NotadanceMa Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 15 hours ago, Sim said: And yet you can buy tickets to the ROH that cost much less than any Premier League football match (and tens of thousands of members of the public can afford this every week, and to travel around to away matches), or just about every cinema in London. I would love to go to a few football matches each season, but at £40-50 a pop for high-up seats, I can see two or four ballets (stalls circle standing) for the price of one football match. Likewise West End theatres...a decent seat in any of them will set you back between £60-£100. Yes some of the seat prices are ridiculous at the ROH next season, and in an ideal world there would be many more affordable ones, but compared to the events/venues mentioned above it is hardly 'elitist' when you can get in for less than £15...something you can no longer do at most WE theatres or cinemas or PL football grounds. I can afford to go to the ROH (because I stand or take a cheap seat) but not the theatre and nor a football match. Which is the elitist one? This is always offered up as a defence. Oh but footballers pay, oh but football tickets and yes they are expensive however it is a different conversation, and it is not the same. And no football is not elitist. I do love the delicate nuanced defence of the ticket prices hike and ticket prices per se that ROH offers, it’s like a defence of the Emperor’s New Clothes. A defence against elitism and exclusivity is not ‘I can stand, I can buy a cheap ticket,’ it’s why you or anyone should have to. ROH, I checked, ticket prices overall are the most expensive in the world compared to other same type venues in the arts (not football). No debate, no argument, no discussion changes what this represents for me and always has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said: ROH, I checked, ticket prices overall are the most expensive in the world compared to other same type venues in the arts (not football). NYCB prices for all shows in NYC (mixed bills and full lengths) have a top price of $173 and a bottom price of $38 (and the $38 tickets have a dismal view). The other price bands are $133, $100 and $70. To get anything like the view from the best ROH standing tickets, you'd have to pay at least $100. [This is based on the prices shown to build a subscription package and so doesn't include the fourth ring.] La Boheme next season at the Met: prices between $37 and $460. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said: NYCB prices for all shows in NYC (mixed bills and full lengths) have a top price of $173 and a bottom price of $38 (and the $38 tickets have a dismal view). The other price bands are $133, $100 and $70. To get anything like the view from the best ROH standing tickets, you'd have to pay at least $100. [This is based on the prices shown to build a subscription package and so doesn't include the fourth ring.] La Boheme next season at the Met: prices between $37 and $460. just to be fair, and to compare apples to apples (unless you did already, if so apologies) adjusted for today's exchange rate of $1.20/£ (just about the best it's been in the 30 years I have been going to the UK, usually closer to $1.30 and using xe.com for calculations) $173 - £143.50 $100 - £83 $38 - £31.5 Edited July 25, 2022 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, oncnp said: just to be fair, and to compare apples to apples (unless you did already, if so apologies) adjusted for today's exchange rate of $1.20/£ (just about the best it's been in the 30 years I have been going to the UK) $173 - £143.50 $100 - £83 $38 - £31.5 Thanks, I did take that into account. Still, NYCB is more expensive (at the top end) than all RB shows this Autumn and Winter other than Sleeping Beauty and Nutcracker (and with the latter, it's not much of a difference) and significantly more expensive at the bottom end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Top price for Swan Lake at the Bolshoi is RUR 15,000 (at today's FX rates, that's a few pennies below £215). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said: Thanks, I did take that into account. Still, NYCB is more expensive (at the top end) than all RB shows this Autumn and Winter other than Sleeping Beauty and Nutcracker (and with the latter, it's not much of a difference) and significantly more expensive at the bottom end. With no government subsidies. We're rather poor at supporting the arts in the US. and as you noted these are subscription prices. The ROH used to offer a discount when they had packages as I recall. The general sale for NYCB isn't until next month. Those are the prices that should be compared, in my opinion. That said, I think you are probably right. Edited July 25, 2022 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, oncnp said: With no government subsidies. We're rather poor at supporting the arts in the US. I was responding to the following comment: "ROH, I checked, ticket prices overall are the most expensive in the world compared to other same type venues in the arts (not football)." Although you may have identified a reason for the differential, that statement is clearly incorrect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said: NYCB prices for all shows in NYC (mixed bills and full lengths) have a top price of $173 and a bottom price of $38 (and the $38 tickets have a dismal view). Thanks very much BBB for including the picture with binoculars from the ROH back Amphi. Quite agree the view is a happy one. Wonder though about your statement of the 'dismal view' for NYCB at the Koch with the $38 tickets. My subscription (a flex one with all $38 tickets) is on the 2nd Ring and I will show my seat view from there. I can vouch for it being an accurate picture. I do not here have a head in front of me. I realise this is not the optimum - but then neither is the price. Still, I must confess I have never thought of it as 'dismal'. I actually find it quite agreeable. Wonder too what others here might think in terms of relative value. I would be curious. Perhaps I just need to recalculate my determinations. Edited July 25, 2022 by Bruce Wall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 It would be interesting to see the breakdown of prices, it feels like a high proportion of seats are now over £100 and a very low proportion are under £50 (all restricted view). For me it comes back to the public funding that if that is their ticket price they need to introduce more schemes to ensure it doesn’t become elitist. It’s ok having last minute cheap tickets but those living further away are then not able to access advance tickets for public transport. Or heaven forbid they could venture outside of London to give performances! I don’t personally think the RB was poor value going back 5 years but 70% increase and £110 for 4 rows back in the amphi, £150 for sides of the stalls is expensive by many standards? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Thanks Bruce. I hadn't realised the seats in that band came quite that far round but, for me, there's still a lot of the stage not visible - everything is, of course, personal choice! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said: Thanks very much BBB for including the picture with binoculars from the ROH back Amphi. Quite agree the view is a happy one. Wonder though about your statement of the 'dismal view' for NYCB at the Koch with the $38 tickets. My subscription (a flex one with all $38 tickets) is on the 2nd Ring and I will show my seat view from there. I can vouch for it being an accurate picture. I do not here have a head in front of me. I realise this is not the optimum - but then neither is the price. Still, I must confess I have never thought of it as 'dismal'. I actually find it quite agreeable. Wonder too what others here might think in terms of relative value. I would be curious. Perhaps I just need to recalculate my determinations. For giggles, here is what £30 currently buys for Meyerling (21 Oct performance with possibly better seats going on sale later this week) Edited July 25, 2022 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 £30 also buys you this for Mayerling. Clear view of the full stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said: £30 also buys you this for Mayerling. Clear view of the full stage. with many heads in front of you....so possibly not a clear view if you are short😀 again, apples v. apples. Original post stated no heads in front. Edited July 25, 2022 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, oncnp said: with many heads in front of you....so possibly not a clear view if you are short😀 again, apples v. apples. Original post stated no heads in front. I've sat in the ROH amphi many times (often in row U so even further back than row R, which is where the seat is for that picture). I am 5'4" and have never had a problem with heads in front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 These are £58 and £94 for Mayerling. They’re both restricted view tickets and tbh I wouldn’t be happy! I’ve sat in that section and it does cut off part of the stage. The pricing does also seem quite inconsistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) Closer to home, I've got the Paris Opera Ballet pricing for 22/23 in front of me: Mayerling at the Garnier is between 27 and 165 euros (vs £7 to £135) Swan Lake at the Bastille is - if I ignore the NYE gala - between 18 and 165 euros (vs the expected £9 to £170 for Sleeping Beauty) Dante Project at the Garnier ranges from 23 to 121 euros (vs £5 to £115 for Woolf Works) and so on. Accepting that the low end ticket prices at ROH are either standing places or not very abundant, I don't think there's much difference between the two. Edited July 25, 2022 by Lizbie1 typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 You can have heads in front of you no matter how much you pay. That's one of the reasons I like standing. Some kind people often offer me an empty seat in the stalls circle where I stand. Unless it's in row A I politely decline because the standing view is unencumbered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 And I should have mentioned that POB is very heavily subsidised! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I have just been looking at a few random West End theatre ticket prices. There doesn't seem to be much available this week for less than £56 in the theatres I checked. I know quite a few people (myself included) who don't go to the theatre much anymore because of the prices. It is the same on Broadway in NY. I couldn't believe the prices last time I was there. The Premier League (there is a clue in the name...premier) has also priced out many of its traditional adherents. But hey, that's not elitist. Only the ROH is accused of elitism. Football is apparently not elitist. I am not happy with the price increases at the ROH either. I can't imagine that anyone is. But I am sure they are doing it for sound economic reasons, much as it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I don't think they are increasing prices because they intend to rake in loads of profit. But as I haven't asked (or heard) anybody in the know what is going on, I won't speculate. The ROH does seem to be having a bit of a problem communicating with their customers these days. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Sim said: You can have heads in front of you no matter how much you pay. That's one of the reasons I like standing. Some kind people often offer me an empty seat in the stalls circle where I stand. Unless it's in row A I politely decline because the standing view is unencumbered. Of course. My point was that the two views are not comparable. The front row of the ROH amphi would, in my opinion of course, be the comparable view (no chance of obstruction) and that is certainly not £30. Anyway, I do agree with the original thought that the ROH is probably not the most expansive ballet tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, Sim said: I The ROH does seem to be having a bit of a problem communicating with their customers these days. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Perregrino Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, NotadanceMa said: This is always offered up as a defence. Oh but footballers pay, oh but football tickets and yes they are expensive however it is a different conversation, and it is not the same. And no football is not elitist. I do love the delicate nuanced defence of the ticket prices hike and ticket prices per se that ROH offers, it’s like a defence of the Emperor’s New Clothes. A defence against elitism and exclusivity is not ‘I can stand, I can buy a cheap ticket,’ it’s why you or anyone should have to. ROH, I checked, ticket prices overall are the most expensive in the world compared to other same type venues in the arts (not football). No debate, no argument, no discussion changes what this represents for me and always has. here’s the OED definition of elitist. Personally I can’t see how this can be applied to ballet as an art form nor to the ROH as an institution. /eɪˈliːtɪst/, /ɪˈliːtɪst/ organizing a system, society, etc. so that only a few people (= an elite) have power or influence 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, Sim said: I have just been looking at a few random West End theatre ticket prices. There doesn't seem to be much available this week for less than £56 in the theatres I checked. I'm surprised you are unaware of this >> https://www.todaytix.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, postie said: I'm surprised you are unaware of this >> https://www.todaytix.com/ Why are you surprised? Is it well known? Thanks for posting this link…I will certainly be having a look at what’s available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, oncnp said: with many heads in front of you....so possibly not a clear view if you are short😀 again, apples v. apples. Original post stated no heads in front. the rake in the amphi is precipitous - so if you are in middle (the first few rows at the sides may have forward leaners which cause problems) most heads would be at knee level. I have only once had a problem standing, with a Too-Tall Jones sitting in front of me, and even then his head only clipped the very front of the stage, so survivable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 54 minutes ago, PeterS said: here’s the OED definition of elitist. Personally I can’t see how this can be applied to ballet as an art form nor to the ROH as an institution. /eɪˈliːtɪst/, /ɪˈliːtɪst/ organizing a system, society, etc. so that only a few people (= an elite) have power or influence I think it depends on which dictionary you refer to. Cambridge English dictionary: someone who believes that some things should be controlled or ownedonly by the richest or best educatedpeople: organized for the good of a few peoplewho have special interests or abilities: which may be more pertinent to the poster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I know this has moved on to ticket prices now but BBB I’m interested in the photograph taken from Row U in the Amphi. Certainly not taken with an iPhone….my Balcony piccies with iPhone plus small zoom don’t give anywhere near that degree of clarity!! Even with my distance glasses on the dancers wouldn’t look as detailed as that from SO far back in the Amphi. So what did you do to get that picture? Im sure a good pair of binoculars during performance might give you that detail of course ….so did you adjust the zoom on your camera to try to match the binocular view? As this view would only be intermittent. Personally I can’t be bothered with binoculars so have to sit somewhere where get a reasonable view without and works with my distance glasses. In the Amphi that’s about the first six rows max for me! I would definitely rather stand but last year I only managed ONCE to get a standing ticket on public booking day (though didn’t always book by 9am on that day) I did manage to get a couple of standing eventually from this wonderful Forum but that’s probably not open to most people who attend ROH. I don’t know what the answer is but do think the ROH should try to keep Amphi tickets at least to under £100 ….even if this means charging more for some Stalls and Grand Circle tickets as this is more traditionally wear the more wealthy ( whether that interested in ballet or opera or not) tend to sit. Probably not a popular view but the less wealthy deserve reasonably good seats (like front rows of Amphi say) just as much. It’s difficult to compare ROH with many other ballet theatres as don’t have opera and full time orchestra to support. I’m glad Sadlers Wells for example can provide cheaper seating but often it’s recorded music when you go to see productions there and the same at the Coli!! If you believe in the training of athletes to Olympic level in Sport then it’s not elitist to believe in training dancers who have the ability to the best level possible and this comes at a cost in the end. But it should not be at the cost of starting to exclude large numbers of lovers of the Art …as then it starts to move into elitist territory in my view. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 48 minutes ago, Sim said: Why are you surprised? Is it well known? Thanks for posting this link…I will certainly be having a look at what’s available. It's incorporated in every West End theatre ticketing model I know of and has been for years. Many rely on it as their only option now. Better to download the phone app than the web page because you then have the option of daily 'Rush' tickets, which are always Stalls, often near the front, usually £25 or under (even the ROH has a weekly Rush) >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TodayTix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, postie said: daily 'Rush' tickets, which are always Stalls, often near the front, usually £25 or under I wouldn't say that. I've been in row R of the Dominion and the penultimate row of the circle in the Phoenix. Different theatres have different policies as to where the rush tickets are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I've experienced what you describe with 'papering' sites though not with this app. I'm not one for West End musicals so perhaps that's why .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 When Chicago was last on at the Phoenix, they didn't have an official day seats policy. I turned up at the box office when they were opening and politely enquired about day seats. The nice man said they didn't do day seats. I said, I could walk round to TKTS and get a ticket there but wouldn't it be easier for him to just do me a deal and save me the walk and the booking fee? I ended up in the second row of the stalls for (IIRC) £30 and with a rose at the end from Velma Kelly for good measure. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, postie said: Better to download the phone app than the web page because you then have the option of daily 'Rush' tickets, which are always Stalls, often near the front, usually £25 or under (even the ROH has a weekly Rush) >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TodayTix You're not saying the ROH uses TodayTix, are you, just that they do Friday Rush? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 That's right. ROH has its own separate Rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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