BBC Young Dancer 2022

[alison]

In anticipation of there being something to discuss about the above (which starts on BBC4 tonight at 7 pm), I'm starting a thread

[Two Pigeons]

My initial view is consistent with so many similar events on the BBC.  If you want to do well don't bother with purely classical ballet.  It just isn't what the judges want.

 

Overall, the basic idea is spread far too thinly amongst the competing disciplines.

[AnneMarriott]

I found it difficult to distinguish what some of the completing disciplines actually are, apart from tap dancing, Bharatanatyam and classical ballet - and even in the latter case the contestant that was put through performed her own choreography with a distinctly "contemporary" flavour.  The other styles all merged into one for me and I couldn't imagine wanting to spend an evening watching a whole programme of any of them.  Since I only actually liked one of the successful dancers in this first round I don't think I'll be following the rest of the programmes.

[Angela Essex]

I thought the girl doing the Indian dancing that got through into the next round was amazing - she said she also did ballet and modern. I’m looking forward to watching her, but I’m disappointed that the 2 classical ballet dancers (who were both beautiful dancers imo) didn’t get through. The male ballet dancer was so good as was Ai the other classical ballet dancer and I can’t believe they didn’t get through. The whole thing seemed focused on more contemporary styles which seemed unfair on those 2 ballet dancers as they were head and shoulders above the other candidates imo. 

[zxDaveM]

seemed to me that it was more important to have an emotive backstory (to do the 'journey' angle) than to be a great dancer. Of course, we didn't get to see an awful lot of the non-successful solos, or much of the interraction sessions, so perhaps I'm judging it too harshly. But a couple of them that caught my eye didn't get through and I'd have bet the house on at least 2 that made it getting there, because of their backstory than me liking what they did.

[AnneMarriott]

4 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

seemed to me that it was more important to have an emotive backstory (to do the 'journey' angle) than to be a great dancer. 

My thoughts exactly!

[bridiem]

I didn't watch this, but (as with other similar programmes) I don't think that there should be any 'backstory' for the competitors. Once someone has won, some background could be given and information about how this will further their plans/career; but until then, giving irrelevant info about the dancers (which presumably the judges also see/know) is, to use a legal word, prejudicial. The fact that backstory always is given means that these programmes are not actually competitions but manipulated entertainment. If people watching are not sufficiently interested in dancing to watch a competition based solely on the quality of the dancing, then don't put on the programme.  

(Besides which, I think that judging completely different types of dancing against each other is nonsensical.)

Edited April 19, 2022 by bridiem
Sentence added

[Pas de Quatre]

Absolutely spot on bridiem!

[Angela Essex]

5 hours ago, bridiem said:

I didn't watch this, but (as with other similar programmes) I don't think that there should be any 'backstory' for the competitors. Once someone has won, some background could be given and information about how this will further their plans/career; but until then, giving irrelevant info about the dancers (which presumably the judges also see/know) is, to use a legal word, prejudicial. The fact that backstory always is given means that these programmes are not actually competitions but manipulated entertainment. If people watching are not sufficiently interested in dancing to watch a competition based solely on the quality of the dancing, then don't put on the programme.  

(Besides which, I think that judging completely different types of dancing against each other is nonsensical.)

This 💯 

[capybara]

I quite liked the format which yielded winners in different categories before they were pitched against one another.

 

Both Rhys Antoni Yeomans and Chloe Kenneally, now of ENB, achieved early recognition as the Classical Ballet winners. This year, there are 10 finalists, including one ballet dancer who danced her own neo classical/modern piece, and the ‘workshop’ (Episode 2) looks set to be focused on other disciplines.

[Jan McNulty]

3 hours ago, capybara said:

I quite liked the format which yielded winners in different categories before they were pitched against one another.

 

 

Yes, I preferred that format too!

[taxi4ballet]

The entire thing seems to be structured in such a way as to disadvantage ballet dancers. Most classical dances are based around repertoire and known variations, whereas other styles actively encourage the dancers' own choreography, individuality and expression - they are expected to devise their own work all the time as far as I can see. Classical ballet really isn't like that, it's much more structured, and few dancers in vocational training spend much time choreographing their own work. They are too busy learning classical variations.

 

To be honest, I don't know why they don't just call the programme 'BBC young contemporary dancer of the year'.

[alison]

It's been rather that way ever since the thing started.

 

I watched the first programme last night, and just found the whole thing really frustrating.  I'd have liked to have seen more than what felt like 10 seconds of each individual dancer ...  And the workshop was boring.  Is this what they do these days on talent shows on the other channels?  I never watch them, so I wouldn't know.

[dancefanatic]

21 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

The entire thing seems to be structured in such a way as to disadvantage ballet dancers. Most classical dances are based around repertoire and known variations, whereas other styles actively encourage the dancers' own choreography, individuality and expression - they are expected to devise their own work all the time as far as I can see. Classical ballet really isn't like that, it's much more structured, and few dancers in vocational training spend much time choreographing their own work. They are too busy learning classical variations.

 

To be honest, I don't know why they don't just call the programme 'BBC young contemporary dancer of the year'.

I agree.  It also seems to be unfairly against both the Asian and Street dancers too this year.  I preferred the previous format, even though the ballet students didn't win the overall final, but really really don't like the changes.  Nor did I like the comment that "ballet dancers never choreograph their own material" as previous ballet dancers from the same school as this year's ballet student did their own choreography and performed it well.  In fact, all students at the school in question are encouraged to choreograph material from Y7 upwards and there is an internal competition each year.  Admittedly, mostly their peers perform their pieces but that doesn't mean the student choreographer can't perform their material.  Personally, I feel the AD of the show this year is actually quite ignorant of some of the genres and the show seems quite 'dumbed down' if you know what I mean!

[akh]

49 minutes ago, dancefanatic said:

I agree.  It also seems to be unfairly against both the Asian and Street dancers too this year.  I preferred the previous format, even though the ballet students didn't win the overall final, but really really don't like the changes.  Nor did I like the comment that "ballet dancers never choreograph their own material" as previous ballet dancers from the same school as this year's ballet student did their own choreography and performed it well.  In fact, all students at the school in question are encouraged to choreograph material from Y7 upwards and there is an internal competition each year.  Admittedly, mostly their peers perform their pieces but that doesn't mean the student choreographer can't perform their material.  Personally, I feel the AD of the show this year is actually quite ignorant of some of the genres and the show seems quite 'dumbed down' if you know what I mean!

 

Certainly completely disagree with the comment  "ballet dancers never choreograph their own material" . I know of numerous occasions where this has been done. I definitely preferred the previous format. Finding this a little tedious to watch.

[alison]

Only "a little"?

[taxi4ballet]

Classical musicians in an orchestra don't generally compose or perform their own pieces, and they certainly don't make it up as they go along. The whole point of their career is that they perform the works of classical composers to the highest standard. That is what they spent decades training for, and it's what they are paid to do. Same goes for classically trained ballet dancers. 

[bridiem]

3 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

Classical musicians in an orchestra don't generally compose or perform their own pieces, and they certainly don't make it up as they go along. The whole point of their career is that they perform the works of classical composers to the highest standard. That is what they spent decades training for, and it's what they are paid to do. Same goes for classically trained ballet dancers. 

 

Exactly. It's not Young Choreographer of the Year is it? Real choreographic talent is actually very rare and doesn't involve just doing what you like and what you think suits you. I suppose it's not enough to be an excellent dancer now - you have to be 'creative' too. Pah.

[akh]

6 hours ago, alison said:

Only "a little"?

Well a lot really! Trying to be diplomatic.

[alison]

  

3 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

BBC Young Dancer was a huge disappointment. I had previously watched it every year, and while I thought it was unfair and rather ignorant to make dancers of classical ballet, contemporary dance, traditional Indian dance etc compete against each other - you don’t see BBC Young Musician having musicians from jazz, pop, rock, folk competing against each other and in fact  in 2018 an entire new competition was created just for jazz - at least they got a chance to perform on tv to get performing experience, show potential impresarios and dance company bosses what they can do, and to kickstart their careers.

 

Now this show is....some odd mishmash of a reality show. It’s like a mixture of Project Runway and SkyArts Landscape Artist of the Year but with dance, and not done half as satisfactorily as those two other talent shows. The dancers are still very good, but I don’t see the point of making them attempt to dance in a genre in which they have had no training, and I spent too much time trying to search for actual stage  performances among all the backstory filming. A performer’s life story should not be relevant to the marks they receive. 

 

Also, if the judges are going to mask up for filming, either do it properly, or don’t do it all if they are confident that they have followed vaccination protocols and health advice correctly, but don’t have masks hanging on the chin or under the nose. They’re being filmed for national tv, not popping down to the pub with friends.

 

Top marks to all the dancers for their talent and hard work, but a big F for fail to the programme makers for wasting our licence fee funds and the dancers’ time. 

 

[Emeralds]

1 minute ago, alison said:

  

 

Sorry I put it in the wrong place, Alison- I thought there had been a thread but couldn’t find it after a few weeks. 😊 It was more of a comparison of that show versus the other tv offerings we have on iplayer or on the rest of tv.

 

Compared to what used to be on BBC and ITV in the past (pre 2001), what we get nowadays is awful considering the licence fee and number of ads we have to wait and wade through. I wasn’t around to have watched Margaret Dale’s ballet programmes or the brilliant Magic of Dance (presented by Fonteyn) and Ballet for All (presented by Peter Brunson) when they were first aired on tv, but I saw them when a relative recorded them off tv abroad when they aired as reruns. Anyone who hasn’t seen them....unfortunately, nobody has as yet put the Ballet for All episodes on Youtube (sob), but several episodes of The Magic of Dance are on YouTube. 

 

Going back to the competition....maybe the BBC needs to do a new competition. I don’t see why we can’t have a separate competition for each genre- there are potentially large audiences for each if done properly, but not this reality mish mash, which I will no longer watch. Or maybe YAGP could be persuaded to add a British city to their list of European centres. The year that the popular First Position documentary was filmed (featured competitors Michaela Prince and Aran Bell went on to win scholarships/prizes and have successful careers), the actual Grand Prix winner (who wasn’t among the competitors filmed) was none other than.....William Bracewell! 👏

[zxDaveM]

I'm obviously waiting in vain for a classical ballet choreographer to create something to challenge them.

[Shade]

Just watched the ballerina from Elmhurst- very entertaining 

[alison]

Oh dear, I'd forgotten this was on, and it's on BBC2, isn't it, so I bet my recorder won't record it.  Can't say I'm terribly upset, considering what I've seen of it so far.

[Shade]

The duet with the ballerina and street dancer was good - I was impressed with the young man

[Shade]

Just caught a couple of glimpses of Hirano - was he a mentor?

[Peanut68]

Have not watched any of the ‘rounds’ (& suspect I would not have particularly warmed to them as, whilst I can see it having some merit in making all dance in other competitors styles & forms, surely the main point of this competition is to excel in your own discipline?) but caught (most of) the final. I must say I enjoyed it more than I was expecting; especially seeing the duets/trios & group dance & thought the choreographers of these pieces really did a great job of creating a harmonious link between the dancers whilst retaining their own styles & genres. 
I did think the winner a worthy choice (though had ear-marked 3 others too as possible winners!) 

Not really a fan of a competition trying to encompass all dance forms in one - were there elimination rounds in various genres (eg. Prelims in Classical/Contemporary/Street etc ? 

[Peanut68]

2 hours ago, Shade said:

Just caught a couple of glimpses of Hirano - was he a mentor?

A Finals Judge -not sure if involved judging earlier stages or in mentoring as didn’t see any earlier programmes? 

[capybara]

12 hours ago, Shade said:

Just caught a couple of glimpses of Hirano - was he a mentor?

A judge. He wasn’t involved in the early stages. Begins Cao (former ENB Principal) was the classical ballet ‘representative’ earlier on.

[HopelessMummy]

I personally thought the final was excellent. Really good they had tap dance represented for the first time. The group dance at the end was the highlight for me as was the street and ballet duet. Well done to the winner. Very well deserved

[Kerfuffle]

I thought the final was very good but I would have liked to hear the opinions of the judges and their deliberations. It felt like a  very abrupt ending with no explanation as to how they came to their decision. The diversity of dance styles was good although perhaps the contemporary dancers had the natural advantage. The Rambert students were very strong and you could see that they have excellent facility in ballet - which made the attempts by the ballet girl seem a bit limited up until the final duet  - I thought that the dance  with the animation street dancer was very effective. I felt she was at a disadvantage being restricted by her pointes when she must have had a much wider training than that at Elmhurst. 

[zxDaveM]

On 08/05/2022 at 16:58, HopelessMummy said:

I personally thought the final was excellent. Really good they had tap dance represented for the first time. The group dance at the end was the highlight for me as was the street and ballet duet. Well done to the winner. Very well deserved

 

agreed about the finale group dance - and actually, I liked al the duets/trios as well.

Had I been judging, I'd have picked Anna; she stood out head and shoulders for me. Though the winner, Adhya, was also on my shortlist (with Hannah and Olivia)