OK, I'm new.... with lots of questions! My daughter is now Year 11, and about to apply for VT starting 2023. Two pressing issues;

 

1. Her current ballet school has just stopped offering Advanced F classes due to lack of numbers, and I am scrambling to fill in the gaps in her training. She is getting one class, but needs more support. On a waiting list at RAD - any other suggestions in London? Thanks.

 

2. What are Vocational training institutions looking for in a 16 yr old applicant? What should she be doing NOW to increase her chances of getting in?

 

Thanks SO much

If you’re London based you have lots of options but I would contact Emma Northmore and see which ABA/BBA classes were suitable. 

[TJK]

I am so grateful for this tip. I have not encountered thiese classes before, so am delighted. Thanks very much.

[Adagio123]

On 08/09/2022 at 19:59, MissEmily said:

@Adagio123They started in November and final auditions ended at the end of March. If you have any questions about the process at Elmhurst, Moorland, RBS, Tring or YDA I should be able to answer them and would be glad to.

Thank you. 

[Ballerina_girl]

Wondering if anyone can help, on the Elmhurst picture requirements it has two categories for photo requirements one says all students and summer school and one says Year 9 onwards. If auditioning as a current year 8 to try for year 9 entry do you fall under the first category or year 9 onwards? Not sure if it’s classed as current year or year your auditioning for. Thanks 

[Balletbuds80]

On 12/09/2022 at 22:34, Ballerina_girl said:

Wondering if anyone can help, on the Elmhurst picture requirements it has two categories for photo requirements one says all students and summer school and one says Year 9 onwards. If auditioning as a current year 8 to try for year 9 entry do you fall under the first category or year 9 onwards? Not sure if it’s classed as current year or year your auditioning for. Thanks 

I would say it would be the year group you are auditioning for. The current year 6’s are auditioning for a year 7 place so would follow those guidelines

[Boys_can_dance]

On 30/08/2022 at 08:34, Lena said:

Hi Boys_can_dance, this is super interesting, thinking about a similar move for upper school in 2 year’s time. May I ask which schools you considered/applied for? Did you go visit them? I am finding many of their websites not very informative (esp. Neumeier & Berlin Staatsballett). 

Sorry, missed this. DS spent a year in Munich first, but it didn’t suit him, the style was very Russian dominated and strict, with some bullying by other boys about lack of German etc, and the teachers basically saying they couldn’t do much, as they couldn’t be there all the time. They’ve recently started to adress both issues, but I think it may take a while. 
Berlin, im not sure. They’ve just changed the entire school management and a lot of the teachers after a massive scandal about teachers bullying and/or overworking students, bad leadership, lack of pastoral care, favouritism with neglect of the not quite so good pupils. DS is now approaching senior school, but as of now I’m not prepared to consider either school again. 
Pallucca in Dresden I don’t know too much about, other than them having a higher amount of “other” dance styles, so more Allrounders. Dresden, however , has a not insignificant problem with the extreme right/xenophobia, you need to be clear about that if moving there
Hamburg suits us well, it’s tolerant and caring, makes allowances for DS ADHD. Solid grounding in classical ballet with a large amount of contemporary ( bcs Neumeier), but very little Modern and Character. But Neumeier is retiring summer 2023, so nobody knows who comes next and what that will mean to the school.
The other school that has a good reputation with no scandal attached and a stable leadership ( in that case, Russian educated Polish, I think) is John Cranko in Stuttgart. I know however nothing at all about it. 
if I was you, I’d also consider Kopenhagen. 
None of the German schools have an open day for potential applicants. Hamburg has the ‘Theaternacht’, where the public can come and see everyone train, but that’s just been. 
Best of luck. 
 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Boys_can_dance
Misspelled